Star Wars Movie and Streaming Series Discussion

There is one very popular show I thought was okay as I watched it, but didn't grasp why people were so into it... then the ending turned me around and I have rewatched the show twice because the ending was so well done.
Insert Gil Hicks gif here.
I guess I’m the only one who like Book of Boba Fett. Nah, scratch that: I LOVE it, *except* for the Mandalorian episodes squished inside it.
As I navigate the socials I realize I must be easy to entertain. I really enjoy most everything I watch (SW, Marvel, TWD-verse, even the newer DC stuff), while everyone seems to have issues left and right.
Same here! Brief history, but I did a replica costume of the ROTJSE suit (basically the ROTJ costume with the ESB helmet) in 1999 and that was my costume for years. When Boba showed up in Mandalorian with the black robes, I was so into that. Then the next episode when he has the black vest and his armor is all cleaned up, mostly, my wife said "you should do that to yours." And she had no idea what that really meant but yeah, I went to town doing the clothing, and ultimately did an amalgam with the BOBF jetpack and belt, The Believer clothing and rifle, ROTJ armor. Anyway, I love the black. I prefer the samurai pants one on Mandalorian though
That's him in his avatar too...in case no one knew. I'm sure if your wife knew what that one comment would have lead to, she may have rethought it. Heh.
 
Insert Gil Hicks gif here.
Breaking Bad. Two friends raved about it and kept talking about what a badass Walter White was, but I hated him throughout the series, and still do. It's pretty much everyone else on the show that I care about. But the show itself is so well constructed and plotted, especially since they came up with it as they went! And for the record, I feel Better Call Saul is far better of a show.
That's him in his avatar too
Hee hee hee
I should have mentioned that, good looking out!
I'm sure if your wife knew what that one comment would have lead to, she may have rethought it. Heh.
Oh definitely. She probably thought it would mean a Saturday of repainting. And it probably should have been but I ended up working on it here and there for what? Two or three years? Upgrading this, redoing that, adding LEDs, coming up with how to do the spur sound, and lots of trial and error.

Actually, if *I* knew what it would have meant, I may have rethought it!
 
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Are we sure it isn't as simple as Book of Boba Fett was a Bad Show and Andor was a Good Show?
Ach, I missed your post yesterday somehow, but yes that is simple and I feel more the case. I get that mystique can be a massive draw, but obviously backstory can still be compelling.
The same goes for fleshing out Darth/Anakin through the prequels. Fleshing him out wasn't the issue; it's that the story was bad.
Definitely. Learning how he came to be wasn't destined to be bad. Imagine if Gilroy and the other writers behind Andor had made the prequels.
1) why does it exist?
2) is this good?

For me, Thunderbolts checked the first box but not the second. I think Star Wars needs to start asking itself the same questions.
shame-mitchell.gif

But yes, I do agree that these franchises need to ask those two questions throughout the development of new projects. I also think it may be time for Marvel to cease with 'we'll fix it in post'.
Amen. Imagine how brave it would've been for Disney to end the MCU with Endgame.
I actually had the same thought after seeing Endgame. It would have been the biggest mic drop in the history of Hollywood. So few creative people walk away at the perfect moment. It's happened, and it's pretty awe inspiring a lot of times, but Marvel kept going. And I definitely have REALLY enjoyed several of the post-Endgame projects, particularly, ahem, Thunderbolts!
I'm not so foolish to think that they'd stop the money train there. They could've started the MCU 2.0 with the X-Men (or Shang-Chi and the current crop). It would've been a lot better than shoehorning Ant-Man, Sam Cap, and other legacy characters into bad in-between stories.
Right, the profit was way too big a factor, and I don't blame them for that. It would have been incredible though.

I wonder if, maybe after Far From Home, taking some time to recalibrate would have been a good idea? I know COVID kinda forced them too, and the strikes etc, but they never stopped and took a break. They were constantly fighting against everything in order to keep the machine going. I'm not saying stuff like Black Widow shouldn't have happened, in fact I don't wish any of the projects were skipped, but I think a lot of them weren't what they could have been.
 
I think BoBF had some good elements (the first "arc" with him with the Sandpeople), some bad elements (I didn't buy him and the Mods and the whole Rancor/Hutt stuff), some OK elements (the battle vs the syndicate as he builds his Magnificent 7 like team), and some out of place elements (everything with Grogu and Mando that should have ben ep 1 of Season 3 of their own show). All of which just made for a bit of a disjointed and frustrating viewing experience. I think there was some good stuff in there but it didn't gel so they edited in the flashbacks and when that wasn't enough still they added more Grogu...

Guess I am an outlier but I am less concerned about stories set around the PT and ST timelines negatively impacting the originals, if done well, as I don't care if it contradicts some line here or there (as compared to rewriting the story - like I was disappointed they brought back Maul in the Clone Wars/Rebels animated stuff). I still think the Obi-Wan series helped the impact of what Leia lost with Alderaan and how Obi-Wan came to think that Vader was totally lost, without compromising their next encounter. Andor about the whole desperate nature of the Rebellion and how they would never have really succeeded without Luke. Ahsoka meeting Anakin in some time/space nexus not so much for me.

Regarding the need to end things, I had a thread on the Fwoosh that was essentially about the idea that just because the IP owner keeps telling stories doesn't mean we as the consumer had to care, and how IPs never end anymore ever after 50 years, and do you ever just ignore things past some point?

That thread got a few folks riled up about the idea that you could not have your own personal cannon, but I stick by the idea that I am fine with there are only two Alien films and two Terminator films and no non-Frank Herbert Dune books and so on. And the Star Wars ST does not exist so that our heroes lived miserably ever after before everything thy worked for fell apart. Something like Luke's brief appearance in the Mandalorian was all I ever need to see post RotJ of Luke to know that he is still out there rebuilding the Jedi and stopping bad guys.

In some ways Tolkien had the best of both worlds, by having the Appendices in RotK you could learn what happened to the main characters without it becoming a "continuing story" and forced narrative with adventure and conflict. Just enough to have closure.
 
but my theory is the book is done and locked in a vault to be released one year after his death so he doesn't have to listen to what ANYONE thinks.
I doubt it because he's already said there's -two- books to complete the series. If he had one of them done, he could just release it and push the actual final book off until he's gone and doesn't care how the ending is perceived. That would be better for him in terms of appeasing people by finally releasing something. If he's not doing so, I suspect that's because it really isn't done yet.


Martin has promised another book for years, giving endless nothing updates - he's feeding that particular beast all on his own so I do think he should finish it.
That's complicated. I mean, no matter how many times you say you're going to - if you can't, you can't. Even with the best intentions. Writing isn't like building a chair. You can't just sit down and make yourself crank out the final books of a fantasy epic that's taken decades to finish just because you'd like to. If he's really struggling on the creative side of it - I get that. Now, if he straight up doesn't feel like it and doesn't want to because he's crazy rich now? Then I'd agree it's in poor taste to keep saying you will and just not delivering. But I genuinely don't think that's what's happening.
Martin has talked about his process a lot in this regard. He's also been pretty honest that finishing these books isn't his only life priority as he gets older and finds that he wants to do other things and live his life rather than lock himself in a room and force himself to finish books that everyone will hate because he'll hate doing it that way. He's gotta do his process. If his process means he doesn't have enough lifespan to complete this gigantic project? Well, shit happens, I guess.

Also also - people are fucking psychotic. I fully expect that if George just said today that he will not be doing any further GoT writing and has lost interest in the series or whatever, he'd be getting death threats within an hour. I wouldn't even be surprised if someone actually took a shot at him over it.


When you are working in/on a saga story, closing the loop doesn't mean destroying everything, just completing *a* story.
Agreed.

Also, you can have multiple unrelated sagas in the same setting. Even if the Skywalker Saga is definitively closed, that doesn't mean Star Wars is over and it's a shame when writers/creatives act like that's the case.
 
You bring up my favorite example of not wanting something to be canon with the Alien franchise. In my head, Alien3 didn't happen but the Dark Horse comics did because my gawd that told the Alien story I wanted after the first two films that none of the on-screen adaptations did. (EDIT: I actually think objectively Alien3 is a fascinating film, but it did things to the long-term story arc I never, ever liked.)

I'm sick to death of DC not being able to commit to a path, but there's something... reassuring about the fact that because they can't figure out a shared universe long-term, the DC on-screen universe basically gets a reboot every decade, y'know? I mean I haven't LIKED much of what they've done, but they certainly don't seem to care about making sure the Arrowverse doesn't contradict the Snyderverse doesn't contradict the Reeves-iverse or whatever. It's kind of freeing, in a fingerpaint-y kind of way.

Star Wars is so damned unique though. It has one timeline, it has like, paid people who maintain the lore! There's an almost religious aspect to it. And when they do it right, they masterfully make older parts better by exploring other corners of the galaxy. Other times they face plant. But I can't think of any other franchise quite like it. I mean in a way the MCU is now, canonically, the anti-Star Wars because they threw open the gates and let loose the dogs of war with acknowledging the multiverse and alternate timelines. Now canon is elastic AF there. Can't do that with Star Wars in the same way.

(And now I'm thinking about the stuff I really loved about the Obi-Wan show despite it not being my favorite.)
 
I think BoBF had some good elements (the first "arc" with him with the Sandpeople),
Agreed. I don't think they show was a total dumpster fire, which is probably only adding to my frustration about it. But yeah, the Tusken stuff was pretty solid to me, aside from how they ended it.

to quote Naked Gun:
It's like sex: it's a painstaking and arduous task that seems to go on and on forever, and just when you think things are going your way, nothing happens.
some bad elements (I didn't buy him and the Mods and the whole Rancor/Hutt stuff)
The mods, as I said, I didn't care so much about how they looked... but I still feel jarred a bit when he decides to just ... hire them? It's funny because when I watched that show, I could see some of the things Favreau was pulling from. Oh, he's doing Yojimbo here. Oh, that's like a lame version of the bit in Godfather, and so on. But it's just a lot of half-assed homages. To be clear, I'm all for homages, and Kurosawa should always be adapted into Star Wars, but I guess give Jonny a few more months at the computer before we film it? But the Hutts are another one. it's just... it felt like a crime/gangster movie written by someone who has barely any grasp of how crime/gangster stories work. The Hutts are presented as a major threat, they send someone who nearly kills him, then they show up again and... apologize? Big whoops on our part, Boba. We're leaving town, here's a rancor and Danny Trejo! There was just a lot of setups, then Boba makes a dumb choice, and things kinda work out anyway. And in tonight's episode, Boba crosses the street and takes their word for it!
some OK elements (the battle vs the syndicate as he builds his Magnificent 7 like team),
The battle was cool. It went on for a long time, but I also feel it wasn't earned at all, which is always an issue for me. I totally get what he was going for, and especially in the end when Boba is suddenly all about the town! Even though he never seemed to be going in that direction until the finale.
some out of place elements (everything with Grogu and Mando that should have ben ep 1 of Season 3 of their own show).
YEP.
All of which just made for a bit of a disjointed and frustrating viewing experience.
Extremely. I haven't watched the show since it aired and I'm still frustrated by it.
I still think the Obi-Wan series helped the impact of what Leia lost with Alderaan and how Obi-Wan came to think that Vader was totally lost, without compromising their next encounter.
Yeah, I actually appreciated what that show added. It was definitely not perfect, had some clunky parts along the way, but the stuff with him and Leia, and him and Vader, I really enjoyed and appreciate having in my head canon.
Ahsoka meeting Anakin in some time/space nexus not so much for me.
I have one coworker who is a star wars fan and he is constantly wanting to talk to me about the things that aren't star wars, like some elements in Andor. Particularly stuff with Bix, and some with Mon as well actually. And that may be a whole other issue, but I mostly don't like to get into "that doesn't belong in Star Wars" too much. What you're talking about though, I think is the one thing I don't think belongs in Star Wars. I get the Force is something we can always learn more about but it was jarring in a way. I enjoyed the emotional aspects of it at least. I enjoyed the performances.
do you ever just ignore things past some point?
This is a great question and definitely something I think we should all ask ourselves more often. I would like to, yes.
I am fine with there are only two Alien films and two Terminator films
Now that you mention it, I remember that now and it was a great idea for a thread. I am beyond fine with two Alien films, but I probably took Terminator even further and said I'm fine with ONE.
And the Star Wars ST does not exist so that our heroes lived miserably ever after before everything thy worked for fell apart.
Agreed. I think that's why I'm pretty okay with The Mandalorian, but every time it feels like they're taking a step toward the ST, I get anxious. I still haven't finished the third season.
Something like Luke's brief appearance in the Mandalorian was all I ever need to see post RotJ of Luke to know that he is still out there rebuilding the Jedi and stopping bad guys.
Right, I'm with you here. In fact, maybe that's where it should end for all the characters appearing in that episode.
 
You bring up my favorite example of not wanting something to be canon with the Alien franchise. In my head, Alien3 didn't happen but the Dark Horse comics did because my gawd that told the Alien story I wanted after the first two films that none of the on-screen adaptations did. (EDIT: I actually think objectively Alien3 is a fascinating film, but it did things to the long-term story arc I never, ever liked.)
YES! I'm STILL hoping they adapt those comics, or something close. And it almost happened! We came really close to Ripley, Newt, and Hicks returning and I will curse them forever for not going through with that.
(And now I'm thinking about the stuff I really loved about the Obi-Wan show despite it not being my favorite.)
Yeah. It's not perfect at all, but it had some really great parts.
 
One positive thing I can say about the Obi-Wan show is that it at least dipped its toe a tiny bit in the one thing I actually WANTED from the prequels: Darth Vader himself (by which I mean DARTH VADER, not that whiny little pup but now with contact lenses) actually doing brutal purges of the Jedi. I am still MYSTIFIED that the last act of RotS isn’t full-costume Vader exterminating the Jedi Council, backed up by actual Stormtroopers. Lucas made a lot of horrible choices in the PT, but that one seems the most deliberately self-destructive.
 
I was talking to my wife about this stuff some last night and she was saying if she was tasked with plotting out the prequel trilogy, she would have had him being Vader in the entire last movie, basically turning to the dark side by the end of the second, and suiting up in the armor at least partway in the third, not at the very end. I get why Lucas did what he did, but... that idea seems pretty incredible.

I don't know why, but when I was a kid and imagined what happened with Vader and the Jedi, I always pictured Vader frantically hunting for Yoda personally after killing several other Jedi. He set it up so the two duels were simultaneous but yeah, I imagined Vader being shown doing a lot more Jedi hunting.
 
As a kind-of stand alone trilogy though, having Anakin get himself schooled by Obi-Wan, after acting like he was the world's greatest Jedi ever and embracing evil so easily, is the perfect ending to the Anakin Skywalker arc and I think needed to be saved until the very end. What I mentioned earlier is that I think we needed to see him in pure rage mode in the suit and see the Emperor also put him in his place, so his entire belief in himself is just crushed and he is, for all intents and purposes, a failure and now a lap dog. And as was mentioned in the MCU thread about how killing the bad guy is done too much by the hero, that Obi Wan can't bring himself to kill Anakin - three times - is I think part of what makes Obi Wan a hero.

And I liked that Anakin was Vader before he got stuck in the suit, and he did lead the purge at the Jedi Temple - I think Lucas was trying to not have the suit be the reason for being Vader, showing Anakin had gone off the rails well before that. If anything, it suggests that Vader in the suit may be less powerful than Anakin was outside of it.

All of which is why I liked Obi-Wan, as that with Rogue One is enough for me to see Vader as a terrifying threat - watching Vader hunt down Jedi seems like a bunch of action sequences in search of a story to me.
 
having Anakin get himself schooled by Obi-Wan, after acting like he was the world's greatest Jedi ever and embracing evil so easily, is the perfect ending to the Anakin Skywalker arc and I think needed to be saved until the very end.
Yeah, you're right. I can see that.
that Obi Wan can't bring himself to kill Anakin - three times - is I think part of what makes Obi Wan a hero.
Definitely agree, great point.
I think Lucas was trying to not have the suit be the reason for being Vader, showing Anakin had gone off the rails well before that
Definitely, and I'm totally cool with him being Darth Vader even before the suit is necessary. That's why I was saying having him turn at the end of Episode 2, that's to rhyme with the downer ending of ESB. Then he could be Darth Vader for the entire last episode, and suit up partway through. Or, keeping with what you said, I guess at the very end.
it suggests that Vader in the suit may be less powerful than Anakin was outside of it.
I definitely got that impression, especially with the novel and Dark Lord sequel.
watching Vader hunt down Jedi seems like a bunch of action sequences in search of a story to me.
heh, totally... but could be worth it if they found a good story.
All of which is why I liked Obi-Wan, as that with Rogue One is enough for me to see Vader as a terrifying threat
Definitely. I love those moments.
 
I'm intrigued by the idea of Vader not so much desperately hunting down Jedi, but the way we've seen it in comics and some other media: he finds one alone and just... snuffs out one more light in the darkness. He's picking off little remnants of what soul he has left like lint off that black cloak every time he kills a hidden Jedi.

Obi-Wan does something I always was intrigued by with the (some might argue TOO MANY) surviving Jedi in ancillary media. Guys like Jax Pavan or Rahm Kota who survived, could have hidden, but kept sticking their neck out becaues Jedi can't help themselves. A scared and exhausted Jedi leaving a miserable but safe life to go find a little girl in trouble really is at its core a Dark Times story I wanted to see.
 
Guess I am an outlier but I am less concerned about stories set around the PT and ST timelines negatively impacting the originals, if done well, as I don't care if it contradicts some line here or there
I'm curious about this. Would you not agree (and seriously - maybe you wouldn't, so this isn't rhetorical) that a lot of what we know about the setting and the story essentially only comes from a line or two of dialogue and therefore contradictions to those lines essentially contradict the entire narrative?

For example, Leia asking Obi-Wan for help by invoking how he helped -her father- in the Clone Wars. Doesn't it seem like a pretty drastic and meaningful change when we find out that Obi-Wan basically took Leia out on an adventure and saved her life a few times? To me; while I actually liked that show, I definitely feel like it basically shits all over the OT because it makes NO sense now for Leia to even bring her father up when she could be like 'remember that time we did a bunch of space stuff together? I need you again.' Kenobi's show recontextualizes his relationship with Leia to the point where her pretending he's a stranger is suuuuuper weird.


Regarding the need to end things, I had a thread on the Fwoosh that was essentially about the idea that just because the IP owner keeps telling stories doesn't mean we as the consumer had to care, and how IPs never end anymore ever after 50 years, and do you ever just ignore things past some point?
Oh definitely. But also not really?
I think if you really love a franchise, it's very hard to just pretend no new content exists. I'm sure some people can do it. It's probably easier to pick-and-choose what you like and don't like. But that also comes with the problem that because everything builds off and informs everything else, you almost cannot escape the stuff you don't like unless you toss it -all- in the bin. Like, Mandalorian brought back Midichlorians - the thing I hate most ever in Star Wars. Which means if I pretend the PT doesn't exist, I also now kind of have to pretend Mandalorian doesn't exist.

We certainly can stop at any time and say 'I don't care if the IP holder does more stuff, I'm done and I've decided I only want to acknowledge X and Y.' But we probably, by and large, WON'T do that. Because we're nerds.


That thread got a few folks riled up about the idea that you could not have your own personal cannon
Anyone can absolutely have their own personal canon. The problem, if it is one I suppose, is that it becomes harder and harder to integrate anything new into your canon without changing the new thing as well. You're essentially using the official content to write your fanfic every time, because if you don't acknowledge X, you CAN'T acknowledge Y (like I said about the PT and Mandalorian).

But hell, you can do it. Sometimes it just takes a lot of personal mental gymnastics and I think a lot of time it's not worth it unless 'your canon' is saying things like 'just the OT and nothing else.' Once you go further than that, the picking and choosing gets a lot more difficult and contradictory.


Something like Luke's brief appearance in the Mandalorian was all I ever need to see post RotJ of Luke to know that he is still out there rebuilding the Jedi and stopping bad guys.
Agree with this so much. I NEVER needed or wanted long stories (movies, books, or comics) about a post-RotJ Luke. But having him occasionally make a cameo to show how cool he is and shit? Awesome. No notes.


but there's something... reassuring about the fact that because they can't figure out a shared universe long-term, the DC on-screen universe basically gets a reboot every decade, y'know?
The problem is that this MCU-style long-form storytelling also means that a lot of DC content never gets a fucking ending either! Infuriating.


(And now I'm thinking about the stuff I really loved about the Obi-Wan show despite it not being my favorite.)
Anyone that says the final fight wasn't, at the very least, super cool is an asshole. I said what I said.


One positive thing I can say about the Obi-Wan show is that it at least dipped its toe a tiny bit in the one thing I actually WANTED from the prequels: Darth Vader himself (by which I mean DARTH VADER, not that whiny little pup but now with contact lenses) actually doing brutal purges of the Jedi. I am still MYSTIFIED that the last act of RotS isn’t full-costume Vader exterminating the Jedi Council, backed up by actual Stormtroopers. Lucas made a lot of horrible choices in the PT, but that one seems the most deliberately self-destructive.
Agreed. The Kenobi show had pretty much exactly what I wanted from a pre-OT Vader. That and the one scene from Rogue One is all I really need and if they want to keep doing Vader stuff - that's what I want. Cameos and appearances of him popping in just to do awesome shit.
Also hard agree that Lucas not doing -actual Vader- as the final part of RotS was a huge mistake, whatever his (bad) reasons were.
 
I'm curious about this. Would you not agree (and seriously - maybe you wouldn't, so this isn't rhetorical) that a lot of what we know about the setting and the story essentially only comes from a line or two of dialogue and therefore contradictions to those lines essentially contradict the entire narrative?

For example, Leia asking Obi-Wan for help by invoking how he helped -her father- in the Clone Wars. Doesn't it seem like a pretty drastic and meaningful change when we find out that Obi-Wan basically took Leia out on an adventure and saved her life a few times? To me; while I actually liked that show, I definitely feel like it basically shits all over the OT because it makes NO sense now for Leia to even bring her father up when she could be like 'remember that time we did a bunch of space stuff together? I need you again.' Kenobi's show recontextualizes his relationship with Leia to the point where her pretending he's a stranger is suuuuuper weird.
Two ways of looking at this I think: At worst that line now seems like it is an omission on her part, but it is still accurate that he served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars, and really whatever she says there doesn't change the storyline in ANH at all (I could also say if I wanted to justify it more that Leia doesn't know whether Ben might go back to hiding after he helps and doesn't want her knowledge of him seeming like anything more than "my Dad sent me" to protect herself). The one thing coming out of the Obi-Wan show that does impact ANH more to me is that Leia seems somewhat unbothered when Ben dies, but then again her whole planet just got blown up and she was recently tortured an yet she is making wisecracks about Chewbacca being a walking carpet so...her emotional state is likely off. It should be noted she has no actual dialog with Kenobi at all - I might agree more if she had a conversation with him and they did a "nice to meet you" thing as compared to hastily recorded message.

The other way is more pragmatic in that there are already a half dozen things in ANH that future films/shows make odd, from Vader killing Luke's father to Luke crushing a bit on Leia to Vader being subservient to Tarkin to no Emperor being seen despite playing a huge role in RotS, so in the grand scheme of things this is pretty minor - its not like everything is airtight in the OT as is. I guess I don't feel that line of dialog should have stopped the idea/plot that Obi-Wan interacted with Leia, if there is a good story to tell there, as it doesn't to me change the main story or invalidate (too much) anyone's core behavior, plot points or emotional beats. We know these have been created out of order, and I think there is a line where adherence to what was set on film prior can be fiddled with and what invalidates things. I think "somehow the Emperor returned" invalidates too much and retroactively hurts the prior narrative, while I don't think Midichlorians matters much either way (and will defend that it works to explain why "the Force is strong with this one" is possible - that makes little sense without a biological component of Force-ness being passed along - there is likely even a good story set in the past where Jedi producing offspring and attempts to manipulate Midichlorians created problems, hence the Jedi isolation thing...and why what the Sith and Palpatine try to do is unnatural...)

Honestly, if you hadn't (I assume) seen SW so often, would the disconnect between that line and the Obi-Wan show even have registered?

Anyone can absolutely have their own personal canon. The problem, if it is one I suppose, is that it becomes harder and harder to integrate anything new into your canon without changing the new thing as well. You're essentially using the official content to write your fanfic every time, because if you don't acknowledge X, you CAN'T acknowledge Y (like I said about the PT and Mandalorian).

But hell, you can do it. Sometimes it just takes a lot of personal mental gymnastics and I think a lot of time it's not worth it unless 'your canon' is saying things like 'just the OT and nothing else.' Once you go further than that, the picking and choosing gets a lot more difficult and contradictory.

Sure, its not like I'm saying I don't like Lando, so therefore I pretend he isn't in the story while watching TESB - that would require mental gymnastics* and be kind of absurd. But after consuming the ST, I can decide that even though I know that is the story in terms of the IP holder, I can prefer to think the story ends with everyone living happily ever after and the last real thing is RotJ. There should be some logic, either a clean stopping point, or a change in creators, etc., to support the "I'm good" reaction. If someone said they thought ANH works as stand alone film and rejects everything else, I could accept that position.
 
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