Four Horsemen Studios Mythic Legions

[docsilence]

I love these figures, but the lore and the goofy character names are just white noise to me now. I suppose I'd be interested if they did come up with some better stories, but they sent Jeremy Girard to an RPG writing boot camp and his writing just got more verbose and stilted. If the 4H really want to grow their IP to be suitable for RPGs or other media, they need to hire a better writer with experience and make Girard VP of marketing or something.

Y'know, it never occurred to me til now how kind of offensive "we sent him to a writing class and now he's better" is when it truly takes a lifetime of learning to become a great storyteller. His work did get noticeably less incoherent after that with the last few waves but yeah, if they want to build an IP that inspires movies and TV shows, they really need a writing team to do some deeper world building. (I'm kinda half-tempted to do what I've been doing for the GI Joe file cards and MOTU character just for shits and giggles but...)

And has now doubled the initial funding goal in first 10 minutes. Good lord. The pledge amount tracker is just spinning.

As disinterested as I am in the game itself, the figures on offer really are good looking. I am not surprised it's doing gangbusters already. Especially since they've set it up so you might need 2-3 of each character to even make the base offerings, let alone the kitbashing 4H fans do.

 

[GrumpyMatt]

This is the last time, I promise. Nobody in the office cares about this — 680+ backers and more than $310,000 raised in the first 30 minutes. It's already hit a stretch goal that they haven't announced.

And yeah, I wanted to take it easy with this Kickstarter but it's tough narrowing things down, especially with the accessory sets, which are all really nice.

 

[docsilence]

This is the last time, I promise. Nobody in the office cares about this — 680+ backers and more than $310,000 raised in the first 30 minutes. It's already hit a stretch goal that they haven't announced.

And yeah, I wanted to take it easy with this Kickstarter but it's tough narrowing things down, especially with the accessory sets, which are all really nice.

Just doing some very basic number crunching, that averages almost $500 per backer.

 

[superdoug55]

I guess I am so used to the HasLab scheme of things that I thought the all in included all of the unlocks but after reading the fine print that is not the case so if you really want everything it will end up costing quite a bit more than the $680.

 

[GrumpyMatt]

Yeah, the all-in folks are going to be shelling out for sure. I figure a lot of them are already spending more than the $680 to pick up duplicate figures as well.

The free GID die are a nice add as the first unlock.

I'm hoping the monster figure unlock at $500,000 is the ogre we keep seeing in the promotional material. It could be an easy skip for me.

 

[thewyldman]

Shipping charges seem a bit high


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[Mint In Boks]

With 650 backers as I type this only 332 want anything game related.

“Well that’s more than half”

Yeah, well sit down, strawman I made up, we’re getting it to.

Of that 332 only 79 are pledged at levels that DON’T include the SDCC figure.

Because the Horsemen are very bad at communicating (and this was a VERY last minute change) how many of 253 people pledging for the Beginner Box (with bonus!) and All-In (with bonus!) know the Paladin is a solo add-on and those sets aren’t the only way to get them?

How many people are actually considering the different levels and not jut scrolling to the most expensive item (with bonus!) scrolling past the “just the toys” option and deciding “yep! That’s the one! That’ll get me all the toys!”

Only 8 people want the All-In without the Paladin so “all the toys” or “I want the Paladin” seems to be a major factor over, you know getting the game itself.

15 people want just the book and zero want the beginner box. This is a toy Kickstarter pretending to be a TTRPG Kickstarter (even the stretch goals are toy based, no add on modules) and that’s what really pisses me off, this could have been a Storehorsemen sale.

Edit:
Finished typing math check:
880 with 440 wanting the game, 5 beginner boxes now! Wow! Only 132 games sold with no Paladin
Edit Edit: MORE MATH! Since Paladin was originally locked to game this means, not counting add-ons there are still 450 unclaimed SDCC Paladins from the original run… the complaint was never “what if there’s not enough” it was always “but I don’t want the fuckin’ game!”

 

[JakeEkiss]

15 people want just the book and zero want the beginner box. This is a toy Kickstarter pretending to be a TTRPG Kickstarter (even the stretch goals are toy based, no add on modules) and that’s what really pisses me off, this could have been a Storehorsemen sale.

If they weren't already a reasonably successful toy company the game would be a contender for "Fantasy Heartbreaker" status.

Did they release any system or mechanics stuff in advance to whet people's appetite? Like, sometimes you'll see ttrpg kicks do a little offering of "here's a cool magic item" or whatever so folks have an idea what they'd be getting to use in game.

I dunno, I just don't feel like the majority of folks collecting the figures are so interested in their setting they really want to run games in it.

 

[docsilence]

Did they release any system or mechanics stuff in advance to whet people's appetite? Like, sometimes you'll see ttrpg kicks do a little offering of "here's a cool magic item" or whatever so folks have an idea what they'd be getting to use in game.

I back a metric shit ton of TTRPG material on KS and backerkit and it never occurred to me til you said it but s far as I know, we saw ZERO system or mechanics information. They had some pics of pages in the book where the text was too small to read but you could tell it was formatted in the standard 5e design. Even games based on beloved IPs that will sell even if the game sucks in the end release quickstart guides and detailed descriptions of the mechanics (Avatar the Last Airbender, Ghost in the Shell, Walking Dead, ALIEN are all games I backed that I probably would've given money to for the art etc. but was able to download a quickstart for before the campaign even launched).

The funny thing is the game feels like an afterthought when they could have just tapped into something I think there was a real market for - build an action figure of your own TTRPG character. Have they said if they brought on any industry vets to design the game? I know there's a cadre of really good freelancers who can tailor 5e to someone's setting really well but I don't remember seeing any of those names mentioned.

 

[Buttmunch]

The game was built in-house mostly by Cameron over the last several years. They’ve done test groups with several of their YouTube fans and many of them aren’t new to 5e or D&D in general. Not saying this game will be anything truly new or groundbreaking but they have put lots of time into it. It’s a new market they are trying to break into as they’ve had so many people come up at cons and say ‘I could use these to make my character’ with their figures and they’re trying to be able to do just that now. They hope this is just the beginning and they’ll have a long series of game materials and figures to continue offering in the future. They want people to go into game stores, see these and want to start picking up figures, accessories, and of course the game. The figures are bringing the existing fans in but the hope is Kickstarter, which is known for launching so may role playing games, will help bring in the game fans into this, which is why they didn’t just do this on storehorsemen.

 

[JakeEkiss]

The game was built in-house mostly by Cameron over the last several years. They’ve done test groups with several of their YouTube fans and many of them aren’t new to 5e or D&D in general.

That's not super encouraging, honestly. Like, rigorous system testing requires more than that. And while they might be enthusiastic, there's a difference between enthusiastic game design and good game design. 5E has the whole WotC apparatus and they still miss on design every now and again (granted, they're at a disadvantage since 5e is more homage than design). Given how much busted shit I've seen come out of D&D fan creations, it's very worrying that there's not dedicated game designers helping out (or at least, that they aren't advertising any).

The figures are bringing the existing fans in but the hope is Kickstarter, which is known for launching so may role playing games, will help bring in the game fans into this, which is why they didn’t just do this on storehorsemen.

Right but like, the way to bring ttrpg fans in is to show them ttrpg stuff. Otherwise you're selling to a subset of your audience: action figure fans who *also* like ttrpgs and *also* are looking for a new game/setting and *also* think they need another mostly generic fantasy-land. Like, right now I know it's 5e compatible. Cool. Other than the setting, I know basically nothing about what they are putting into the game part of the game from their kickstarter video. As a ttrpg player there's nothing there for me to get excited about aside from a world with factions. But that's any reasonably developed fantasy world.

Like, they've got orcs and goblins and dragon dudes and all that, but how are theirs different from the ones I already know? Give me something to be interested in as a player or DM. "Our dragonborn have a special bite attack that increases in potency as you level and inflicts aggravated wounds on enemies. At 20th level your bite is mechanically identical to a vorpal sword" or something. Like, I jut pulled that out of my ass but it's the kind of thing that gets a player interested.

 

[Reefer Shark]

I like the way They handled this Kickstarter. I don't have time for role playing games, so my interest was only with the toys. Was able to get the two figures I wanted. Exclusive Paladin & Cleric plus a character pack and the stands without having to order any other stuff I wouldn't want.

Nice bonus for me that Kickstarter offers payment plans now too, I guess it's ben a bit since I've backed anything! Overall, this was a good experience for me

 

[PantherCult]

Bah... the cat head and tail set I want is an 'add on only' so I have to commit to some other pledge level to get them and they are clear that the $1 'observer' pledge doesn't qualify for add on purchases. So I have to commit to a $30 figure or a $25 dice set to be able to buy the add on set I want.

So now I decide if its worth doing or not. Or maybe I cozy up to someone who is pledging and ask them to tack on an extra Ranger set for me

 

[Mint In Boks]

They want people to go into game stores, see these and want to start picking up figures, accessories, and of course the game. The figures are bringing the existing fans in but the hope is Kickstarter, which is known for launching so may role playing games, will help bring in the game fans into this, which is why they didn’t just do this on storehorsemen.

Yeah, see, I know that’s what they want… it’s clearly not what’s happening.

Just did the math again: of 1034 backers only 508 want anything to do with the game, and only 159 of those 508 don’t want the Paladin (for those keeping score at home 400 of the SDCC Paladins remain! It was never a supply issue!)

Yeah, I’m sure the Horsemen would love Mythic Legions comics, table top games, video games, movies, novels… what are they doing to make that a thing we’d actually want though?

Like if I’m Joe Piss Pale coming across this in Kickstarter’s “Projects We Love!” email (a thing I definitely read and don’t immediately trash) why am I backing this TTRPG?

Mythoss doesn’t have a unique magic system, unique creatures or races, unique environments or setting… it’s D&D, it’s a D&D 5e based game, like I can make a Mythic Legions inspired character in 5e right now and not give the Horsemen a penny.

Why would a Table Top Gamer who doesn’t collect toys want this game?
Why would a Table Top Gamer Store owner who doesn’t already sell action figures want this game? Why would they think their customers want this game? Why would they give up space that could be used for Pokemon cards or snacks and sodas for the guys who spend all day in the back to buy or other high ticket items in a world where space is increasingly becoming a premium commodity?

The Horsemen Kickstarters usually cap out around 1.8k backers. The birbs and Advent of Decay (which I keep wanting to sing like “Planet of the Bass”) got 1.8k, the video game got 1.5k, and the first Mythic got 1.1k

If this doesn’t get over 2.5k backers I’m going to say it was a bad idea to go to Kickstarter.

We can assume just from the amount of time since (“when we out in da space on de…”) Advent of Decay the brand has grown so they must sell at 2k figures in pre-sales/to retailers… and I’m not entirely sure the 1000 backer rapid funding this morning isn’t just what they get immediately after a live stream wave reveal anyway. So if they don’t bring in at least 500 new backers what was the point of giving Kickstarter 30%?

Bah... the cat head and tail set I want is an 'add on only' so I have to commit to some other pledge level to get them and they are clear that the $1 'observer' pledge doesn't qualify for add on purchases. So I have to commit to a $30 figure or a $25 dice set to be able to buy the add on set I want.

So now I decide if its worth doing or not. Or maybe I cozy up to someone who is pledging and ask them to tack on an extra Ranger set for me

It’ll be for sale from retailers later for $20, I know $5 mark up is still a mark up but it beats a $25 set of drop ship liquicore dice or a $30 figure you don’t want

 

[fac]

Just did the math again: of 1034 backers only 508 want anything to do with the game

How many backers would a new, unknown game get on a Kickstarter from a company without a reputation in the field? I genuinely don't know but I think as a starting point it isn't bad, its gets their feet in the door, they can see if it leads anywhere or not.

Naturally they are leveraging their toy customer base, that only makes sense. I'm sure if they choose to they can send a few free starter kits to each comic shop that buys the toy line, have some "try it out" sessions at the various cons, and so on.