Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

Chooch555 said:
I don't think Reed's far off from the comics at all. That said, he's appeared in several thousand stories at this point so you probably imprint on the first stories you read and are drawn to that take.
Click to expand...
Right, that's the other thing. I get that characters have certain attitudes and such that will become tied to them, so you kinda know what to expect, but how many writers have written for him over the years? And I imagine even long, well received runs aren't always going to completely portray the same version of him as other long, well received runs.
 
I mean like the movie or not but to suggest that wasn't an "accurate" representation if Reed is pretty insane. They've either read like 15 FF Ulitmate comics or have poor reading skills. The movie hits some of the most major and key Reed character points. His belief he can solve anything and his anxiety when he can't. His guilt he feels towards Ben. How his cold calculating analytical mind draws him into conflict with the members of his own family and together they center his genius. Both the responsibility and the burden he bears towards his "gift". These are such fundamental Reed things that the movie nails. The "think the horrible things" speech was so spot on. I mean of course his character is multifaceted and has a few points one of 57 writers might have highlighted more in the 2735 comic books he's appeared in that they may not have touched on in the 2 hour film with 5 other major characters.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if it's Reed they don't like or Pedro. He is very much not a blank slate in what he brings to that role and maybe that's what they don't like.

I think he ended up being the best of the main four in the film, but I can totally see the movie working better with a different Reed.

Agatha is the D+ show I'm mostly like to rewatch (twice already), followed by She-Hulk and probably Hawkeye - the plotting was weird and in no universe will I ever believe Clint worked for Kingpin - but Hawkeye got the characters right. I have not revisited Moon Knight, WBN or Echo at all, Loki S1 only before S2, Wingmen to see if it really was that bad before BNW/Tbolts (it was), WandaVision I partially rewatched, the new DD has almost zero rewatchability for me whereas I've watched the entire OG run twice - it's all about spending time with the characters and very few of these shows hit that good spot of characters I want to spend time with in good stories.

Ms. Marvel's big mistake WAS the time travel. Her one throwaway line about it in The Marvels almost justified it, but Kamala's laissez-faire attitude towards travelling in time unexpectedly, and perhaps that was Iman's not playing it as well as it needed, but that plot just broke that show for me.
 
Ru1977 said:
One of the supervisors at work is a big comic book fan. His parents owned a comic store so he literally grew up with comics. He told me he finally saw Fantastic Four and he hated it; felt they completely messed up Reed and he was nothing like the comic character. Then today another coworker told me she went to see it with her boyfriend and his friends or something, and they all hated it (while she thought it was great), but her boyfriend and his friends are all comic book fans. Apparently he said "I would have walked out if I could."
Click to expand...

They must not have seen the same Fantastic Four movie I did. I started reading the FF when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were on the book. I have read a lot, and I mean a LOT of FF comics and I can tell you the director and writers of this film nailed it.

I mean, c'mon, man. Marvel characters are really not that hard to figure out.

The Avengers are a formal organization with a mission and a charter ("To face the foes no single superhero can withstand!").

The X-Men are a school and a training academy that teaches young mutants to use their powers for good ("Sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them!").

The Fantastic Four are a team of scientists and explorers, but first and foremost they're a family. Their love for each other is what keeps them together. ("Mr. Fantastic! The Thing! The Invisible Woman! The Human Torch! Together they are the Fantastic Four! And the world will never again be the same!")

You know, these concepts are so simple and so basic that you wonder how the hell anyone can get them wrong. Well, I've seen four Fantastic Four movies before this one and each one of them ... got it wrong. Matt Shakman's film was the first one to get it right. Ben, Sue, Johnny and yes, Reed were all spot on. Exactly as I've always read them. The characters were written perfectly. Sue went toe to toe with Galactus to save her son. GALACTUS, FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD! She's a mother. Of course she's going to fight like a Lioness to get her son back. What this movie said to me is that a family's love for each other and their bond is still the most powerful force in the Universe.

Boom. Thank you, Marvel Studios. It's taken 66 years, but I can finally say I've seen a great Fantastic Four movie.

Now if James Gunn and DC Studios can just get Justice League right ...
 
Schizm said:
Ms. Marvel's big mistake WAS the time travel.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I think the show really started to fall apart after the trip to Pakistan, but not for that reason. I really enjoyed how the show gave me a view into a Pakistani family and the journey back to the Partition served both the story and that insight.

So I like it conceptually, but the way the show took a real nosedive afterward makes it a little more "-in theory."
 
I loved the Hawkeye series. I usually enjoy the more grounded street level Marvel stuff, especially in comics. Loved the interaction between Barton and Bishop, Bishop and Belova. This series is what got me to love Florence’s Belova, just so charming.

I still haven’t watched Agatha! I’ve been trying to get through Andor season 2 and I can’t keep my eyes open four episodes in. Maybe after that, ill get around to Agatha.
 
I really enjoyed Agatha. It was a fun romp, good spooky season watch.

I don’t think I’ve outright hated any of the D+ shows, but some felt more like homework. The two I disliked most were Secret Invasion and Falcon and Winter Soldier. They’re the two I don’t remember as well because I was a little bored watching them. And I dropped off of What If. I’ve always liked the concept of What If more than the result, even with the books. I haven’t watched the newest stuff (Ironheart, the Wakanda show), but I might. There’s just so much stuff fighting for my attention that I basically need to hear good things before diving in because life is too short.
 
The only issue I had with Reed was that we were told he was smart but maybe didn't see it enough in action/on the fly - about the closest we got was when the Surfer was chasing them and he figured out the plan to get her sucked into the gravity well - that was Reed's intellect saving the day in an action sequence.

Pedro was fine but I'm not sure he convinced me that Reed was "thinking" enough, if that makes sense? Its hard to do as an actor, play that moment when a really smart person is processing new information and solving an issue in real time - you can sort of see them detach from the world just for a bit - but it can be done. Reed should always be that second or two ahead of everyone else, like when the Surfer started to destroy the teleportation towers, Reed needed to know immediately while the others were still in shock what that meant and how he had to move on to plan B.

Having said that, I think they got Reed as a character overall quite well. But in comparison I think they showed Tony Stark's engineering genius a bit better than Reed's overall genius.
 
Reed is a bit of a tricky character, at least in my mind. There really is no "right" or "wrong", just a matter of what stories you read and what characterization you prefer. I think he's easily someone who can come off as cold and uncaring because he puts logic first, and I'm glad that they touched on that even a bit in the movie. He's a good man with a good heart, but he's not Dr. Strange- he can't see every single outcome. He can think of every outcome, granted, but I think his brain will always prioritize logic over emotion. In the wrong hands, that could easily come off as cold, but Pedro is such a charismatic guy that he can make anything charming. And First Steps is, I think, a movie that leads with emotion at the end of the day. Family, love, sacrifice, being parents, etc. I kinda liked that Reed's views were challenged. I'm sure he'll have more than enough time to lecture in future movies.

I'm sure part of his characterization also stemmed from the fact that it wasn't an origin movie. If it was, and the team was slowly being built up into superheroes, we'd see more of his logic. As such, there's just too much to cram in to an already truncated movie (maybe in some of the cut footage there's a bit more of his genius). Maybe they didn't want to show too much of it because, especially in this day and age, people just want to go to the movies to escape, not be bogged down by jargon. Granted, it's all in how they play it- having his smarty-pants speech be undercut by Johnny or someone making a snide comment could work. That's why I'm excited to see how he plays off other heroes who aren't used to his quirks- I can see some really fun interactions.

And, while I hate to be that guy, I do think there's at least a liiiiiittle bit of that built-in bias with Pedro and just who he is as a person. Again, he's so charismatic to so many different kinds of people that he ends up alienating a lot of people too. Overall, some folks are just getting tired of seeing him in so many projects (which is kind of out of his control- it really comes down to when things get released, which he has no say over). Ladies love him, but he's not every lady's cup of tea. Lots of guys don't like him because not only does he steal women's attention, but he's not the traditional macho masculine guy, even if he can play it pretty well (Joel, for instance). He is, like it or not, at least a little more in touch with his feminine side (it kinda seems like the worst kept secret that he is- or could very well be- gay, and while it's none of my business either way, I know that that puts off some people). There's also the implicit bias of his race. While certainly he can "pass" as a white guy (as silly a concept as that is), he's Hispanic/Latino, which a lot of racists don't like him snatching up roles from white guys, especially if the role he's taking has been traditionally white. And there's that whole ridiculous smear campaign as of late trying to get people to think he's some creep because he's comfortable around women and vice versa. So he's got a lot going against him, but he more than makes up for that in charm.

Anyway. So as not to bog down the conversation with too much heaviness, I think he's a great fit for the character. I'm really looking forward to seeing where he- and the rest of the F4- go from here. I'm also really kinda happy that we don't have a major MCU project (film) for a bit- I really need to get caught up on some of these shows- namely Echo, Daredevil, and Ironheart. I gave up on What If? and don't really feel the need to go back. I'm sure I'll get around to Wakanda, but I don't really feel the need to rush into it (don't even know if I've seen a trailer for it, to be honest). I'm surprised I haven't watched Spidey yet- I used to be all over the Spidey cartoons, but I keep forgetting about this one. I know soon there'll be Wonder Man in there too. Marvel's gotta give me time to catch up!
 
Thanks everyone for weighing in on Reed. Like I said, I'm not super familiar with him from the books, but I did enjoy Pedro's performance and the writing. Johnny and Ben seem almost thankless because they feel like the easiest to get right to me, and they definitely did. But this new movie REALLY got me to love Sue and Reed. Walking out of the theater, we all named someone different as our favorite character, which was pretty cool really. (Mine was Sue. I thought Jessica Alba was fine but this movie really made me appreciate the character to a severe degree.)

Also, one of my daughters named HERBIE as her favorite, so everyone did get represented.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top