Four Horsemen Studios Mythic Legions

Alt said:
One of my favorite Destiny criticisms came from Penny Arcade where they pointed out that all the proper noun bad guys and plot devices they had looked like things you would have scribbled in cool fonts in your Five Star planner in high school.

I think for me there's a difference between big bad workshop giving us a context, while 4H and Vala presumed to be throwing down some sacred canon. Which is interesting because both of those lines just happen to be things most people Army build and customize.
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Yeah, BBWS and Savage Crucible feel like "This is a toyline and these comics and bits of lore exist just to sell the toys and give you a bit of inspiration for your collection", which I like. Vala and the 4H guys seem like they've bought their own spin a bit too hard and think that a large portion of their audience is actually invested in their lore, which I doubt.

docsilence said:
Honestly the lack of real lore was really appealing to me with ML when I first started collecting. I WANT generic fantasy figures. And I complain about them a lot because I think they make bizarrely bad business decisions, but I still like their stuff because I want lore-less goblins, knights, barbarians, and orcs. Right there with ya.
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Yeah it's a thin line to walk between "so generic it's boring" and "so specific it's alienating". As soon as they start throwing around proper names like "Gawww'r'ryych" or some shit I'm out, but even some Savage Crucible stuff like Who-Man and the upcoming snake-men feel slightly too specific for my taste.
 
TheCaptain said:
Yeah, BBWS and Savage Crucible feel like "This is a toyline and these comics and bits of lore exist just to sell the toys and give you a bit of inspiration for your collection", which I like. Vala and the 4H guys seem like they've bought their own spin a bit too hard and think that a large portion of their audience is actually invested in their lore, which I doubt.


Yeah it's a thin line to walk between "so generic it's boring" and "so specific it's alienating". As soon as they start throwing around proper names like "Gawww'r'ryych" or some shit I'm out, but even some Savage Crucible stuff like Who-Man and the upcoming snake-men feel slightly too specific for my taste.
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Who-Man is rough. I bought their Comic Book, and it's fine. I read a lot worse in the 90's. A lot worse. But now that I read it I hope to pick him up at Zolocon this weekend. It was just enough to get me off the fence, and I think that's what good lore should do; get you off the fence and maybe in rare instance get you to cross it.
 
TheCaptain said:
Yeah it's a thin line to walk between "so generic it's boring" and "so specific it's alienating". As soon as they start throwing around proper names like "Gawww'r'ryych" or some shit I'm out, but even some Savage Crucible stuff like Who-Man and the upcoming snake-men feel slightly too specific for my taste.
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Oh, you hit a nerve because I ACTIVELY HATE the name Gawriiich or whatever they called, him, like it makes me viscerally angry, but I kitbashed parts of that figure into two of my favorite Mythic Legions figures so I LIKE the toy, but every time I see that name I see red.

Who-Man's name put me off buying that figure for a while, too. Turns out in hand he's really kind fabulous and I'm happy to have him but I made a "someone farted" face when I saw the name. Actually I was iffy on Ko'Mo from Crucible too because of the lore but picked him up on a whim and he's like, an enchantingly designed figure. Like we've been talking about, the toy tells a story that the creators don't need to.
 
Also, I was skimming the 4H livestream when Jeremy said something like "Yes you CAN play as a vampire, and you DON'T HAVE to join Illythia's Brood!", and "These orcs and skeletons aren't just villains but can actually be playable characters too!" as if it was some huge fucking concession or novel gameplay idea to let you play a humanoid monster with any alignment lmao. This was also when it first struck me that this game is genuinely, unironically set in Mythoss and wasn't just an excuse to make RPG character trope action figures.
 
Dek said:
Who-Man is rough. I bought their Comic Book, and it's fine. I read a lot worse in the 90's. A lot worse. But now that I read it I hope to pick him up at Zolocon this weekend. It was just enough to get me off the fence, and I think that's what good lore should do; get you off the fence and maybe in rare instance get you to cross it.
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Yeah Nin Vilmir's backstory actually intrigued me quite a bit and hyped me up while I was waiting for him to arrive. I don't think I had read it before ordering him during the kickstarter though. Other than that I haven't looked too closely at SC lore, but it seems fine, and I think the "Crucible" battleworld or whatever it is leaves a more open doors for weird shit than Mythoss' generic fantasy setting does.
 
Just to clarify, part of my aversion to the Lore in this discussion is the fact they're using Kickstarter.

I feel like they're a big enough company. If they really had confidence and wanted to do this, they should just be able to fund it and take that risk.

But Kickstarter is so that you can recognize those risks and assess the demand. It is. And what we saw with the video game was that nobody really gave a s*** about the video game as a product. They wanted the cool ass incentive figures.

So that's not really an honest reading of your audience. And I feel like it's the same thing here, and you already see that kerfuffle with this new one that kicks off tomorrow.

And to my mind that makes the point that the lore is really just performative because if they had any faith in it they would try and let that product stand on its own.

That's just my read.
 
I agree that once a company reaches a certain zenith they should knock off the crowdfunding, but to be fair, there's only a couple companies right now in the TTRPG space at all that don't use crowdfunding for new projects, so it may just be that the common sense approach to a TTRPG, assuming this is a good faith effort at a TTRPG and not just a sideways way to sell action figures, is that is, in fact where the audience is.

Even Kobold Press, Free League, MCDM, Shadowdark, Monty Cooke Games, like BIG players in the gaming space can't launch a product without a kickstarter.
 
Buttmunch said:
There are more bundle options available besides those, some just all the figures and no game stuff. Figures are just $30 each (aside from that SDCC Paladin which is $60).
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That sounds better if there was a a bundle of just the figures. From previous kickstarters the all in has always had a discount in the per figure cost so that is why I looked at that one. If there is an all in of just the figures I will need to do my math with that one to see if I want to step into this Kickstarter. I have been cutting way back and honestly none of the figures are screaming most have to me right now so I might finally sit out of a 4H Kickstarter.
 
docsilence said:
Honestly, if you want her, buy it. All we can do is be self-aware and try to do more good than harm.

[Just deleted a rant about how pretty much everything I love is owned by, produced by, or paid for by some fucking asshole or another but I ain't got it in me anymore.]

Christ, I'm fucking tired of literally every damned thing. This world is hell if you've got a shred of common sense and an ounce of ethics.
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https://imgur.com/a/ZhBFyU0
 
superdoug55 said:
That sounds better if there was a a bundle of just the figures. From previous kickstarters the all in has always had a discount in the per figure cost so that is why I looked at that one. If there is an all in of just the figures I will need to do my math with that one to see if I want to step into this Kickstarter. I have been cutting way back and honestly none of the figures are screaming most have to me right now so I might finally sit out of a 4H Kickstarter.
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Yeah the ‘all-in’ option here is just that - it includes all the figures and all the game items, so the price per item is really dependent on what you’re wanting there. There’s a bundle for just the all the figures though. Now that we don’t have to rush to grab the limited Paladin, I think many will take a moment and look over all the different options when the kickstarter opens.

A couple of things to note, as these come up with EVERY kickstarter
-you aren’t charged until the campaign ends, even if you back immediately. You can cancel any time before the campaign ends and not be charged.
-you can edit your pledge, select a new base reward, or add on to your original selection as new stretch goal items unlock
-there is a pay over time option. 1/3 at the end of the campaign and the other thirds one month apart over the next two months
-support early in the campaign unlocks more stretch goals sooner

Bill has a great little summary of things here
 
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docsilence said:
Honestly the lack of real lore was really appealing to me with ML when I first started collecting. I WANT generic fantasy figures. And I complain about them a lot because I think they make bizarrely bad business decisions, but I still like their stuff because I want lore-less goblins, knights, barbarians, and orcs.
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This is it for me.

If I, for instance, wanted a big-ass dude in a yellow t-shirt for my Star Wars display, you might suggest a Marvel Legends Luke Cage. Even if I were totally unfamiliar with Marvel/Luke Cage, that wouldn't work for me. The knowledge that he's a recognizable guy from another IP would drive me insane. It's a no-go.

Lines like Mythic Legions and Operation: Monster Force are a dream for me. I want generic guys that represent my own characters/creations. I understand they write their own lore to sell more toys, but people wouldn't blink if they saw Zer'eoi'Thoik from Cosmic Legions in my Star Wars display. They'd immediately know that I was using him as a stand-in for some sort of headcanon.
 
I pay no attention to the Mythic Legions lore, but I don't begrudge them for trying to create and expand it - if the fans reject it, so be it, but if many like it, why not? I don't like to criticize folks for attempting something that may turn out to be mediocre - fine to critique the output as not great, but not sure why the hate on them for trying it.

Personally I think the endgame for them is to get the lore and the game and so on up to a level that has enough generic appeal that maybe they could then license it for a film or tv production. Right now they are landlocked to the toy collector market, developing an IP around ML that could be the basis for media is the only chance to truly expand beyond that - like MOTU, Transformers, GI Joe, Thundercats and so on before them.
 
I love these figures, but the lore and the goofy character names are just white noise to me now. I suppose I'd be interested if they did come up with some better stories, but they sent Jeremy Girard to an RPG writing boot camp and his writing just got more verbose and stilted. If the 4H really want to grow their IP to be suitable for RPGs or other media, they need to hire a better writer with experience and make Girard VP of marketing or something.
 
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