Random Observations and ?s Re: Older Marvel Legends

[Schizm]

Now that it's more formulaic and the line feels more 'assembly line' than 'artistic' (not an insult, mind you), it's more a waiting game to see if they make the figures you want than, to me, any genuine excitement to see what's coming next.

Added the emphasis because this sums up where I am with the line at this moment. I want my shelves complete and I am so tired of *waiting* for Hasbro to LET ME COMPLETE THEM. Ripping open Marrow as soon as she arrived because she completed my 97 line-up - a joy!

I know this is not a new thought and I don't want to go off on a tangent, but you expressed the feeling well.

 

[joshsquash729]

You skipped the X2 figures?? Those were the best of the three movies! Magneto still holds up! Iceman and Cyclops were also great. Wolverine had funny head sculpts and odd body proportions, but came in like three varieties, uniform, leather jacket, and tank top.

I didn't want to skip them, but not only was my family super poor at the time, the only one I ever saw on the shelves was wave 1 Wolverine. Maaaybe Cyclops, but they were pretty sparse, and of course the 2nd wave was even rarer. Would've loved to have Nightcrawler and Iceman, and Magneto looked like a big step up from his movie 1 figure. I did see a loose Nightcrawler a few weeks back at my LCS and regret not grabbing him before someone else did; as stated, he really does hold up. I hope Hasbro gives us an updated version of Nightcrawler, either from X2 or Doomsday.

Same thing regarding the BAFs- I remember really wanting Mojo and the Sentinel, but money was tight, and getting one of the completed ones at a local LCS or secondhand store was way out of our price range- they could be like $75-200, even back then. I really wanted Mojo and a Sentinel, I remember. Crazy how the sizes of BAFs have gone down over the years. Those ToyBiz Sentinels and Galactus were heckin' huge, especially for a pack-in that really didn't effect the price at all. The only way to get anything even remotely close now would be a Haslab.

 

[NORM]

Now that you mention it, that second wave WAS tough to come by. Forgot about those days when we had to really diligently hunt.

I was among those who picked up three Sentinel BAFs thanks to like $3-5 clearance prices at Amazon (when TRU used to sell directly through Amazon, it didn't have its own website!) I still have two of those, one I traded for fodder. I still have six Marvel Universe Sentinels too. Three X-Men '97 ones (12" with limited articulation, three retro card (from the 5poa line), and a HasLab which I use as Mastermold.

 

[hmmberto]

I find that I don't really think about old ML figures beyond 'I wish they'd remake X.' Quite honestly, I don't think any of them actually hold up. Plenty of them weren't even very good when they came out. For me it's just a general feeling that I miss -- that feeling when ML was reasonably new and it was genuinely very exciting to see what they'd make next and how they'd make it. Now that it's more formulaic and the line feels more 'assembly line' than 'artistic' (not an insult, mind you), it's more a waiting game to see if they make the figures you want than, to me, any genuine excitement to see what's coming next.

This is only half true in my experience of the line - but it's very true for that half.

ML almost feels like two separate lines for me. I'm still in this for the world building - nothing is more exciting to me than when a wave gets announced with a character they've never done before, or a significant upgrade of something that was done poorly years ago. So when a wave like Genocide gets announced, I'm stoked - Marrow, Husk, Fabian Cortez! Cyclops in a team uniform I really like! I actually just opened that wave over the weekend and it was exactly as you say - a bunch of standard ML bodies that I've seen a dozen times before. They're definitely solid representations of the characters, and I'm very happy to get them. But not a lot of surprise or novelty other than "now I've got Marrow." (the blast effect with Cyclops is a ton of fun though).

When they do introduce some novelty it's an entirely different experience (for me), and constitutes the yin to my Marvel Legends yang. The relatively uninspired wave of figures came with an incredible BAF in the form of Genocide. Ultimate Iron Man and Rom are absolute bangers. I got a ton of stuff last year that still captured that feeling of novelty and creativity that half of the line is missing - Lockjaw, the Kang set, Zabu, the Outriders, Death's Head, Phoenix. Odin especially is an all-time favorite. And I've got a Maximum Spider-Man here I haven't opened up yet, but I'm excited to see what he can do.

So half the line is "filling in the blanks" while the other half is actually making interesting toys. And the highlight of the line is when those two things converge, and that's where we get Rom, Zabu, Odin, etc. Obviously, most of that more exciting list are BAFs, deluxes, Maximums, and what have you. I'm kind of ok with it - I don't know how much novelty I really need from a Fabian Cortez figure. But it really makes for a mixed bag of what ML is.

 

[Damien]

When they do introduce some novelty it's an entirely different experience (for me), and constitutes the yin to my Marvel Legends yang.

I think the problem for me is that there really isn't any novelty anymore, even to what you're describing. I -expect- some really crazy figures. I expect them to release at least a couple figures per year that are just way better than they have any right to be. And no character is truly a surprise anymore.

And again, I really want to stress that it's not necessarily a -bad- thing. We are absolutely spoiled by Marvel Legends, and it's, forgive me for this, been a juggernaut in the toy aisles for as long as some people here have even been buying action figures. That's goddamn nuts. But remember 2003-2005? Remember having NO idea what this line even really was or what it could do? Remember having no idea how deep they'd go with character selection or how they'd design certain figures -- before the days when you could just guess new releases based on which fucking parts they have available in the buck library?

I do miss that sense of wonder, I guess, sometimes. Remember the ALL BAD GUYS wave? We were all BLOWN AWAY that they'd ever dare do something so daring, so bold, so new. If they did that today we'd be like 'oh, cool.' Just old man yelling at clouds over here.

 

[joshsquash729]

If I'd want them to bring anything back from the ToyBiz/DST days, it would be the little diorama pieces. I remember being blown away that some of the figures would come with a Danger Room piece, or a chunk of rubble with a Sentinel head sticking out. Heck, even the Ben Affleck Daredevil figure that came with the little stained glass window you could hang on your wall- so cool. I know that the BAF is the more beloved of the two "gimmicks", and takes up less room, but man, would I love a return to little environmental stands. Even something like the Revenge of the Sith figures, which came with the starship or planet soil bases- I always thought it kinda elevated the figure to almost a little standalone art piece in some ways.

 

[Damien]

I don't even really want either thing, to be honest. I'd rather they put every penny into the figure itself. I fucking hate the BAF concept, and I think we've outgrown it anyway with the ability of these companies to just release any size figure at any price they want virtually whenever they want. And I'd say I bin the little diorama bases as often, or more often, as I use them.

I will take an extra pair of hands, an extra head, extra accessories, etc 100% of the time over either a base or a BAF.

And to head off the argument, I actually don't think the BAF concept serves the same function -for the manufacturer- as it used to. Not to say the Internet didn't exist during the Apocalypse BAF days. Obviously it did. But I'd say the collector community's reach is FAR more robust than even back then and it's become so easy to get BAF parts that I don't think the BAF concept really forces ("encourages") wave completion the way it used to. Further, Hasbro likely gets more sales out of releasing a figure as a Deluxe (or whatever) than they would make up in sales by making that same figure a BAF and trying to sell it to you by getting you to buy the occasional extra figure you don't want. Which also tanks brand value when there's random BAF parts and opened BAF-less figures all over eBay and Marketplace.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

I'd kill the BAF model, except I think some characters wouldn't see the light of day otherwise. Juggernaut, Venom, and the eventual Gatecrasher are all popular enough to warrant single-carded releases. Is Titus (admittedly no great loss there) or The Void? I doubt it. The only other avenue is a multipack, and with all the budget going to a BAF-sized character, it's going to be an uninspired box set.

 

[NORM]

Gatecrasher? Really that popular? That’s exactly the kind of character that would need to be attached to figures that are already popular on their own.

 

[yojoebro82]

If I'd want them to bring anything back from the ToyBiz/DST days, it would be the little diorama pieces.

I still have those and use them on occasion. I currently have Netflix Punisher on the TB Punisher diorama piece and Netflix Daredevil on the TB Daredevil diorama piece. They look incredible.

My first BAF was Galactus but I cheated and bought him complete from a guy who was selling his ML collection. I remember I went to his house and saw his room that had pretty much every ML (at the time....pre Hasbro days). My second BAF was Sentinel but I cheated again and bought it complete from eBay.

I still have X2 Magneto.....man, that head sculpt had no business being that good.......being over 20 years old? Come on. I recently stood X2 Magneto next to TB LOTR Gandalf and I felt all warm and happy inside.

My Marvel buying has pretty much reached an impasse. I'm not world building, I'm buying what I have a connection to and I've pretty much got it all in that regard. (Honestly, I think the only thing on my want list is Cardiac). Currently I'm displaying my Hasbro stuff, my Toybiz stuff has been boxed up for a while and as a big Toybiz guy, that's rare for me. Now I'm reading this thread and thinking of switching it up again.

It's just incredible what they did back then. For less than $10 you go SO much. A (more often than not) brand new sculpted figure, painted, packed with accessories, effects, a diorama base (or sometimes even a motorcycle!) and a comic. Giving you the best they could possibly give for the time. For $8? GTFOOHWTS. "yEaH, bUt ThEy RaN tHeMsElVeS oUt Of bUsInEsS dOiNg ThAt". That's not the point. They gave the fans value for their dollar and died doing it. Much appreciated!

 

[Damien]

"yEaH, bUt ThEy RaN tHeMsElVeS oUt Of bUsInEsS dOiNg ThAt". That's not the point. They gave the fans value for their dollar and died doing it. Much appreciated!

To be fair, anyone saying that is dead wrong anyway.

There were a lot of factors to TB going out of business, but the biggest one was that Marvel owned them, took the actual Marvel license away from them prematurely (and paid TB, but really THEMSELVES, a 14 million dollar penalty for doing so), and then shuttered TB when it failed to provide the same revenue and profit margins that it had been providing while it held the Marvel license.

Marvel destroyed TB. TB didn't just 'quality product' itself out of business.

 

[Reno]

It's always so interesting to me to read about whether other collectors find value.

I'm all about the most obscure characters and am a "character completionist," meaning I buy every previously unmade character that is made. On the flip side, I HATE re-buying characters that I already own in my collection. It's to the point now that has become 90% of it. I find myself buying a lot of "updates" just to have the best version of a character and I despise myself for it. Hasbro introducing the pinless technology has led me to re-buying characters far more than I'd like. I'm also somebody that doesn't like to have alternate costumes of a character. I try to stick with just one version of each character that is definitive to me personally. Multiverse versions like AOA and Spiderverse are the exception to this.

The BAF model allowed me to get figures of characters that I'm pretty sure that we never would have gotten otherwise, so I have a lot of affection for it. I've been disappointed to see it becoming less common. However I'm also not a fan of buying figures that I otherwise wouldn't have just to complete a BAF.

I've found that in recent years that I've started buying more diorama stuff as I got very tired of just having characters on a bookshelf. I'd love a build-a-diorama type concept, but it seems unlikely. A lot of the good diorama stuff out there is just far too expensive. In recent years I have bought more things like the NECA street scene and some stuff from places like Extreme Sets (usually only when big sales hit). I also watch for stuff that isn't necessarily designed for this purpose but still works like Aquarium decor, certain art and dollhouse accessories - although this is usually stuff bought dirt cheap at garage sales, bin stores, second hand stores or in clearance sales. I've experimented with making my own from various materials but I'm just not a very creative person in general so I'm not very good with that.

I'm one of those that has historically found limited value in the other types of accessories such as extra heads, hands, etc... or even weapons and effects. In most cases, 90% of these end up in a bin for me to never be seen or used again. The one exception is probably the alternate heads that I use a lot for kitbashing... but very specific character heads don't work great for that purpose for me.

 

[hmmberto]

I don't even really want either thing, to be honest. I'd rather they put every penny into the figure itself. I fucking hate the BAF concept, and I think we've outgrown it anyway with the ability of these companies to just release any size figure at any price they want virtually whenever they want. And I'd say I bin the little diorama bases as often, or more often, as I use them.

I will take an extra pair of hands, an extra head, extra accessories, etc 100% of the time over either a base or a BAF.

And to head off the argument, I actually don't think the BAF concept serves the same function -for the manufacturer- as it used to. Not to say the Internet didn't exist during the Apocalypse BAF days. Obviously it did. But I'd say the collector community's reach is FAR more robust than even back then and it's become so easy to get BAF parts that I don't think the BAF concept really forces ("encourages") wave completion the way it used to. Further, Hasbro likely gets more sales out of releasing a figure as a Deluxe (or whatever) than they would make up in sales by making that same figure a BAF and trying to sell it to you by getting you to buy the occasional extra figure you don't want. Which also tanks brand value when there's random BAF parts and opened BAF-less figures all over eBay and Marketplace.

This kind of thing is always tricky to me because the people best positioned to make that judgement - and the most motivated to get it right - are the ones with the actual sales information. Not to say they can't make mistakes, but they are the ones with the data to back up what works and what doesn't. The BAF must have some value them to get characters in a wave who they'd otherwise worry about selling - and for me that's a plus, because I love the z-listers.

I do think we're in the middle of an experimental period to sort out this exact issue of BAF vs deluxe - why was Lockjaw a deluxe 2-pack, but Zabu a BAF? Mindless Ones as BAFs, but an Outriders 2-pack (waaaay more preferable for an army builder). I like that they're playing around with all these different models, and if the BAF can go away without sacrificing the deep cuts I'm a-ok with it. They've already cut BAFs back considerably in the last year or two, so maybe you're onto something. Those few BAF waves also happen to have the character selection I'm most excited about, so I'm still nervous that one necessitates the other.

 

[joshsquash729]

I used to love completing full waves and getting obscure characters and all that, but times have really changed. I, too, only collect what connects with me- comic-wise, I really only get Spiderman and X-Men figures, and even then only the ones I'm really familiar with (I realized a few years ago I really only collect based off the 2 animated series I watched as a kid, so if they didn't appear there, I usually don't gravitate toward them), and most MCU stuff. As such, most of the BAFs, unless they're centered around any of those 3 things, I usually don't keep, let alone complete. In fact, I got rid of a bunch of random BAF parts the other day that I'd been holding onto for years for whatever reason and knew I'd never offload. I can also agree with the argument that, since the focus is on the BAFs and they often feel a little more deluxe, the figures in the wave can often feel like they get the short end of the stick, which I'd love to see change.

I don't know what the best option is- it's nice having that little extra bonus; on the off chance I actually complete something I don't want, I can always sell it to make a little extra money back. But at the same time, I'd love to not have all these extra parts I'll never use and are just taking up space. At least with extra accessories, I can usually rework them into other figures, but with BAF pieces, they're tied to that one thing and that one thing only. Diorama pieces, I feel, can usually be worked into a handful of displays, and can incorporate at least a couple figures, thus saving a little space. I don't know- maybe I'm just craving diorama pieces because we haven't really gotten any in so long, and the novelty would wear off after a while and leave me wanting BAFs again. That's why I've kind of grown to appreciate the retro cardback figures- not having to worry about extra anythings and just enjoying the figure.

Maybe removing the BAF concept and just releasing a couple deluxe figures a year, however obscure they may or may not be, in slightly smaller numbers? Or a made-to-order type thing?

 

[hmmberto]

I'm all about the most obscure characters and am a "character completionist," meaning I buy every previously unmade character that is made.

This is 100% where I'm at, though I'm less fussed about buying upgrades of older figures - I'm just resigned to it as a fact of the line, and honestly don't mind periodic updates. By my count we got at least 18 new/never made comic 616 characters in 2024 - that count includes 5 characters who were made in some version that is now woefully insufficient (Zemo, Zabu, and Ka-Zar from the TB/early Hasbro days, Dum Dum as just an alt head, Odin on a too-small frame).

In total there were somewhere north of 40 616 comic characters made in 2024 (depending on who/how you count). Somewhere around half of the comic figures being new characters is pretty alright to me.