U.S. Politics

[AceofKnaves]

And everyone who betrayed us should be remembered for it as well

This is why I have my zero-tolerance policy for MAGA and MAGA-enablers and -apologists. I don’t just cut them out of my life, I keep notes on their bullshit so that years from now when they try to lie or downplay their role in all this, I’ll be like “no, motherfucker, I have receipts.” No one gets to just slink back into the shadows after this (assuming there is an “after this”) and pretend they weren’t complicit.

Never forgive, never forget.

 

[joshsquash729]

Yeah, and that's why I've very much shifted into the "matching energy" mindset in recent months. Regardless of what side of the aisle (but is especially true for MAGA)- if you're gonna come at me or people that I love and care about with hate and vitriol, I'm gonna step to the occasion. I think we're well past that "kill 'em with kindness" thing- there are situations where that applies, sure, but in a broad sense, the time for that is long gone and we're in damage control mode. I do believe that most of these idiots are harmless (even if their words and actions are not), and are just jumping on the bandwagon because they saw so-and-so get their way. They're nothing but schoolyard bullies, and all it takes is one person standing up and refusing to be bullied by them to set them straight. Obviously, it's important to pick and choose your fight- some of these weirdos are truly unhinged and could hurt you- but most are just flailing lunatics who aren't used to being told "no". If I stand up to them and they still don't have the wherewithal to look within and see where they went wrong, that's not on me, but at least I can say I did my part. Part of me hates that it's come to this- I certainly don't enjoy being mean, even to mean people- but part of me is proud of myself knowing that, despite looking like I'm harmless, I can take action if need be.

That's one of the big things that frustrates me about living in NY. We have that classic "See Something, Say Something" slogan, but so rarely does anyone actually do anything. Can't tell you how many times I've seen something terrible happening and people just walk by like nothing is wrong. There's a pervasive "mind your own business" attitude here, but on the off chance that one person does step up, others are usually quick to follow, but nobody wants to be the first.

I only mention it because I think that's the approach that Democrats need to have going forward. Cut the "when they go low, we go high" BS and do something. Put your money where your mouth is. They're so afraid of being perceived as aggressive that they end up chickening out. How are we supposed to feel like they can stand up and protect us if it comes down to it if they won't even acknowledge blatant lies or take action to prevent atrocities like is currently happening. The difference is knowing there to draw the line- match the energy, fight fire with fire, get down and dirty if you have to, but draw the line when it's become bigger than the topic at hand. If you go down, go down swinging- that's what inspires others to keep the fight going. That's what inspires hope- the feeling that there's a chance. Not giving up and hoping that something will magically come along to change it. Think I've mentioned it before, but my dad used to have a saying that he (supposedly) learned in the army- "One 'Oh, shit' can wipe out ten 'Atta Boys'". Basically- doesn't matter how many good things you do, one mistake can render them all null and void. That's very much the mindset any politician needs to have; obviously we all make mistakes, it's impossible to be perfect, but it's important to take action to make up for that mistake, to ensure the people that you've learned your lesson and won't let it happen again, and to take responsibility even if you weren't directly responsible. Instead, we get idiotic finger pointing and playing Hot Potato with the blame.

That's what's so frustrating about the seeming refusal to welcome any young, progressive folks like David Hogg into the party. Do I agree with all his points or methods? Not necessarily, but he's got the right idea, and he's seen firsthand the consequences of allowing some of these heinous laws and politicians to move forward. These dinosaurs making laws that will effect future generations, while simultaneously ignoring large parts of said generation, will forever infuriate me. Times change, and with them, methods need to change. This is obviously a damn scary time, where people stronger and louder are the ones getting shit done, so acting like the meek, well-behaved way of doing things is still a viable option is not only silly, it's dangerous at this point. As much as I hate the MAGA mindset, I can at least understand from a human perspective why someone who is scared would vote for the person who talks the bigger game (regardless of intent to follow through). If you think your house is being broken into, you're gonna call the cops first, not your best friend. People need assurance in such scary times, as more and more countries do increasingly unstable things, and if those countries should come a-knockin', people want to know that they can be protected, regardless of method. I mean, hell- it's not like we're strangers to the idea of politicians not following through on their promises. I think even if the Democrats talked a big game, regardless of the follow-through, it could drastically up their chances.

I do love AOC and all the other (mostly female, it seems) politicians who aren't afraid to call out bullshit unprompted. Much as I loved (and still love) Tim Walz, there was very much a wink to the audience when he said a lot of the things. A lot of that Dad energy of "See, kids? I can say the thing too." Whereas AOC doesn't care who she's talking to, she doesn't pander, she just knows her stuff and calls it like she sees it. As much as I'd love to think that we could put her forth as a viable candidate, I know better. She's too divisive, even in her own party. There's always gonna be people- mostly men, but some women too- who find her too brash or forward. But even if she's not in the position of power, she's a damn good fighter to have on your team. I hope, as more and more younger, more diverse politicians are slowly voted into office, we can bring more and more of that energy to things.

TLDR- we gotta stop pussyfooting around here. It's nice that folks nowadays are so quick to want to be kind and protect the feelings of others. Definitely more of that, but we also have to be careful not to remove the power of things. Don't be afraid to use certain words if that's the thing that can get the point across. We're stuck in a cycle of abuse, going back to the abusive boyfriend, because the milquetoast next door, while nice, isn't providing peace of mind that he can protect us. It's time to learn from our abuser and use some of their methods against them to ensure they stop hurting us and others. We just have to know when to forego said methods so that we don't become the abusers ourselves (maybe not the most tasteful metaphor, but as a victim of abuse myself, it's one that I relate to).

 

[AceofKnaves]

We just have to know when to forego said methods so that we don't become the abusers ourselves.

This.

Also we must NOT leave any people or group* behind nor throw them to the wolves in the interest of winning our battles. We move forward together, or not at all.

*except MAGA, obviously. They can be thrown all the way under the bus, collectively speaking. Oops, there I go “calling for the deaths of people I disagree with” again!

 

[joshsquash729]

Me and a couple friends were having a talk with a loved one the other day about something going on in their lives- long story short, things are kinda falling apart because they're in a bad mental place that's making it so they can't easily take action or responsibility for their actions. One of my friends used the apt metaphor of a ship captain- it's their responsibility to save the crew in times of distress, even if it means going down with the ship. The captain of the Titanic didn't point fingers at the crew or at the Iceberg as he hurled himself onto a lifeboat, he took responsibility and did what he could to save as many people as he could from what happened under his supervision.

 

[AceofKnaves]

One of my friends used the apt metaphor of a ship captain- it's their responsibility to save the crew in times of distress, even if it means going down with the ship.

Which takes us back to the point that elected officials are our SERVANTS, not our masters.

Like when these MAGA slugs go off with “Trump is YOUR LEADER” I can just fire back with “the fuck he is!” I don’t have a “leader” and I’m never gonna have a “leader”. Frankly, fuck “leaders”. Hierarchies are all bullshit anyway, and made up by fragile dudes afraid of being pushed off their pedestals.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

I took an online poll in 2020 when we had like 18 Democratic candidates running and Biden was in my bottom three (I fully admit to being a Liz Warren guy

I was a Liz Warren guy, too.

As much as I like Warren, I don't think she's a good politician. She's great at lawyering and debating, but her messaging is often muddled and she never bothered becoming a household name. As much as she accomplished in the Senate, she should've been the clear frontrunner in 2020. She's 10 times the Senator that Sanders is, yet people didn't know about her because she's never been good at the popularity contest.

Both she and Sanders were too old, even in 2016, but that's an aside.

My only hope is that none of the morons the Republican party is churning out have the cult of personality to carry on Trump's legacy. I hope Barron is an uncharismatic idiot like his brothers and isn't someone they can groom to be the next Nero. But I also think we're staring down the barrel of a population that is alternately meaner and/or easier to bamboozle so the next guy won't even need Trump's level of smarmy charisma to pull them in

We've dug a deep hole in this country. As you said, we have masked agents of the state kidnapping high school students. The hole is so deep that you can barely see the light anymore. That said, there is hope. The Republican Party was in dire straits in 2015: Democrats won total cultural victory, the GOP had won one popular vote since 1988, and Donald Trump was their nominee for president. Many people, myself included, were saying the Republican Party was dying a slow and painful death.

A decade on, things have flipped. The GOP controls the trifecta, tech bros run the world, they won their first popular vote since 2004, and Donald Trump is synonymous with American politics. Things flip fast.

In 2028, we know things are going to be grim. Trump will be exceedingly unpopular. The GOP will likely face major economic and social backlash. I think people are already waking up to how brutal and inhumane deportation is. Imagine how it'll look when we spend untold billions on "detention centers." Harris couldn't get far enough away from Biden, and that was in a booming economy. If Democrats do their jobs, you'll be able to say the same of the GOP with Trump in 2028.

Things look bad for Democrats. With the current leadership, they'll stay bad. But I think a change election is coming in 2026. There are going to be a lot of notable Democrats out of work in 2027. I think this is going to be a 2010 Tea Party-style election for Democrats.

As for 2028, the Democratic bench is deep. I have a lot easier time seeing Pritzker, AOC, or Buttigieg winning a national election than any of the psychopaths on the Republican side.

Republican policies are already unpopular. They always are. They'll be worse when the country sees what they actually look like after Project 2025.

As sad and scary as it is, these things ebb and flow. Voters were proud to live in a compassionate country during Obama's presidency. Then they wanted a fake tough guy who punched down. Trump is special because he's great on TV, knows how to manipulate the media, and is a talismanic symbol of wealth and power for a particular sect of Americans. None of those things are replicable for the GOP, just as none of Obama's qualities have been replicable for the Democrats.

Yeah, I agree. I think the fact that we couldn't elect a white woman with a beloved (mostly) former president husband that oversaw the greatest economy in many of our lifetimes should have probably told us we weren't ready for a female president at all (let alone a non-white one) and running a female candidate right now - specifically one that doesn't already have massive support - is virtue-signalling political suicide.

I disagree.

For a long time, I thought Donald Trump got lucky to win in 2016. And to be fair, he did. He won three states by like 20k votes after Hillary's emails dominated media coverage for a full month. But he's also a JFK-style messianic figure to low-propensity voters.

I said somewhere on this site that I didn't think Clinton, Biden, or Harris were bad candidates. They were perfectly average candidates. Against an average GOP nominee, they probably all have a good chance to win an election. In retrospect, it's clear that Trump is not that.

After W destroyed Kerry in 2004, I guarantee you no one thought a Black man named Barack Hussein Obama would solve all of our problems. Some candidates are larger than life. JFK, Obama, and now Trump. It happens. I don't think we can assume that the country won't vote for a Black woman because they didn't one time, especially against Donald Trump, American Kryptonite.

Every time he opens his mouth I lose more respect for humanity in general, because he's a charisma black hole and yet we've got grown men generating sexed-up AI art of him riding tanks into battle with a gun in one hand and a flag in the other.

The Atlantic wrote a piece about how the MAGA aesthetic is AI slop.

I think Seth Moulton is a fucking moron. But he's a white straight veteran who went to Harvard, from a money town, who speaks privileged white guy and I keep thinking just run the stuffed suit and try to get the train back on the tracks before we're an unfixable hole in the ground.

Maybe this is wishcasting, but I think this brand of politician is coming to an end. At least for now.

The Josh Shapiro types don't have a prayer at becoming the Democratic nominee in 2028. For one, he's another lawyer in a suit. For two, the Democratic base is fucking furious and won't accept a Diet Republican as nominee in 2028. At least, I don't think they will.

A couple months ago, Kat Abughazaleh announced her bid for Congress. I watched her campaign launch video the day it came out. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since.

https://bsky.app/profile/katmabu.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3ll4uhykpa22i

She's a 26-year-old Media Matters alum and TikToker. Her campaign site features this quote:

"I'm running for Congress because the same old shit isn't working — and it won't work to defeat Trump and Musk's agenda."

I think Americans, like, all of us, want someone authentic who cares more for their constituents than special interests. Obviously some of us are better at deducing who that might be than others, but the point stands.

As much as I'd love to think that we could put her forth as a viable candidate, I know better. She's too divisive, even in her own party.

I hate to pick on a single sentence in your excellent post, but I don't think this is true. Normie Dems love AOC. Listen to this reception at the DNC:

 

[Damien]

I said somewhere on this site that I didn't think Clinton, Biden, or Harris were bad candidates. They were perfectly average candidates.

But what does that mean in a world where people are almost never -excited- about their political choices? Especially on the Dem site lately. There's also the X factor of race, creed, gender. Obama wasn't an average candidate and he won. If he had been just average would the country have voted for a black man? Hard to say.
Also, I'd argue that Clinton and Harris were average candidates for someone like you or me that looks at 'on paper' issues. What are their policies. What are they likely to do when in office. How do they speak. What is their current political record. Etc etc. Even to some Dem voters - particularly older or rural ones, 'woman' or 'black woman' is going to be just as important.
It's like the misogynistic comments of "she's a 10, but she's a bitch so she's a 6." An average candidate becomes below average if there's one thing voters don't like about them. Even if that thing is their own dumbass sexism or racism.

Clinton, Biden, and Harris were all bad candidates because they were average candidates with a handicap.

I don't think we can assume that the country won't vote for a Black woman because they didn't one time

To be clear; it's not that I don't think the country will vote for a black woman. It's that I don't think the country will vote for any of the black women we are in a position to put forward. As I was getting at above - if you want to get over the sexism/racism handicap, you have to put forward an exceptional candidate - not an average one. We don't have any exceptional candidates available to us in the non-white and female categories right now, in my opinion.

A couple months ago, Kat Abughazaleh announced her bid for Congress. I watched her campaign launch video the day it came out. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since.

I love Kat - have for quite a long time now. I am SO hopeful that her brand of politics resonates and she wins. That would open so many doors for people to see it's possible to put forward real people as Democratic candidates. I've been saying since 2015 that the Dems need people that talk like people, as much as they need people that care what happens to other people. Both are necessary.
One of Trump's biggest bolsters in his first run was people said he was a straight-shooter that 'said it like it is' and all that. Then you have establishment Dems that talk like fucking AI campaign ads all the time and no one cares.

Normie Dems love AOC. Listen to this reception at the DNC:

I think the problem with AOC is that she is a member of the DNC. She won't run independent, and her own party has been trying to stand on her head pretty much since she was elected. AOC can't even get on certain committees because of establishment 'gotta let the elderly have it first' bullshit. No way the DNC puts her up for president even if she wanted it. There's like at least a dozen people in the DNC that need to feed themselves a bullet and get out of the way before the Democrats can make any real and lasting progress.

 

[joshsquash729]

I hate to pick on a single sentence in your excellent post, but I don't think this is true. Normie Dems love AOC. Listen to this reception at the DNC:

That was lovely to see! I apprecaite you sharing. Don't get me wrong- I'd love to be wrong. The bad thing about the internet and social media and algorithms and all that is that sometimes, whether you want it or not, certain messages get lost and others get bolstered, so maybe I'm just seeing the wrong stuff. I certainly like to think that if she were chosen as the candidate against something like what we have now, certain people could just swallow their pride and take one for the team to get us out of this hellhole.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

But what does that mean in a world where people are almost never -excited- about their political choices? Especially on the Dem site lately.

I don't think it means much. People love narratives. The center loves the "both sides are insane" or "both candidates are bad" rhetoric. We've seen it on this forum. JFK, Obama, Trump, Reagan, etc. are generational candidates because they don't come along very often.

People liked Obama because he was charismatic. I bet Hillary Clinton would've made a better president, but she didn't excite people. She was put in the "bad candidate" category. The trouble with national elections is people who don't pay attention to the news tune in for two weeks in October every four years. It's all vibes. If a candidate doesn't capture the national attention (Obama, Trump), it's a 50/50 crapshoot. Before Trump, the last Republican to excite people was Reagan. These things are impossible to quantify, much less bottle and resell.

I don't think an exciting candidate = fixing our problems. Prior to Trump, most of our problems could be traced back to an unrepresentative government. Now it's an unrepresentative government plus fascist creep. A great candidate would help win in 2028, but I'm not worried about that. People are going to be sick of Republicans by the time Trump leaves.

There's also the X factor of race, creed, gender. Obama wasn't an average candidate and he won. If he had been just average would the country have voted for a black man? Hard to say.

Probably not, but that's my point. As alien as it is to those of us in this thread, Trump is an exceptional candidate.

(The frustrating thing is how short our collective memories are. Trump couldn't beat Biden in 2020 because he was a terrible president for four years. He got a sympathy bump from COVID (a sizable one, I bet) and still lost. Four years on, half the country somehow forgot that.)

To be clear; it's not that I don't think the country will vote for a black woman. It's that I don't think the country will vote for any of the black women we are in a position to put forward. As I was getting at above - if you want to get over the sexism/racism handicap, you have to put forward an exceptional candidate - not an average one. We don't have any exceptional candidates available to us in the non-white and female categories right now, in my opinion.

People underrate AOC. She has national name recognition and a well-known schtick. Her proximity to Bernie Sanders will only help her.

Jasmine Crockett is a little inexperienced, but she has the stuff, too.

A lot of people like Wes Moore.

The bench is deeper than people realize. I'm fairly confident we won't get a Biden this time around.

I think 2028 will be defined by a Democrat with fire. Much like 2008, we need to capitalize on the country's anger and passion. Unlike 2008, we need a fighter, not a diplomat. I don't think milquetoast Dems or those who bargained with Trump and Trumpism (Whitmer and Newsom) have a prayer.

I love Kat - have for quite a long time now. I am SO hopeful that her brand of politics resonates and she wins. That would open so many doors for people to see it's possible to put forward real people as Democratic candidates. I've been saying since 2015 that the Dems need people that talk like people, as much as they need people that care what happens to other people. Both are necessary.

They need to shut off the consultant class. Stop listening to those people. Stop focus-group testing every slogan and policy.

Tim Walz was a breath of fresh air because he said things the consultants didn't like. Then the Democratic machine got hold of him and told him to get on message.

I think the problem with AOC is that she is a member of the DNC. She won't run independent, and her own party has been trying to stand on her head pretty much since she was elected. AOC can't even get on certain committees because of establishment 'gotta let the elderly have it first' bullshit. No way the DNC puts her up for president even if she wanted it. There's like at least a dozen people in the DNC that need to feed themselves a bullet and get out of the way before the Democrats can make any real and lasting progress.

As I've said 20 times, I think this ends in 2026. Someone is finally primarying Steny Hoyer. Someone should do the same for Jim Clyburn and Nancy Pelosi. Kat is another example. She's running for a seat held by an 81-year-old. Her campaign forced the incumbent, Jan Schakowsky, to retire. There are signs that the gerontocracy is coming to an end. Three Democrats have died in office since January. They won't be alive to see the impact of their legislation, let alone the next Congress. It has to end.

 

[PanchaMaestro]

I think the Iraq war is exactly why Obama won. A rare moment of national shame at the hubris and disaster that was the Iraq War. With the world economy collapsing it was clear a Dem was winning in 08 the fact it was Obama was a moment of national penance. Probably our last.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

We love to see it.

 

[Ru1977]

It's barely a firecracker, 'lon. I've seen so many pictures of Trump and Epstein together, it would be a massive shock if he WASN'T in there.

 

[akajomiha]

I love that Musk thinks Trump being in the Epstein files would be a bombshell.

 

[Ru1977]

Right, his people don't care.

 

[Justice]

This was always the eventual end result when these two psychopaths joined forces.