U.S. Politics

[TheSameIdiot]

I think I believe that the vast majority of Republican voters are actually just stupid/ignorant/uneducated and easily led, rather than truly hateful.

There was a recent study about how the brunt of Trump voters came out for him because of the racial animus, not supposed economic anxiety. Of course I can't find it now.

As an optimist, I want to have faith in Trump-voting Americans, particularly when there are 70 million of them. It gets very difficult to defend when you remember that he won Republican primaries in 2016 and 2024. They liked his dogwhistle racism in 2016. They didn't mind that he led a coup in 2024. Our country would look a lot different if Republicans opted for John Kasich or Jeb Bush in 2016. It would look a lot different if they opted for Nikki Haley in 2024. They don't have an appetite for that anymore. They're rabid.

As Republican politicians themselves have learned, their base has been radicalized. It turns out, when you feed them stories about immigrants gutting white people on Fox News every day for 20 years, they don't care for immigrants anymore. "Mass deportation now" was a feature, not a bug.

We as a country need to reckon with the fact that so many Americans were susceptible to the steady drip of xenophobic propaganda. It wouldn't have worked if they tuned it out from the start.

I think we have to take people taking down signs and going quiet as a win. No one in our lives is likely to come out and say "I was wrong, I apologize."

This is right. If things go as well as I hope, everyone will claim to have been anti-Trump all along. It'll be like Germany post-WWII. "Our family never supported the Nazis."

Broadly, people have almost no ability to admit they were wrong or accept fault.

Yeah, I can only imagine what I'd be going through mentally if I was in MAGA country.

I left rural Florida almost 15 years ago. I left the state of Florida more than a decade ago. Most of my friends still live there. I honestly don't know how they do it. That goes for the folks in this thread, too.

So if you're not getting pegged as an American - I guess it's because you're not enough of an asshole?

My wife and I took a daytrip to a vineyard while in Italy last year. It was us and three other American couples. They couldn't stop telling the Italian tour guide about how "we all" support Israel. That's probably a perfect picture of your average American tourist.

"Veterans for Trump 2028"

Grim. Can't we get through the asshole's second term before we begin dreaming of a third?

 

[AceofKnaves]

They're rabid.

This is the conversation that no one wants to have because it gets icky and complicated real quick, but here is the clinical truth:
Yes, on some level, every Trump supporter (especially at this point) is literally ill. And they aren’t just going to “get better” en masse. Everyone gets nervous when “deprogramming” gets mentioned, and I get it. But the only real way to break someone fully out of a cult is to actively break that person out of the thought control (or “brainwashing” for the colloquial terminology) that they are under. I really urge anyone who is interested in the what and why of this to do some digging into the semi-recent NXIVM cult and how challenging it was to extract and deprogram the people involved. It’s a heinous process, and some people can’t or won’t complete it.
It’s not enough to “beat” Trump. The whole cult need to be destroyed, and when I say destroyed I mean that quite literally. There is no other way. Now I hope it can be destroyed by fairly mass extraction/rehabilitation and then hopefully making MAGA so conceptually odious on a societal level that any remnants will be rejected, shamed, and essentially exiled until they become extinct. But that’s a best case scenario. I suspect the reality will be far, far messier.

 

[Goldbug]

Agreed! The guy on the bus said it was a compliment and I said, "Oh, I know!" Traveling while American was something I was a little concerned about.

My wife and I took a daytrip to a vineyard while in Italy last year. It was us and three other American couples. They couldn't stop telling the Italian tour guide about how "we all" support Israel. That's probably a perfect picture of your average American tourist.

I'm not entirely sure but I believe this started the first time he got elected then went after our allies.
I think or hope most American tourists aren't MAGA's since they are willing to leave their county or country to explore the world.
Then again lots of European countries have their own populist cult issues.

 

[Ru1977]

I think there was at least some of this during GW Bush's time after all the Freedom Fries nonsense, but the "Ugly American" trope has been around for at least several decades.

 

[Damien]

Back to an earlier topic: Here's a retired general very.. gently.. and not in so many words saying that soldiers will probably shoot people if ordered to do so and that we need to be the ones to not let it get to that point. Pretty depressing when you're reading between the lines, but basically as-expected, in my opinion.

There was a recent study about how the brunt of Trump voters came out for him because of the racial animus, not supposed economic anxiety. Of course I can't find it now.

Oh, I definitely think that's 100% true. Trump says he won on the economy and the news outlets say he won on the economy, because no one wants to say 'this country is full of fucking racists and Republicans are the racism party.' What I was meaning to say was that I think it took concerted, powerful efforts to get us to that point because I don't think the racial animus is any deeper than 'Republicans have told me for generations that these people are bad.' The same thing Republicans are now doing to the trans community. Keep repeating 'they are the enemy' over and over again until every one of your uneducated followers believes you and repeats it religiously.

Republicans have set this up in a way that anything THEY say is the truth and that's that. I genuinely believe if Trump turned around right now and said 'I love Mexicans and we should let all the Mexicans in to help pick out food and pay taxes' -- a large portion of his followers would just get in line and say 'oh okay...that makes sense.'

I think at the root of it, what I'm saying is that most Republican voters don't actually have any opinions or beliefs of their own. They don't have ethics or morals. Everything about their tiny brains is malleable to whoever they've decided is their leader.

 

[docsilence]

I think there was at least some of this during GW Bush's time after all the Freedom Fries nonsense, but the "Ugly American" trope has been around for at least several decades.

Can confirm - when I moved to Ireland in 2009, I couldn't even count the number of times someone said, in a congratulatory way, "so your country got its head out of its ass finally, huh?" after GWB was gone. I regretfully informed them, just give it time, the next time we fuck up it'll be worse. I just didn't know how bad.

Also good American tourists are invisible cos they're respectful. Bad American tourists you can spot from three blocks away. They're always wearing shorts and complaining.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

This is the conversation that no one wants to have because it gets icky and complicated real quick

I think I briefly alluded to it here or early in the tariff thread: it's affected me personally. I haven't talked about it in depth because it's deeply personal, painful to talk about, and brings me a lot of shame. Almost my entire family is MAGA. While I easily cut off those I didn't like (almost all of them, tbh), my parents are big Trumpers. That was more complicated.

I agonized over how I could have a relationship with them after Trump won the first time. (I think it's this sentiment that centrists don't understand. I have several apolitical-but-left-leaning friends who argue with me about it. "How could you cut someone off for something as trivial as politics?" Folks in this thread know it's more than a game show the news puts on every four years. I assume most Americans recognize that Trump is different. I doubt Republicans could nominate another person I find as odious as Trump. He's stupid, callous, narcissistic, and autocratic. He's the total unqualified package.)

My parents have always been righties, but when I found out they were deep in the Trump cult from the start, it was existential. Do I cut them out of my life? Do I argue with them every time we speak? Do I keep them around but quietly distance myself? I opted for the latter. It was miserable. I was literally grinding my teeth during phone calls. I forced myself to keep up appearances for four years while my resentment grew.

When Biden won, it was a relief. Unlike Obama, they had little to say about Biden at all (hmm, I wonder what the difference is?). Unfortunately, it was a temporary reprieve.

Around that time, I started therapy. While therapy helped me contextualize the situation and accept my feelings around it, it hasn't gotten much easier. Having MAGA family members is complicated. There's no easy answer that will make you feel better.

After Trump won again in November, I lost it. I couldn't fake it anymore. I was furious. My gut reaction was to cut them out of my life.

Shortly thereafter, my dad let slip that he's a member of a neo-Nazi organization. At least he made it easy. I immediately cut off contact. That's not a line I'll cross for anyone.

While I've never been close to my family, if I have a real relationship with any of them, it's with my mom. I ultimately decided to try and salvage my relationship with her. On my therapist's behest, I wrote her a letter about how I really felt. To her credit, she took it in stride. While the honesty helped, something between us died when I found out she was a Trump supporter.

Our policy has been to avoid politics altogether, though once and again she'll say, "Oh, I thought you'd have liked this thing the president did..." She clearly still admires the guy. It's stomach-turning.

Cutting her off would suck. Maintaining a half-hearted relationship sucks. It's a lose/lose.

She could disavow Trump tomorrow and apologize for the pain she's caused. But it'll never really be the same as it was before 2016.

Republicans have set this up in a way that anything THEY say is the truth and that's that. I genuinely believe if Trump turned around right now and said 'I love Mexicans and we should let all the Mexicans in to help pick out food and pay taxes' -- a large portion of his followers would just get in line and say 'oh okay...that makes sense.'

This is the funny thing about the NPC brain chip meme that was popularized on 4chan and became a favorite of conservatives. It's not a good representation of liberals, but it does fit conservatives to a T.

Every accusation is a confession.

Bad American tourists you can spot from three blocks away. They're always wearing shorts and complaining.

Hey, I'm always wearing shorts and complaining.

 

[joshsquash729]

I think there was at least some of this during GW Bush's time after all the Freedom Fries nonsense, but the "Ugly American" trope has been around for at least several decades.

Every so often, I remember the whole "Freedom Fries" thing and just roll my eyes and laugh. At least back then we (seemingly) had the wherewithal (or just lack of conviction) to not actually call them that. Now there's all this "Gulf of America" BS and such, and it just feels different. The former felt like that one overly needy kid trying to enforce his rules upon recess but nobody really listening, this one feels like the spoiled brat demanding his friends do something or else they're not invited over anymore (or just arrested).

Also good American tourists are invisible cos they're respectful. Bad American tourists you can spot from three blocks away. They're always wearing shorts and complaining.

That's something I never understood- if you're gonna go to another country and act an absolute fool, at least don't look like a dweeb doing it. Like, I've been a stereotypical nerd all my life, and they're the kind of people that I would beat up and take their lunch money. Socks and sandals? Sorry, no- I have no choice but to give you a wedgie, even if I have to take a puff of my inhaler after. Don't give other people even more ammunition with which to hate you and make fun of you- pick your battles, for cryin' out loud. But so many Americans just have to be the center of attention. Thank goodness I'm from a family that's pretty pale on both sides; I've always covered up these sour cream shaded gams for the sake of others and so as not to cause a 12 car pile-up.

 

[Misfit]

That sucks to hear, TSI. I feel very fortunate that the conservative leaning family members I have always been closest with saw Trump for what he is. Some have not, but they're relatives I'm more distant with anyway so it hasn't been a constant negative in my life and since I've dropped off Facebook it's even less of an issue. My grandfather, who I was very close with, was a staunch conservative and while I miss him terrible, I'm at least glad I didn't have to see his reaction to Trump getting elected since he passed away in early 2016. He didn't like Trump at the time, but as a straight ticket voter he may have still voted for him, but at least with it this way I can tell myself he would have come around. His son, another lifelong conservative, left the party over Trump to my relief. My brother-in-law, on the other hand, is a Joe Rogan poison-brained voter and comes from a Trump loving family. I just bite my tongue for the most part around him if it comes up, as do my parents, for the sake of my sister who is pretty liberal, but not in a consuming enough way that it seems to bother her what her husband thinks.

 

[Misfit]

Well, if you were expecting violence today it looks like two Democratic reps in Minnesota have already been shot, one killed (and her spouse). Stay safe out there if you're attending any protests.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/14/us/minneapolis-targeted-shooting

 

[Ru1977]

Best send in the National Guard to find the shooter I guess.

 

[AceofKnaves]

Marjorie Taylor Greene decided to mark the occasion of the assassinations this morning by posting a picture of herself at the gun range, firing a rifle.

 

[AceofKnaves]

Don't give other people even more ammunition with which to hate you and make fun of you- pick your battles, for cryin' out loud.

Heheh. I don’t think I’m an “ugly American” but I definitely bring all my cool goth clothes when I travel, lots of pictures of me on my honeymoon galavanting around Italian cities in giant boots and flowy coats.
Then again, Europe doesn’t really give a fuck about alternative dress the way America does. They might just assume I’m a local.

 

[docsilence]

Go to sleep for four hours, wake up to political assassinations. Hell is empty, and all the devils are here. This is what happens when you've programmed 35% of the population to hate and to believe anything they're told and then give them limitless access to guns.

TSI, thanks for sharing your family perspective. I find I'm weirdly fortunate - my Boomer dad was a "socially liberal, fiscally conservative' Romney-style Republican til the 2016 election and then went full Left to the point he spends, far, far too much of his time trying to deprogram men his age who have gone full MAGA. His real flaw is that he hasn't recognized when he's wasting his time. There's a couple of family friends (husbands of my mom's friends, really) whom I long ago refuse to even be in the house with anymore. If they're at an event I leave. Just mean and gleefully stupid. The kids in cages situation was where I gave up talking to either of them like human beings. But my dad is stuck with them a lot and really tries to figure out why they are like this.

Aside from my one brother, most of my family is just... not self-aware enough to be political? Like they mean well but neither worry nor care enough. Or are too shy/anxious to ever share an opinion. (My brother almost got into a fist fight with a cop in-law over some social justice issue when the cop called him a pussy for standing up for gay people. This was a MA cop, BTW, so blue state, still got fucking assholes. But my brother got so angry about it he just doesn't talk about politics anymore. I think it ran his anxiety into the roof.)

Meanwhile the cousin I really thought was going to go full MAGA calls Trump "this fucking asshole" instead of by name and I was so relieved to hear it. But he's a union guy and a severe diabetic so he's watching bigger picture issues to keep himself alive.

I guess all his to say I've only had to cut off a few people, and they've been people I haven't felt any remorse losing, and I know that makes me lucky as hell.

 

[Damien]

Marjorie Taylor Greene decided to mark the occasion of the assassinations this morning by posting a picture of herself at the gun range, firing a rifle.

The dog whistles really are just tornado sirens, aren't they.

Well, if you were expecting violence today it looks like two Democratic reps in Minnesota have already been shot, one killed (and her spouse). Stay safe out there if you're attending any protests.

I'm sure Trump will be out any moment to condemn all forms of violence against politicians on either side of the aisle.