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[AceofKnaves]

The only good musical I've ever seen was Galavant. Everything else can fuck off into the sun. But I also don't think the type of story generally crafted into musicals are the types of stories I get any enjoyment from.

I’ve actually never seen Galavant. Gotta get on that at some point.

Then again, I don’t always seek out or enjoy the “popular” musicals: like I fucking hate Hamilton because a) the music is aggressively Not For Me and more importantly b) it’s fucking disgusting to make singing/dancing musical “heroes” out of the fucking Founding Fathers (yes, I hate 1776 too).

Admittedly, I also kinda hate the stories of a lot of musicals, and many of them I simply rate by roles I want to play (like I hate Oklahoma! a lot a lot a lot, but I *love* playing Jud), aaaaaaaaand also a lot of my youthful entry points for musicals were actually topics/characters I *do* care about:
-Camelot! It’s a fucking adaptation of The Once and Future King!
-Man of La Mancha! It’s fucking Miguel de Cervantes!
-The Phantom of the Opera! I mean, ‘nuff said!
-Jesus Christ Superstar! It’s a rock opera from the perspective of Judas!
-Jekyll and Hyde! This one is really special because it’s also the greatest role I’ve ever played.
-South Pacific! Another favorite role (Emile) and also a badass anti-racist story!
-The Scarlet Pimpernel! The OG “superhero”!
-Sweeney Todd! Revenge, cannibalism, bloody murder . . . I’ve been circling this one for YEARS and hopefully I get to play it one day!

Musical theatre is like any other “style”: it’s got a lot of crap, but also tons to appreciate from a multitude of genres.

But it is definitely not for everyone, and I do wonder how much I would be “into” it if I wasn’t encouraged to perform from the earliest possible age. And also most musical theatre “fans” are fucking insufferable. Performers too. I’m shocked I wound up married to a fellow actor since I spent years trying NOT to do that (techie girls were my dating pool, generally, with one MAJOR fuckup back in the day where I nearly married a walking stereotype of actor narcissism).

Ultimately: I do prefer acting in “straight” plays, but I’ve got a voice and musicals make the $$$ and put the asses in seats, or so I am told. I’d be happy doing Shakespeare and farce for the rest of my career, but if I want to get paid and get onstage with the company I work for, it’s musicals all the way. I’m an “inside man” so I already know next year’s season and am in massive prep prior to auditions in Jan/Feb. Not gonna say what the shows are because it’s possible I could get outed here and I’d be a big jerk to spill the beans, but if I can sell the bosses on myself I’ve got one of my biggest and best roles ever coming, and another awesome role in another show as well. Not exactly ones that would excite folks around here (an adaptation of a popular early-20th century children’s book that just had a big revival a couple years ago, and an adaptation of a very popular 80s dance film), but great roles.

At any rate: musicals are weird, misunderstood, and far more diverse than one might think.

But, like, if ya can’t get past folks singing all the time for what might seem like no damn reason, they are a rough sell.

 

[Damien]

Okay, yeah, I actually do mostly enjoy Phantom.

I do also think a big disconnect can be that you often have -either- a singer that can't act, or an actor that can't sing. Like, arguably one of the best episodes (I'd argue one of the only good episodes at all) of Buffy was the musical ("Once More with Feeling"), but Geller cannot sing and it's very obvious.

Galavant just fucking slaps, though. Hilarious, charming, great numbers. My wife and I are both not 'musicals' kind of people and we loved it.

 

[AceofKnaves]

I do also think a big disconnect can be that you often have -either- a singer that can't act, or an actor that can't sing. Like, arguably one of the best episodes (I'd argue one of the only good episodes at all) of Buffy was the musical ("Once More with Feeling"), but Geller cannot sing and it's very obvious.

Oh Grodd YES.

This is where I can get into snob territory because I’m a strong singer AND a strong actor, but holy fucking shit I canNOT with “one of two” musical performers. I got in a friendly disagreement with my wife during WickedFG because she was like “Michelle Yeoh is acting the shit out of this” and I’m like “sure but she is still miscast because she literally cannot sing a fucking note and THIS IS A MUSICAL”. Indeed, sometimes it’s even ZERO of two, where it’s a mediocre singer who literally cannot act at all. This is exacerbated when “celebrity” is involved: like no disrespect to Grande and she is not a wholly untalented singer, but it was basically cruel to put her next to an absolute virtuoso like Erivo.

And oooh yeah Gellar really stinks in OMWF, not the least of which because she is not a strong enough actor to wipe the displeasure of the singing off her face. Everyone else (except Alison Hannigan) is fantastic in the episode, even Xander gives 100% and tries his best, but hot damn Gellar is rotten. Also as much as I like the episode, Joss’ weird culty shit is on full display and it creeps me out.

 

[JakeEkiss]

yes, I hate 1776 too

In mild defense of 1776, at least it does have that apocalyptically dark song all about America's original sin of the slave trade. And "Cool, Cool, Considerate Men" which IIRC was sharp enough critique Nixon himself stepped in to try to censor it.

Though, on the whole, I absolutely agree. No need to lionize those dudes.

 

[AceofKnaves]

The one nice thing I can say about 1776 is that John Adams is a helluva role and I will probably get roped into playing it some day.
Buuuuut I also have personal “ick” about 1776 because I played Roger Sherman maaaaaaaany years ago and the whole cast tried to make it some kind of “brotherhood” and got all gross and man-y about it all, and the guy who played Franklin (though a really nice guy) could NOT get the Founding Fathers’ collective cocks out of his mouth so it was . . . strained for me backstage. Also: that is a long fucking play and most of it is just a bunch of dudes in wigs sitting and talking. Bleh.

 

[Revox]

And oooh yeah Gellar really stinks in OMWF, not the least of which because she is not a strong enough actor to wipe the displeasure of the singing off her face.

..but the character is at their most wretchedly miserable. She's died and been ripped back from a blissful afterlife by her friends, she's at her lowest point. I don't think it's necessarily displeasure of singing, the point is it's displeasure of everything.

 

[AceofKnaves]

..but the character is at their most wretchedly miserable. She's died and been ripped back from a blissful afterlife by her friends, she's at her lowest point. I don't think it's necessarily displeasure of singing, the point is it's displeasure of everything.

Which would have read better if she could sing.

I don’t think SMG is a capital-B bad actor, but she’s not a great one either, especially back then, and I say that as someone who has been a fan of hers since All My Children.

 

[Revox]

That isn't what you said though.

"not a strong enough actor to wipe the displeasure of the singing [off her face]"

That suggests you are saying the actor did not want to sing for the episode and she wasn't good enough to disguise it. Yet the character does not want to sing either, so they wouldn't be disguising it, ergo - regardless how weak her singing voice is IRL - it strikes me as poor criticism if she's playing the character as they're meant to be at that point. Displeased, depressed, low effort. One might say going through the motions even.

 

[SDcomics]

One might say going through the motions even.

 

[AceofKnaves]

That isn't what you said though.

"not a strong enough actor to wipe the displeasure of the singing [off her face]"

That suggests you are saying the actor did not want to sing for the episode and she wasn't good enough to disguise it. Yet the character does not want to sing either, so they wouldn't be disguising it, ergo - regardless how weak her singing voice is IRL - it strikes me as poor criticism if she's playing the character as they're meant to be at that point. Displeased, depressed, low effort. One might say going through the motions even.

Hahaha harsh.


Anyway I was speaking about the *actor*’s displeasure, not the character’s. Point well taken re: character motivation and I agree in theory, but in this case I really do think I see the *actor*’s reaction rather than an immersed performance, regardless of whether the emotions are technically aligned. I’m definitely not a fan of “just be yourself” acting, and that’s what this felt like. Totally valid to disagree. I did *not* think that episode was even close to SMG’s best work in the series, like not rock-bottom but definitely not “The Body”.

 

[SDcomics]

-Camelot! It’s a fucking adaptation of The Once and Future King!

I saw that in 1981 at the Pantages Theater on Hollywood Boulevard. Richard Harris was in it and if course he played King Arthur. My then girlfriend wanted to see that really bad so of course I wanted to take her. We were both serving in the Navy then so we got our tickets through the command's special services. We had great seats right near the front. The best part? I had an apartment on Hollywood and Argyle. We were literally a block away from the theater. We just walked down there and walked right in. Those were great days.

-Jesus Christ Superstar! It’s a rock opera from the perspective of Judas!

Saw this one at the Cadillac Palace Theater in Chicago in 1990 or 1991 I believe. That was a great show.

To this day I have not seen a show on Broadway in New York but it's on the bucket list. One day for sure.

 

[AceofKnaves]

I had an apartment on Hollywood and Argyle.

Holy crap, I lived off Hollywood and Van Ness for YEARS! Not quite so close to the Pantages as you, but still walking distance! I used to walk all up and down the boulevard, even walked to and from my place when I went clubbing! Which seems completely insane now.

 

[joshsquash729]

Oh yeah, Sweeney Todd is a great musical. I quite like the film version too, even if it took its fair share of liberties and the cast weren't the strongest singers. It at least had its fair share of panache and style to keep me invested, and didn't shy away from the gruesomeness of the musical. I also adore Into the Woods as a musical, but was just left disappointed by the movie. It was visually pretty nice, and the cast did well enough, but it just felt overly sanitized by Disney- how are you gonna take out the Mysterious Man- the entire point of the Baker's character, really? And to chicken out of killing one of the important characters that the musical does, eliminating the narrator and the fun fourth-wall breaks. Wasn't a bad film, per se, but it changed too much and ended up being a major bummer.

A lot of the musicals I love are ones that haven't yet been turned into movies. Once is a beautiful musical that could work really well as a small budget movie (I know it started out as a super small budget indie, but bringing it back as a full musical could really work). Hamilton, of course, would be an amazing movie if done right. But honestly, a lot of the musicals I think could be fun seeing on the big screen are the more edgy ones- Spring Awakening is one of my favorite musicals and the one that really got me into musical theater. A rock musical set in 1800s Germany about kids discovering puberty, sex, questioning religion, etc. Especially in today's darker, angsty times, I think it could work really well. Book of Mormon too- with as long as the musical's been on Broadway, and with as popular as both South Park and Frozen have been, I'm surprised they haven't made it into a movie. Yeah, you'd get the typical religious uproar (you know some folks would somehow be unaware that it was a musical this whole time). Or even Avenue Q- a raunchy adult take on Sesame Street with puppets cussing, having sex, having midlife crises, etc. A lot of people just don't vibe with the overly sanitized feel that a lot of musicals have, so appealing to another market could be a smart move, I think, especially something that doesn't require a giant budget for a lot of flashy effects.



In non-musical, thread appropriate topic- I got around to seeing the remake of The Running Man yesterday. Had never seen the original, but we sat next to an older gent who was a major fanboy of it and kept telling us to see it before the movie started. Anyway, I thought the movie was a ton of fun; far from perfect, but really stylish escapism (to an extent, given how pertinent the message was to today). A healthy mix of style and substance, even if it's perhaps a bit too much of both at times. I love Edgar Wright's movies, and while this one certainly had all the good and bad staples- super flashy, overly bonkers 3rd act- it was still a great time. It still feels like I'm being force fed Glen Powell a bit, but I know that's how a lot of folks feel about Pedro Pascal; I like Glen well enough, and thought he did a good job here. Always fun when a clearly nice guy in real life can play a badass so believably. Shame it's not doing better.

 

[AceofKnaves]

the cast weren't the strongest singers.

Indeed indeed indeed.
And this is fucking SONDHEIM. Serious singers only need apply.
(Like I cannot tell you how despised the performances in this film are in the MT community, ESPECIALLY amongst Sondheim purists, of which I am *not* one, but I do sing a ton of Sondheim all the time so I definitely get it)

I dug the style, I can say that. But outside of Sacha Baron Cohen and maaaaaayyyyyyyybe Alan Rickman, literally everyone is miscast. ESPECIALLY Depp. Oh Grodd he is SO miscast, it’s worse than Dark Shadows in that way.

But Sir Christopher Lee got to sing a bit, so that is cool.

 

[fac]

To this day I have not seen a show on Broadway in New York but it's on the bucket list. One day for sure.

Definitely worth it, especially for a big show that really takes advantage of the stage craft that Broadway can do when they have a theater locked in for 6 months or more of performances and go all out on the production*. I don't go in that often but over the years have been to many shows, last one was the Music Man revival with Wolverine...

*At risk of annoying the musical theater purists, some of the Disney shows like The Lion King, Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast have been great for this - and if anyone is a Harry Potter fan, The Cursed Child has some amazing effects and moments.