TTRPGs & D&D

[JakeEkiss]

Man I'm just restating everyone else's good takes today. Feel like I'm still waking up from yesterday's food coma.

 

[Damien]

I think this gets at the heart of something that is often unspoken. Whether or not it's correct, social structures put DMs in a position of authority by default. While I don't think it's a DM's job to police a table or whatever (everyone should be policing themselves), I do think they're often in the best position to do it. And I do think the best DMs know this and treat the position that way. Like, you're the one initiating the game at the table, you are an authority there whether that's a comfortable position or not.

To that point, I don't think I've ever met a good DM, like a really good DM, that wasn't comfortable being -in charge- at the table, on some level. I think the AT group is fuckin' solid. We all get along. Our playstyles so far seem to gel pretty well. But we're also buddies, and sometimes we fuck around too much before game time and I've definitely noticed that Doc has a keen ability to casually just be like 'And we're playing now.' A good DM can do stuff like that. We probably take for granted that Doc WILL tell us all to shut up when he's ready to go. It's his game and we respect him, so no one just keeps on yammering once he is in DM-mode.
All good games I've ever been a part of had the same general feel.

 

[JakeEkiss]

To that point, I don't think I've ever met a good DM, like a really good DM, that wasn't comfortable being -in charge- at the table, on some level. I think the AT group is fuckin' solid. We all get along. Our playstyles so far seem to gel pretty well. But we're also buddies, and sometimes we fuck around too much before game time and I've definitely noticed that Doc has a keen ability to casually just be like 'And we're playing now.' A good DM can do stuff like that. We probably take for granted that Doc WILL tell us all to shut up when he's ready to go. It's his game and we respect him, so no one just keeps on yammering once he is in DM-mode.
All good games I've ever been a part of had the same general feel.

Truth.

 

[docsilence]

I also don't think it's the DM's job to rein in the players themselves such as keeping distracted players focused or arbitration disagreements between players. I've read a few articles in my life that describe it as being "your" table, and I hate that.

Those are the groups I give up DMing for, honestly. Getting the story back on track? Sure that's my job. Asking someone to listen when other players are talking or not wander off to smoke up while it's not their turn? I have, and will always, tell players who can't respect each other to go find another table.

I WOULD argue that someone taking on the role of DM has volunteered to also be a little bit of the group babysitter as well.

Yeah, agree, though there's always a non-story component where if someone really needs a babysitter, they're probably going to need a DM soon too cos who wants to do that much hand holding. (The whole "the DM is a player too!")

I run a sporadic game where I was unaware that a solid 3/4 of the players have that tendency to want to info dump on a topic they're hyperfocused on, and I feel TERRIBLE cutting them off, but it only took a few "I would love to discuss the history of Jazz with you but we're playing D&D right now, so save it for post-game" before people stopped info-dumping on, like, where hot sauce came from. (And frequently I'd set them off because I'd make some BIZARRE visual reference that would trigger the hyperfocused discussion...)

But I do actually subscribe to some version of the 'it's YOUR table' argument.

This this. And everyone can and should feel empowered to be like: okay so this isn't my kind of table if so. But the GM generally sets tone. That being said...

Because Critical Role is entertaining passively, some people go into a game thinking they will continue to just be passively entertained. I think those people are clowns, personally.

The problem with people thinking Critical Role means D&D is passive entertainment is WILD, because Critical Role only works because every single player at the table is utterly focused on the game, contributing to the story and gameplay... it is a perfect table because there's nobody phoning it in. It's so strange to me that people watch that and think "I'm going to play this game and the GM will entertain me" because those players are on fire. Same with Dimension 20, Natural Six, NADDPOD... They all have great DMs but they have players DMs would die for.

But we're also buddies, and sometimes we fuck around too much before game time and I've definitely noticed that Doc has a keen ability to casually just be like 'And we're playing now.'

I do appreciate how our table will immediately shift from a political or action figure rant instantly into back on focus for the game. Just need a little "so anyway" to get us there. I do feel lucky that I don't really play with folks who don't recognize a "beep beep, Richie" nudge back to the game, which it seems like a LOT of folks deal with in their games. I think I'm probably pretty lucky in that regard because my games don't last more than 3 hours... if the game is short enough to not always need a bio break, there's less of a chance of veering off into a tangent.

 

[Fletch]

I've never gamed in a post-Critical Role world, but I've definitely experienced that vibe from the Before Times. I've lucked into two, really great, on-the-same-page gaming groups in my life (which was a rare find with all the military transfers) which likely have spoiled me for what I'll accept as policing expectations.

Buuuuut, I'm really glad to hear y'all's online group is meshing together so well. Any chance you guys will post summary logs of your adventures? I'm not looking fore line-by-line with dice rolls, but I like a good after action report.

 

[JakeEkiss]

Buuuuut, I'm really glad to hear y'all's online group is meshing together so well. Any chance you guys will post summary logs of your adventures? I'm not looking fore line-by-line with dice rolls, but I like a good after action report.

We maybe should just for posterity's sake.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

They need to be aware of the difference between players speculating/planning, and players floundering. And they've got to be willing to step in for those cases.

While I don't think the GM is the boss or anything, they do set the tone and manage the table. I'm always trying to usher my players from one scene to the next when they've exhausted their options or are spinning their wheels. We're more likely to stay on track when I do that.

I WOULD argue that someone taking on the role of DM has volunteered to also be a little bit of the group babysitter as well.

Babysitter might be too extreme, but GMs are like kindergarten teachers. Part of it is making sure everyone is playing/engaged/saying their piece. Doc does it for alt and me sometimes. We're more likely to clam up than Damien or Jake. I sometimes go 20 minutes without saying anything. It's not that I'm passive or want to watch what's happening, but you guys do such a good job steering the ship that I rarely feel I'm adding anything. Plus, with my character, I think she'd be reluctant to take charge. I'm sure it's probably the same for alt.

A Dungeon Crawl that can adapt a roguelite system... Like OG Diablo's loop, but Hades Boons. That would be interesting.

I need a narrative hook for the crawl.

I meant to mention this in my last post. I've been noodling on a roguelite megadungeon campaign for a year now. I can't figure out the mechanics.

I also think there's more generally a problem with people that are just checked out in general. The world sucks. Everything sucks. People just want something to distract them, but when they do it they also don't have the mental or emotional energy to even be invested in it. To the point above, what those people really want is to watch a movie or something, but also not be alone.

Yep. To go on my old man rant, I think it's the result of social media and short-form video. People don't know how to be bored anymore.

 

[JakeEkiss]

I can't figure out the mechanics.

Spill it. We can workshop this if you want.

 

[altcunningham]

I think this gets at the heart of something that is often unspoken. Whether or not it's correct, social structures put DMs in a position of authority by default. While I don't think it's a DM's job to police a table or whatever (everyone should be policing themselves), I do think they're often in the best position to do it. And I do think the best DMs know this and treat the position that way. Like, you're the one initiating the game at the table, you are an authority there whether that's a comfortable position or not.

I have headed and been invited to groups where people put that onus on the DM.

You're the DM, so you decide the schedule.
You decide the plan.
You decide the snacks.
You take attendance and decide the minimum to run.

As DM and Player I always flipped that back to the group. It's a group. I'm not your dad.

And to bring in the point about wanting a movie, there are people where even that amount of participation screens them right out.

 

[altcunningham]

I meant to mention this in my last post. I've been noodling on a roguelite megadungeon campaign for a year now. I can't figure out the mechanics.

I would love to test pilot.

In a purely 5e mindset, the thought I had would be basic 2024 start up, then every floor or checkpoint you have the Hades decisions.

Choose a feat. Any feat. It's only for the run.
Up your stats. When you roll for stats you can get ridiculous anyway.
Magic items.
Getting spells well ahead of level and ignoring the requirement.

And then you could have a pool of basic magic items to start with back from base. And currencies to invest in potions and other things.

In my head, being able to boost stats and get some ridiculous feats or feat combos well ahead of normal play is balanced out by encounters and players probably getting a little bit more risk reward, which means having 20 con and 20 strength with pole arm fighting might actually be the death of you with overconfidence.

An entirely original system would be better, but this was my immediate thought exercise.

Triple post:

About wanting to avoid to take charge. Years ago I started walking on eggshells with that role in character and as a person in certain groups because I have had backlash from players here and there who just take issue with anyone else making decisions or even just organizing. Even when I have a focus with story or scene, I like to toss the potato to other players. The ensemble is the point of a game like this to me.

And that's that one of the reasons I believe D&D it's as theater has led some people down the wrong path.

 

[JakeEkiss]

You're the DM, so you decide the schedule.
You decide the plan.
You decide the snacks.
You take attendance and decide the minimum to run.

Oh yeah, nah, those would all be on the list of things I think do not fall under the DM's need to determine (at least not as a default). Generally speaking, the DM brings the game part of the game, everything else is at worst a group decision. Weirdly scheduling is easier now than it was any time in my 30s, and I think that's because everyone I play with lives their lives on their calendars now and are at the age where we've all realized if we don't block out time to do stuff it won't ever happen.

Snacks, heh, what even is in person gaming anymore!? When I was in a position to do that it was 100% on somebody else when I was DMing. Minimum to run I think kinda falls on the DM just because they know what's been prepped for the evening. But I don't mind taking consensus if I'm ready to run either way.

 

[altcunningham]

I treat it like any gathering.

What time are we meeting. You're going to be 30 minutes late? How does everyone else feel about just starting? How late are we going? Do we have hard stops?

I think I mentioned it earlier but one of the best times I had was at the paid game Long-Term campaign because when your money was tied up in the seat, nobody was bullshitting or wasting time.

 

[docsilence]

Oh man, the single thing anyone can do to make a DM's life easier is taking over scheduling. I had one group fall apart because other people tried to do the sdheduling and were like "HOW DO I GET THEM TO COMMIT TO A DAY"

We maybe should just for posterity's sake.

I was actually gonna ask if anyone has notes from last time cos I was improvising a lot and need to refresh my memory. I've been recording some of my games lately so I can go back and listen and it's weirdly helpful for monthly games.

 

[altcunningham]

Oh man, the single thing anyone can do to make a DM's life easier is taking over scheduling. I had one group fall apart because other people tried to do the sdheduling and were like "HOW DO I GET THEM TO COMMIT TO A DAY"


I was actually gonna ask if anyone has notes from last time cos I was improvising a lot and need to refresh my memory. I've been recording some of my games lately so I can go back and listen and it's weirdly helpful for monthly games.

I got an eidetic memory and some scratchings. I can recap most of it

 

[TheSameIdiot]

Spill it. We can workshop this if you want.

Honestly, I never got that far with it. What's the loop?

In a roguelite, you fight random enemies in a random room. It's procedurally generated. You accumulate some resource (XP, material, whatever) with your runs.

In a TTRPG, what does that look like? In my head it was:

Base camp > fight > hard fight > lose
Base camp to level up? > fight > hard fight > lose
Base camp > fight > hard fight > find a +1 sword > lose

I think alt cracked it.

In a purely 5e mindset, the thought I had would be basic 2024 start up, then every floor or checkpoint you have the Hades decisions.

Choose a feat. Any feat. It's only for the run.
Up your stats. When you roll for stats you can get ridiculous anyway.
Magic items.
Getting spells well ahead of level and ignoring the requirement.

And then you could have a pool of basic magic items to start with back from base. And currencies to invest in potions and other things.

In my head, being able to boost stats and get some ridiculous feats or feat combos well ahead of normal play is balanced out by encounters and players probably getting a little bit more risk reward, which means having 20 con and 20 strength with pole arm fighting might actually be the death of you with overconfidence.

In some roguelites, you start with a particular weapon and/or skill augmentation. I hadn't considered a random player loadout for gameplay variety.

You could really have some fun with it if you let the players customize their class, subclass, or feats. Then they get another "boon" after each successful fight. In Hades, a god gifts you with their strength. Zeus, for instance, might give you a chain lightning attack. Every time you hit an enemy, lightning hits four more foes for 10 damage each. You could liberally steal from Hades with different god boons. They'd translate well enough to a TTRPG.

I think you could also steal the ally rooms from Hades and intersperse the dungeon with return NPCs to break up the combat.

You may have solved it for me.

I need a narrative hook for the crawl.

These were stolen/adapted from ideas I heard on YouTube at some point, but...

• The party starts as level 20 heroes in the final fight of their adventure. They defeat the BBEG, sealing his soul in a magical item. Generations later, a group of fanatics free the BBEG. The party, now playing low-level heroes descended from the original heroes (?), must work their way up to killing the BBEG once more. To expedite their leveling, they seek an old NPC who knows the secret to fast leveling. Once they find him, he reveals that there's a magic tower they can climb to level quickly. Each floor of the tower is a portal to another plane. Once they complete the plane, they gain a level. They finish at level 20 and confront the BBEG again.
  • I thought about combining this with another campaign idea of mine. Instead of descending from the original heroes, they are the original heroes. To seal the BBEG's soul away, they must relinquish their powers. Now the same characters go from godlike level 20 heroes to level 1 mortals.
• A chaotic entity started a ritual to break the barriers between the planes of existence. The effects were not as grand as the entity had hoped, but the barriers are deteriorating. This has led to firestorms, heavier rains, and changes in gravitational pull as the other planes seep through. Monsters break through from a local mine, and players must investigate a mega-dungeon to stop the flow of monsters, end the entity’s ritual, and restore the barriers.

About wanting to avoid to take charge. Years ago I started walking on eggshells with that role in character and as a person in certain groups because I have had backlash from players here and there who just take issue with anyone else making decisions or even just organizing. Even when I have a focus with story or scene, I like to toss the potato to other players. The ensemble is the point of a game like this to me.

That happened to me at work several years ago. In a meeting, my manager assigned some work. I asked, "Wouldn't it be better if we broke it up X way instead?" It wasn't a challenge or a confrontation. It wasn't even a suggestion. It was a genuine question.

I was called into HR for insubordination and refusal to do my job. I was put on a 30-day PIP. In an attempt to finish the job, my manager gave me an impossible pile of work to finish in 30 days or I'd be let go. In the 30 most stressful days of my life, I got it all done.

Long story short, I was unwilling to speak in meetings after that. I believe that job, and the terrible job that followed, gave me PTSD.
Sorry for the trauma dump, but I get where you're coming from.