Wrestling Toys (Mattel WWE, Jazwares AEW, etc.)

TheGillMan said:
Jeezy Creezy!! It's like he ticked off every box possible to be a gigantic asshole! What a total piece of shit!
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Oh, and the best/worst part is that there is video of ALL of it. I probably should have just started there. Here are the incidents, in New Jack's own words. NSFW warning.

Stabbing incident:

Gypsy Joe incident:

Vic Grimes incident:
 
But, just like with Hogan (and Benoit, and and and) wrestling fans will throw each other into woodchippers to be the first in line to grab the newest action figure of whatever absolute pile of shit some company decides to make. Because you know... 'separate the art from the artist' or some stupid, self-excusing bullshit.
 
Damien said:
But, just like with Hogan (and Benoit, and and and) wrestling fans will throw each other into woodchippers to be the first in line to grab the newest action figure of whatever absolute pile of shit some company decides to make. Because you know... 'separate the art from the artist' or some stupid, self-excusing bullshit.
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I saw someone post a similar list of new Jack feats elsewhere, and he was responded with "Or... It's King behaviour."
 
My point.
But honestly, even otherwise good, well-meaning people will do this. They'll make endless excuses for why having 50 Hogan figures on a shelf isn't a bad thing because, you know, it's HOGAN NOT TERRY, or whatever the excuse is. Or the endlessly infuriating 'if I don't buy toys of bad people, I can't buy anything and that's no fun for me.' I dunno. Whatever.
 
It's definitely a hard line to draw since wrestling has historically employed the absolute worst people possible. From the high end of Benoit, Snuka, Vince, New Jack, etc. down to people like Randy Orton and Edge bullying the Diva Search girls back in the day. Becky Lynch just did an interview where she talked about how she was warned to stay away from certain men when she started, because if she refused to sleep with them she'd probably end up fired.
 
I posted on the Fwoosh for years, and have been visiting Articulated Thoughts since it began. Some of you may recall that I have a freelance gig at Marvel, and one of my latest projects was putting together the ROM Omnis and Epics. And I mentioned my cousin in-law at Hasbro, and how I made a bunch of suggestions for some folks. (Man-Ape stands out. 🙂)

This thread made me register. I don’t know how I’ll be received, or if I’ll be an instant pariah due to my take on some things. Anyway, here goes.

Dig into a wrestler’s history, and odds are you’ll inevitably find something controversial, disappointing, disturbing, etc.

Stone Cold has had numerous domestic abuse allegations, and maybe even an arrest.

The Rock roughed up people and stole as an adolescent, and while at the top of his wrestling game, made transphobic remarks on social media, and often resorted to racial caricaturing in his promos.

I grew up watching wrestling beginning in the mid-‘70s. When Hulk came on the scene, it was absolutely mind blowing.

I hate that all the bad stuff regarding the Hulkster happened. It sucks SO BAD. But to equate what Hogan did with Benoit’s actions is outlandish.

I’m leaving all of the political elements out of this. I still love so much of what he did, including the decades of great memories. And he did far more good stuff for people than was ever made known.

I remain in the camp of those who are very disappointed and saddened by all aspects of the situation (the terribly inappropriate things he said, as well as the huge fallout), while also still feeling a lot of empathy and fondness for the dear old fool.

Sigh… Frigging Hulkster. You were the hero for pretty much the whole world once upon a time. It’s such a shame to see him not having taken a better route, one different from the path he chose (a bit too much concern for his image, and not enough remorse).

Anyway… That’s something that was on my mind.
 
I've seen absolutely no one here drawing comparisons from what Benoit did to Hogan's transgressions.

However, to ignore the awfulness he's done would be a disservice to those he's affected. And he has affected people. Professionally, personally.

Also, to ignore who he chose to align himself with politically would be giving a pass to not only Terry, but dismissing and diminishing those affected by this administration today. We knew what they were and what they would do, and so did Hogan. And we are past the point of giving Trump supporters, let alone ENDORSERS, a pass.

You allow nostalgia and personal bias dictate the rationale that at the end of the day, he objectively wasn't a good guy.
 
Thanks for the reply.

Hulk objectively was not a good guy? Huh.

I knew Hulk a little bit. Jimmy Hart and Tony Atlas more so. And Gene Okerlund as well (again, to a lesser degree than Jimmy). And, I’ve been fortunate enough to work with many, many wrestlers over the years at an annual show in the Northeast.

Every single one of them defended Hogan.

But before I continue, when you say “we are past the point of giving Trump supporters, let alone ENDORSERS, a pass,” who is we?

Is this board reserved solely for followers of one type of ideology? I happen to be smack dab in the middle, for what it’s worth.
 
CTV said:
It's definitely a hard line to draw since wrestling has historically employed the absolute worst people possible. From the high end of Benoit, Snuka, Vince, New Jack, etc. down to people like Randy Orton and Edge bullying the Diva Search girls back in the day. Becky Lynch just did an interview where she talked about how she was warned to stay away from certain men when she started, because if she refused to sleep with them she'd probably end up fired.
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100% there's no perfect distinction. I would think among decent people there are absolutes and there's the gray area. Some people will absolutely draw a line at bullying, and some people will be like 'well, that was the culture and it wasn't really hurting anybody' (us people that came up in construction tend to feel that way because some hazing and hard times is just normal for us). You may argue back and forth about a person like Steve with a possible history of domestic abuse because he wasn't convicted of anything and it happened between people that aren't talking about it (i.e. we don't know how serious it may have been, we don't know the situation, we only know nothing came of it and the victim doesn't seem interested in being seen as such). Some people will say 'nope, if he laid his hands on a woman for any reason, he is bad and I will not support him ever.' And that's fine.

But Benoit, Snuka, Vince -- I have a really hard time with the people that defend them, or even really want their faces on merchandise. I don't think there's a gray area here of whether or not those people did horrific things and whether that's defensible or 'no one else's business' or whatever rationale you'd use for the above examples.

Hogan is one I understand why people want to be able to look the other way, I'm just not sure I understand -how- they can look the other way. The storied history of him just being a crappy person is layered over him being a guy that apparently felt pretty comfortable using racial slurs. I suppose I get why conservative-types like him, since he basically is just one of them. It just surprises me that people who -do- have a problem with his views and the things he's done/said will still go out of their way to make excuses for why they still gotta have that action figure. That's the puzzling thing.



Stormbreaker said:
This thread made me register. I don’t know how I’ll be received, or if I’ll be an instant pariah due to my take on some things. Anyway, here goes.
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Unless you want to be a pariah, it's pretty unlikely. I'd say very few/none of us agree on everything, even among those of us that are fairly politically aligned with one another. The one caution I'll make is this; don't talk about it if you don't want it talked back at you. If someone says something you don't like, you can ignore it. But if you choose to engage with it (or say it), you forfeit the right to get upset if someone else answers back (within reason, obviously). If you're like "I think vanilla is the best flavour" you can't get upset when someone says "you're wrong and here's the fifteen reasons why chocolate is better."
If you're cool with the discourse, you're good. If you're not cool with the discourse, you're still good - just avoid the discourse entirely. There's a few fellas here doing exactly that.


Stormbreaker said:
Dig into a wrestler’s history, and odds are you’ll inevitably find something controversial, disappointing, disturbing, etc.
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Likely. We are all of us imperfect.
Of course, it's always worth qualifying that digging by asking 'who is this person now?' Did someone say 'gay' as a pejorative a lot in high school in the '90s because that was the culture, but grew up to be an ally, does not use derogatory language like that anymore, and advocates for equal protections? That's pretty different from a person that used 'gay' as a pejorative in high school, still does it, and actively hates and campaigns against the rights of gay people.
Stormbreaker said:
But to equate what Hogan did with Benoit’s actions is outlandish.
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Saying both people did bad things and are not good people does not equate their actions. It just means they're both bad people.
Stormbreaker said:
You were the hero for pretty much the whole world once upon a time. It’s such a shame to see him not having taken a better route, one different from the path he chose (a bit too much concern for his image, and not enough remorse).
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I think this is why so many people will twist themselves into knots to either make excuses for him, or just put on the real world blindfold so they can 'just have Hulk Hogan, NOT Terry' on their toy shelves. There's meaning to them there. I understand that. I don't think I could ever do it.

Stormbreaker said:
Every single one of them defended Hogan.
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You do understand this isn't a meaningful way to argue in his favor, though, right? Loads of wrestlers and people within the industry STILL defend Vince McMahon and there's basically no question about what he did and what kind of person he was. Argumentum ad populum doesn't fly. Especially in a celebrity business where there's -certainly- pressure to say nice things about people even if you don't necessarily believe those things.

One of the only guys in the business I will take seriously is Bret Hart because that guy clearly does not give a fuck about saying nice things about anyone, haha.


Stormbreaker said:
I happen to be smack dab in the middle, for what it’s worth.
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Middle of what? I'm not sure if there's a middle ground between 'racial slurs are bad' and 'racial slurs are okay.' BUT, we do have a US Politics thread if you want to deep dive on that. Keep in mind, it's pretty Lefty in there so you will get lots of static. Refer to the 'don't say it if you don't want to hear it back' comment. But you're welcome to pop in and share any opinions you'd like.
 
I have been checking out the board since it began. I thought about joining a bunch of times, but never did. No reason why; just absentmindedness, mostly.

But I did want to join. I recognize a lot of you from Fwoosh, and I enjoy a ton of the interactions on here. Not to mention many people’s knowledge and creativity and zany humor.

But lately, it seems I’ve seen a lot of disparaging remarks made with regard to religion and politics, etc. And it’s kind of a turn off. 😕

I ain’t no prude. Believe me. But some people here come off as very harsh, and take every opportunity to knock anyone who doesn’t fall under their alignment.
 
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