Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

[fac]

But the show was pretty loose about how and when Riri struggled with building anything.

Yeah, I think that was my biggest issue as well. I like you suggestion about taking the whole show to get a full armor ready, or upgraded.

But I always think about how people laughed at how absurd they felt the "this is a UNIX system" was in Jurassic Park while accepting an island of dinosaurs as perfectly reasonable, that we shouldn't let reality become a block to telling a fantasy story. So sometimes just have to go with it...

 

[Ru1977]

Armor Wars was my most anticipated project as well and I hope it still happens but really seems like it's been shelved.

I've seen a few reviews for Ironheart that weren't negative about it but still felt it makes a case that a lot of these shows should have been movies instead. And I guess I get that, but sometimes I want to try to let things be what they are and follow the story the way the storytellers are telling it, rather than focusing too much on "they should have done this or that".

 

[fac]

Armor Wars was my most anticipated project as well and I hope it still happens but really seems like it's been shelved.

Unfortunate - there is a lot of mileage in a bunch of armored suit battles and things going boom alot if you ask me.

I've seen a few reviews for Ironheart that weren't negative about it but still felt it makes a case that a lot of these shows should have been movies instead. And I guess I get that, but sometimes I want to try to let things be what they are and follow the story the way the storytellers are telling it, rather than focusing too much on "they should have done this or that".

Spoiler: I don't think the ending would have hit as it did in a movie

We needed more time than a movie would provide for us to see that Riri was often making questionable decisions, was kind of a jerk to her Mom and others, was too arrogant about being "held back" by the rules of the world - I think you need the TV run time for that to work and still have the ending be a surprise but in character, when a viewer might reasonably expect a redemption arc. Kind of how they went right to Wanda being bad in MoM, I think if you have a character break bad you need time to build it, and it hurt MoM.

(This is why I thought Lucas needed us to like Anakin for two films, and the idea the only story we needed was RotS doesn't work for me. If all we had was RotS he's just a gullible whiny man-child - with the other films you knew he had goodness in him and could see a non-Vader path that he failed to take.)

 

[Ru1977]

Unfortunate - there is a lot of mileage in a bunch of armored suit battles and things going boom alot if you ask me

If you ask me too. And I think Rhodey and Riri could be real interesting in some shared scenes. Apparently the last version they'd come up with would have definitively said Rhodey was snatched for Secret Invasion AFTER Endgame, which wasn't the original intent at all but fan outcry. And I tend to sneer at fan outcry swaying the storytelling, but this is one time I would have been okay with it.

But yeah, all these characters AND more, and what could have been cool is it could have meant some could have gone on to Doomsday, like seeing Crimson Dynamo and Titanium Man in suits upgraded since Armor Wars joining in to fight the incursions etc.

This is why I thought Lucas needed us to like Anakin for two films, and the idea the only story we needed was RotS doesn't work for me. If all we had was RotS he's just a gullible whiny man-child - with the other films you knew he had goodness in him and could see a non-Vader path that he failed to take

I don't feel ROTS is the only part we need, but I do feel he had goodness in him the same way Vic Mackey did. And in a way, the prequel story probably would have benefited from being a series rather than three movies.

 

[Schizm]

I think Ironheart came together pretty well! The back half seemed less edited to a nub than the first half, and I really liked her whole extended family working together to help her when she finally allowed them. Those scenes were very nice. I also liked the candy shop scenes and connections and Zelda's hustling out of White Castle.

I agree that maybe we didn't need her to have a fully-working suit in the middle of the show to build up more, but then that also may have felt like a weird TV budget limitation - like Medusa's haircut, or Appa juuuussstttt standing off camera (and Momo being SFX only) - but not having a full suit could have contributed to her growing anxiety and be a reason to motivate her thinking in the direction it goes.

I think Parker's gang was done pretty well by the end and the Ep 5 showdown was a lot of fun, despite the attempted murder. Parker himself - Anthony Ramos did a great job, but the character never came together for me. What did y'all think of Parker's plot in Ep 5?

 

[PanchaMaestro]

I was fine with Parker's plot but

Spoiler: felt that rather than

doing a stinger that basically just promises us more of him in the future; they just show the consequences of him selling his soul to Mephitsto. Whatever that may be. The entire show all along was about wish projection and selling your soul to get what you are projecting. Showing the consequences of that is more important thematically as well as it helps builds Borat's menace to the audience; rather than promising more of a character who was fine but not like many will be dying for more of him.

 

[Fletch]

What did y'all think of Parker's plot in Ep 5?

Not episode specific, but I had a real "that's really it?" reaction to learning what his goal was.

Spoiler

When he gets the lady to sign the contract in the tunnel, I thought "there's no way that's legally binding."

But then I though oh shit, he's a demon-powered character getting people to sign contracts. There's a larger game here where his demon sponsor is trying to get these world-ruining tech leaders under his thumb. This should be good.

But then it really was just somehow him getting ownership of businesses through duress. It's still kind of fun how petty and personal his goals were, but there's no way his plan should've worked. But I guess Mephisto hacked the UNIX, so to speak, and I just have to accept if a "magic."

All told, it just winds up making him look small.

 

[SDcomics]

Here's the thing about the Parker Robbins from the comics: He is a complete and total loser, a disgrace to humanity. He has no empathy for others, no conscience, no sense of right or wrong. He has no ambition or imagination. He's a terrible son and boyfriend. He cheated on his pregnant wife with a prostitute and lied to his Mother about it. He pretty much sucks. If you knew someone that low in real life, you'd slap the piss out of them.

So the show is kind of following the template of the comics. Parker was never going to win. He's just too much of a loser.

Moral of the story: Be like Steve Rogers. Don't be like Parker Robbins.

 

[TFitz]

I.... hated the series. Sorry, but they took what was supposed to be one of Marvel's smartest people and made her idiotic in all thing not "making an armored suit" and just a horrible person. I'll explain in the spoiler.

Spoiler

Idiotic - She get's kicked out of college, but there's no way at all her incredible smarts and enginuity didn't make waves in tech communities. But hey, instead of making any calls to get a high paying job at one of them, let's join a criminal group instead. She does multiple idiotic things with said criminals, and to top it off, at the end, she doesn't even had the Hood arrested. She just leaves him there. Also, knowing for a fact the results and physical effects of Hood making a deal with Mephisto, she does the same fuckng thing. Hell, she didn't even get an answer to what it would cost her. W.T.F.

It also felt like they went with the racist black trope of "black people instantly turn to crime when things get rough instead of looking for an honest job" because again, she could get a high paying job easily with her tech smarts. - And I know the writer and director were colored people, so I'm shocked they went this route because if a white person had written her this way, I know the race card would have been used that "white writers always make black people criminals when times get tough".

Horrible person - She is the worst! She uses Stane's tech that gets him arrested. Does she go to the cops and tell them she took and used the tech in the break-in where a man is killed? Two if you include Hoods brother? Nope. She goes and visits Stane at the Jail and basically says "Sorry that happened, but it sucks to be you" and leaves him in jail to rot.

Him forgiving her so easily for that after he got out seemed like super-lazy writing as well.

 

[fac]

I was fine with Parker's plot but...

Spoiler: Yeah

Parker seeming to be - more or less - OK did undermine the impact of the Hood on him, as well as undermine some of the danger Riri is in...

 

[fac]

I.... hated the series. Sorry, but they took what was supposed to be one of Marvel's smartest people and made her idiotic in all thing not "making an armored suit" and just a horrible person. I'll explain in the spoiler.

Spoiler

I did find it frustrating that she was sitting on hugely valuable tech - not just the suit, but the automatic force bubble that, I think, detects the sound of a bullet firing (physically impossible given many bullets are faster than the speed of sound so the bullet would get to the target before the sound alert kicked in); or the ability to recreate a person as an AI from memory and have a chat in the park with them - and supposedly was broke. But I decided to give that a pass...UNIX and all that. (But I had the same issue when Sam Wilson, a known Avenger, couldn't get a loan for his boat in his hometown when it would take about 10 calls to get 10 speaking engagements with thousands in appearance fees.)

I will disagree about it being a racist trope of Riri taking a criminal way out. Most everyone calling her out on her behavior - her college counselor/dean, her Mom, her friends/family - were black as well and not buying her spiel. Smart people can act stupidly especially when singularly focused on their goals and believing their own hype, even if the hype is real, about their genius and importance.

 

[TFitz]

Spoiler

I will disagree about it being a racist trope of Riri taking a criminal way out. Most everyone calling her out on her behavior - her college counselor/dean, her Mom, her friends/family - were black as well and not buying her spiel. Smart people can act stupidly especially when singularly focused on their goals and believing their own hype, even if the hype is real, about their genius and importance.

Spoiler

I should have been more specific? Yes, she was absolutely called out for her behavior by her mom and her friend, but the fact that the writers went the criminal route with her and not her using her incredible brain to get a high-paying job just seemed to play on the black stereotype. And I hold firm that if this exact story was told by a white writer, they would have been called out quickly and harshly for making Riri choose the criminal route.

Happy parts

Spoiler

I do want to add, that I loved Mephisto showing up at the end and the magic parts that were thrown in. Just Riri accepting his speal is idiotic to me.

 

[Fletch]

So the show is kind of following the template of the comics. Parker was never going to win. He's just too much of a loser.

I admit I've never read a single comic with him in it, but I consider that an advantage since it left me with minimal expectations. (Same with Joe. No idea how much of his story is based on the comics.)

All I do know about the Hood was that I thought he was, like, the kingpin of superpowered crime. Like, all the street criminals from Spider-Man worked for him or something. He even had a seat on the evil Illuminati.

So my very minimal assumptions were that he'd have a plan that couldn't be unraveled by a second year law school student.

 

[SDcomics]

 

[fac]

I find the inclusion of the Freedom Tower in that poster an interesting choice - I don't think it means anything, but seems out of place given what we think we know about the film (era and alternate U).

I may have to get out to see FF the opening day, which is rare for me to try for.