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[JakeEkiss]

Post-Schindler’s List (which I love) I kinda get the gooey over-sentimental Americana ick from a lot of Spielberg, I’m the guy who will eagerly shut off Saving Private Ryan as soon as they are done at the beach. Same ick I get from Tom Hanks (who I generally love) playing American Everyguy in a bunch of films post-Forrest Gump. It’s a kind of sentimentalism I don’t relate to, about a kind of America I just don’t believe ever existed. Feels almost like propaganda.

I looooooove de Palma but I don’t give a damn about Scarface, like it’s fine but its place in pop culture history is not something I gravitate to AT ALL and I’m super-icked out whenever it “comes up”. Phantom of the Paradise is where it’s at, man. Oh and The Untouchables is THE best gangster film OF ALL TIME, suck on that Scorsese and also Coppola (whose best film is Bram Stoker’s Dracula).

I think the two valid criticisms of Steven are that his films do not, typically, require the audience to do much work. The scripts tell you what to think and the music tells you what to feel. I think this is definitely true of his work, I just don't think it's as damning a critique as some. Sometimes it's ok to have a story that is exactly what it says on the tin.

The second criticism is the sort of overly sentimental vibes and reverence for times that didn't actually happen. And I think that's largely also accurate. That one I have mixed feelings about. For the parts of his filmography I like most, it's generally a non-issue. And of the later stuff, I think I prefer Fablemans anyway because of how gently it treats people in his past that he could be very unkind to if he wanted. I have a lot of complicated thoughts about that one, but none of them are negative, really.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

I think Scorsese is insufferable and overrated. I know he's good, but he's not FilmGod IMO.

Whoa. Marty is my favorite director by a country mile.

The Wolf of Wall Street, Goodfellas, After Hours, The King of Comedy, Taxi Driver, Killers of the Flower Moon, Raging Bull, and Silence are all masterpieces. I can't name another director with that level of quality output. Even Kubrick only has four movies I'd call masterpieces.

I'd put Gangs of New York, Shutter Island, Hugo, Cape Fear, The Aviator, The Departed, The Color of Money, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Casino, and The Irishman one tier below. They're all better movies than most directors make in a lifetime. The only movie of his that I dislike is Bringing Out the Dead.

Though I have yet to see Flower Moon, assuming it would be heavy and depressing. Did NOT realize it was a comedy.

It's both.

also Coppola (whose best film is Bram Stoker’s Dracula).

That's a scorching hot take.

I think the two valid criticisms of Steven are that his films do not, typically, require the audience to do much work. The scripts tell you what to think and the music tells you what to feel. I think this is definitely true of his work, I just don't think it's as damning a critique as some. Sometimes it's ok to have a story that is exactly what it says on the tin.

Well put. When audiences are very stupid, there's something to be said of ensuring that they cannot misinterpret your film.

The second criticism is the sort of overly sentimental vibes and reverence for times that didn't actually happen. And I think that's largely also accurate. That one I have mixed feelings about. For the parts of his filmography I like most, it's generally a non-issue. And of the later stuff, I think I prefer Fablemans anyway because of how gently it treats people in his past that he could be very unkind to if he wanted. I have a lot of complicated thoughts about that one, but none of them are negative, really.

Spielberg and Scorsese are neck and neck for the best/most accomplished director ever title. I give Marty the edge because of content and consistency. Most of Spielberg's work qualifies as pure escapism. He's also had a rough 21st century. I only go to bat for four of the movies he's made since Saving Private Ryan, which came out nearly three decades ago.

 

[AceofKnaves]

That's a scorching hot take.

And it’s not even my favorite Dracula movie, in fact I think it’s a shit adaptation of the book.

 

[akajomiha]

Spielberg and Scorsese are neck and neck for the best/most accomplished director ever title.

American? Sure. Ever? I'd put Kurosawa, Bergman, Herzog and Tarkovsky above them, but it's all subjective. I don't like to speak in absolute terms.

Oh, and I couldn't even make it through Wolf of Wall Street. I hated it so much.

 

[Ru1977]

Whoa. Marty is my favorite director by a country mile.

He is definitely in my top.... Eh three I would say. But I really love some of his movies and have a hard time not going to them when I can't think of what to watch. Some Scorsese, or Jaws, or the Thing.

The Wolf of Wall Street, Goodfellas, After Hours, The King of Comedy, Taxi Driver, Killers of the Flower Moon, Raging Bull, and Silence are all masterpieces. I can't name another director with that level of quality output. Even Kubrick only has four movies I'd call masterpieces.

Oooooo which four? I still haven't seen Silence, nor Hugo. Wolf of Wall Street I had to see twice before deciding how I felt, but Goodfellas is one of my favorite films of all time. I think Casino is better done, and technically more masterful, but I like Goodfellas more. King of Comedy is difficult to watch but it's sooooooooooooo well done!

I would also put Last Temptation in there. I don't watch that one very often at all, but incredible film to me.

I'd put Gangs of New York, Shutter Island,

I have difficulty with both. I can acknowledge both are well done, and some great performances, especially Gangs, but some of the accents jar me out. Shutter Island, the power went out when we had ten minutes left and I never got back to it, then read the ending and that was probably wrong to do heh.

Hugo,

I still need to see that one too.

Cape Fear, The Aviator,

Neither are high on my list, but like you said, still better than most directors' work.

The Departed,

I feel this is the best on your secondary list. I appreciate the performances and the twists. Still haven't seen the original.

The Color of Money, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore,

I haven't seen either in decades now, since I first got into him and had to watch everything I could. But yes, still really well made. And also, reminds me of how much I loved his book, Scorsese On Scorsese.

Casino,

I really love Casino. Depending on my mood when you ask, it's a solid contender for second or third favorite. Really incredible and beautiful and upsetting film.

and The Irishman

This one is such a difficult one for me. It's his latest that I have seen, and I KNOW it's an amazing film, but yes the CG stuff really really really was too much for me to overcome. Watching him struggle down stairs when supposedly young, I just... I hate that I can't get over that. But so much else about it is amazing and I think it was one of Pesci's greatest performances ever.

one tier below. They're all better movies than most directors make in a lifetime. The only movie of his that I dislike is Bringing Out the Dead.

That's really interesting. But I think I can get it... It's definitely got some things he did differently, and some purposely jarring directing.

Spielberg and Scorsese are neck and neck for the best/most accomplished director ever title.

Which is fascinating because they are sooooo different. Not just in style and content but commercial appeal.

I give Marty the edge because of content and consistency. Most of Spielberg's work qualifies as pure escapism. He's also had a rough 21st century. I only go to bat for four of the movies he's made since Saving Private Ryan, which came out nearly three decades ago.

Yikes but I get it. Again, which four?

 

[Ru1977]

Kurosawa

Yesssssssss!!!!
Yes I love Seven Samurai and it's my favorite, yes I love Yojimbo and Sanjuro, but sometimes Lower Depths is my favorite...

 

[AceofKnaves]

Oh, and I couldn't even make it through Wolf of Wall Street. I hated it so much.

Yeah, I’ve tried and failed to watch it, and hating Leo’s sneering face was honestly not a factor. It’s just . . . fucking yuck, I don’t want to spend any time with those guys, Glengarry Glen Ross has more appealing characters and perspectives.

I do generally really like Scorsese, like I don’t hate him or anything. I think it’s more that his movies tend to be guy movies about guy perspectives, frequently with some swagger, and that’s just not stuff I really can relate to. It’s like reading Hemingway, although I actually DO hate Hemingway.

 

[JakeEkiss]

there's something to be said of ensuring that they cannot misinterpret your film.

I mean, let's not underestimate the real smooth-brains out there. I believe in them. They can and will misinterpret anything.

A streamer I watch made a great analogy about it. When kids are in school and the teacher puts on a cartoon like Dumbo, where there's a scene where Dumbo is getting bullied and it's awful. Every kid in the room thinks they're Dumbo... even the bullies. Everybody thinks of themselves as the underdog.

Some Scorsese, or Jaws, or the Thing.

You got 2 out of 3. Nobody's perfect

I think it’s more that his movies tend to be guy movies about guy perspectives, frequently with some swagger, and that’s just not stuff I really can relate to.

I think it's this for me too. Not that I am wholly against "dudes rock, but at what cost?" movies. I think Heat is brilliant, but I think it's the combo of that and many of his films speaking very specifically to his experiences growing up, which I do not share. I find his stuff interesting, but the topics he's tackling are largely alien to my experience and it puts distance in there.

American? Sure. Ever? I'd put Kurosawa, Bergman, Herzog and Tarkovsky above them, but it's all subjective. I don't like to speak in absolute terms.

More recently I've been a big Bong Joon Ho fan. Got into him through The Host, and then saw Mother, Memories of Murder, Snowpiercer, Parasite. The only two I haven't watched are Okja and his first film. But dang, he's building a strong CV. I'm actually not as big a fan of Snowpiercer as most folks, but Parasite is just flawless.

 

[Ru1977]

Ah damn, Heat is another one!!! Damn, I am really into guy movies? I honestly never realized that. I've never seen any Fast and Furious movies except Tokyo Drift!