U.S. Politics

Ru1977 said:
Jesus... What did she do to earn that?!?!
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"Right now, Candace Owens is dealing with a lawsuit from Emmanuel Macron and Brigitte Macron. They filed this lawsuit because Owens kept saying Brigitte Macron is secretly a man. The lawsuit says Owens posted an eight-part series where she claimed Brigitte Macron was born male, took another woman’s identity, and later had surgery to become female."

 
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Our stable genius with a lovely holiday message for all Americans.
 
That's certainly a screed, isn't it.


I'll never not get absolutely incensed that someone in any position of political authority can go online or on TV (or write a book) and just LIE. That's it. No nuance or 'bending the truth' or 'from a certain perspective.' Just blatant, outrageous lies with zero consequences. The United States, and a lot of other countries, obsessing over things they believe they had in the past, really need to be considering 'consequences' as the thing from the past that they bring back.
 
altcunningham said:
"Right now, Candace Owens is dealing with a lawsuit from Emmanuel Macron and Brigitte Macron. They filed this lawsuit because Owens kept saying Brigitte Macron is secretly a man. The lawsuit says Owens posted an eight-part series where she claimed Brigitte Macron was born male, took another woman’s identity, and later had surgery to become female."

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Jesus Christ. I don't even know where to start, but I appreciate the explanation.
jonaskane said:
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Our stable genius with a lovely holiday message for all Americans.
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Too long, only read the first two lines but seemed really great!

I actually read the whole thing to my wife just now and she kept asking "....is this real?!" I was unable to read it out loud properly and had to sound like a first grader awkwardly stumbling through a long passage aloud to the class with inhale breaks at the wrong moments etc.

Damien said:
That's certainly a screed, isn't it.


I'll never not get absolutely incensed that someone in any position of political authority can go online or on TV (or write a book) and just LIE. That's it. No nuance or 'bending the truth' or 'from a certain perspective.' Just blatant, outrageous lies with zero consequences. The United States, and a lot of other countries, obsessing over things they believe they had in the past, really need to be considering 'consequences' as the thing from the past that they bring back.
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Fucking agreed. My son is vehemently anti religion, but my issue with him is he's also ignorant about it, so I'm always trying to get him to learn more. You think you hate religion, wait until you have more of the entire picture. Last night we were at my wife's aunt's house and she had a fridge magnet for Jerusalem, and he is pretty good with geography but didn't know that one. It led into a big discussion about holy lands and wars etc, how sermons work, how many believers haven't read the Book, along with dystopian civilizations and thought control etc. And you're probably picturing me just lecturing him for a great length of time, but he was engaged and asking questions and weighing in and not on any device at least heh. Basically, everyone else was in the living room having a big discussion about family not present or who have passed away and having some great emotional talks but my kids were bored and ready to go and just looking around the house for things to keep busy with because the only TV in the house was busy with the Reese Witherspoon classic Sweet Home Alabama. It didn't have enough Avengers or horror elements. So, let's discuss Our Lord etc.
 
Ru1977 said:
Fucking agreed. My son is vehemently anti religion, but my issue with him is he's also ignorant about it, so I'm always trying to get him to learn more. You think you hate religion, wait until you have more of the entire picture. Last night we were at my wife's aunt's house and she had a fridge magnet for Jerusalem, and he is pretty good with geography but didn't know that one. It led into a big discussion about holy lands and wars etc, how sermons work, how many believers haven't read the Book, along with dystopian civilizations and thought control etc. And you're probably picturing me just lecturing him for a great length of time, but he was engaged and asking questions and weighing in and not on any device at least heh. Basically, everyone else was in the living room having a big discussion about family not present or who have passed away and having some great emotional talks but my kids were bored and ready to go and just looking around the house for things to keep busy with because the only TV in the house was busy with the Reese Witherspoon classic Sweet Home Alabama. It didn't have enough Avengers or horror elements. So, let's discuss Our Lord etc.
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I also hate religion, but am generally better-educated on religions than religious people. My daughter hates religion but, maybe like your son, doesn't have a firm grasp on any of it. She just sees the world around her and goes 'these people are fucking evil.' It's been a long process to explain to her that you can't come at it from that angle. You can't hate what you don't know, or you're as bad as all the people you hate.
Glad you took the time to chat with your son. It's worth it.
 
Damien said:
I also hate religion, but am generally better-educated on religions than religious people. My daughter hates religion but, maybe like your son, doesn't have a firm grasp on any of it. She just sees the world around her and goes 'these people are fucking evil.' It's been a long process to explain to her that you can't come at it from that angle. You can't hate what you don't know, or you're as bad as all the people you hate.
Glad you took the time to chat with your son. It's worth it.
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Oh definitely, I think it's sounds like an exact parallel. He hates it and that makes him not want to learn about it but yeah this was just the latest in what's been going on for a couple years. I was raised Catholic, so I still have this weird reverence for the church while also thinking it should be torn down. My daughters are much more open to learning about religions, my youngest actively strives to. My son is the oldest, 14, and made it clear he already knows everything he needs to know to face the world, but I actually take any opportunity I get to give him these kind of perspectives. But exactly like you said, I agree with the sentiment but you need to understand why as well. If nothing else, I always tell him if you know the Bible better than they do, you have a massive advantage arguments! But... To be fair, these days I don't even see the point in engaging with most people that way.
 
Ru1977 said:
But... To be fair, these days I don't even see the point in engaging with most people that way.
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There was a time in my life when you could actually have pretty robust debates about religion. Now...? You can't even say the word 'Jesus' or 'Bible' if someone knows you're an atheist without them assuming you are just attacking them. It's .. depressing.. because I really enjoy theology.
 
Damien said:
There was a time in my life when you could actually have pretty robust debates about religion. Now...? You can't even say the word 'Jesus' or 'Bible' if someone knows you're an atheist without them assuming you are just attacking them. It's .. depressing.. because I really enjoy theology.
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Same here! And not even in a "ha ha, here's where you're wrong, dumb believer" way like when I was a teen who also knew everything I needed to, but I got to have some really wonderful discussions with open minded and tolerant Christians, people who actually walked the walk etc. There is an incredibly sweet old lady who wanders into my work every week or two JUST to say hi to me. I don't understand it either, but old people really like me. I think it's like when a cat targets the person in the room they know is uncomfortable with them to rub up on, but she always comes in and is genuinely pleasant and asks how my family is and such but always shifts into blessings and the good Lord and letting me know about her church etc. And part of it is definitely I'm in work mode (you guys wouldn't recognize me, I never even reference genitals) but I just nod and express gratitude and eventually "have to get back to work..."
Damien said:
Stephen Miller is right. Assimilation is a lie. We have to stop pretending that Nazis can just become Americans.


Wait... was that not what he was talking about?
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Haw, right? I immediately wondered where his people came from because... Perspective, fuckwit! Does he hate Saint Patrick's and such? Ugh fuck it, there's no point... But it would be so easy to slip into a rage about how absolutely fucking stupid his point is.
 
Ru1977 said:
Same here! And not even in a "ha ha, here's where you're wrong, dumb believer" way like when I was a teen who also knew everything I needed to, but I got to have some really wonderful discussions with open minded and tolerant Christians, people who actually walked the walk etc. There is an incredibly sweet old lady who wanders into my work every week or two JUST to say hi to me. I don't understand it either, but old people really like me. I think it's like when a cat targets the person in the room they know is uncomfortable with them to rub up on, but she always comes in and is genuinely pleasant and asks how my family is and such but always shifts into blessings and the good Lord and letting me know about her church etc. And part of it is definitely I'm in work mode (you guys wouldn't recognize me, I never even reference genitals) but I just nod and express gratitude and eventually "have to get back to work..."
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This sort've came in that thread where I upset yojoe, but yeah there's a gulf between tolerance and respect for a person, and tolerance and respect for their belief system. I've actually studied theology and debated Christianity respectfully with people that were in training to become priests. I've had and still have friends that are deeply religious. I mean, I think they're fucking wrong and their religion is vile - but they're not approaching it from a bad place. I'm sure on some level I still hope they see how dangerous their beliefs are just as I'm sure they still hope I will see the light and see Jesus on a piece of toast or something. But we can think those things and still respect each other in the here and now.

Some of the arguments I make when 'debating' (or discussing) religion are ones presented within Christian circles, between Christians. But, as an atheist, if I bring up these claims or those arguments, it's seen as ATTACKING the individual. Forget that literally other Christians say these things to each other. If I say it, I'm doing a bad thing and I'm mean. I just hate that we've come to that place because if we cannot challenge each other, if our beliefs are so fragile that they cannot be discussed or defended, then what are any of us even doing? What's the point of any of it?



Ru1977 said:
Haw, right? I immediately wondered where his people came from because... Perspective, fuckwit! Does he hate Saint Patrick's and such? Ugh fuck it, there's no point... But it would be so easy to slip into a rage about how absolutely fucking stupid his point is.
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Thing is, these arguments don't actually work on them.
I don't know how plugged in you are to modern white supremacy, but they actively call themselves 'native Americans.' They do not even take seriously the idea that they were ever immigrants.
 
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