Four Horsemen Studios Mythic Legions

docsilence said:
I don't know about everyone else, but I know I tend to get more frustrated when smaller guys do shady stuff because I want to support them. Disney and Warner Brothers are actively evil every fuckin' day. Less holding them to a higher standard and more being like c'mon guys. Don't fuckin' make me feel bad supporting you.

Like, I want to write up my impressions of the Rising Sons but it feels lame to do so during the brouhaha over a ginger.
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Absolutely this.



AgentGreen said:
Well, at least here, I see a lot of people coming out with swords drawn against 4H, in the sole 4H thread, yet there's many Marvel and DC threads that aren't, like, coming at those brands with the same ire... when, if anything, they are guilty for far more heinous things than making MOTU tribute figs... like facilitating things like sexual abuse, amongst others.

So I agree - why always the bullshit tribalism? I'm not sure. I think certain brands here get a pass while others don't, and while I agree 4H should be held to account, by and far they are guilty of a lot less, which does actually matter. I say that as an artist making art in the world in comics and animation. As far as holding their feet to their fire, I'd personally have no problem asking Eric to credit Bok's wife for the duck art (which was a pretty great helmet design) at the next con we are both at, for what it's worth. I don't have a dog in the MOTU fight.
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The first thing here is literally whataboutism, though. We're in the 4H thread, talking about what the 4H did wrong, and the response is "well, what about Disney?" I dunno... what about them? Is there a dearth of places out there talking about how bad Disney is as a corporation? If you make a thread about how bad Disney is, or post about it in the MCU thread, for example, I'm not gonna be like "What about Activision Blizzard?!" Because... what about them? We gotta talk about every company doing something bad in order to talk about -any- company doing something bad?

It goes to the larger point that it feels like most people (not an accusation against you or any other specific individual) would rather just pretend the 4H don't steal from artists, and don't commit IP theft all the time. Or, in some cases, would rather justify it by saying it's okay that they do those things for various absolute bullshit reasons. In a 4H thread, we should be able to talk about what the -4H- have done or are doing that is bad. That's not 'swords drawn.' That's intellectual honesty and not hiding behind fandom to protect shitty people.

And hey, if you have a direct line with Eric and you'd like to bring up their rampant art and IP theft and see what he says - I absolutely encourage you to do so. Somehow I doubt the response will be a public apology and not doing it anymore. But maybe I'm wrong. Either way, the good thing about a smaller company like the 4H, unlike a Disney or an EA, is that individuals (like you) can have a much bigger impact when confronting them. Let us know how it goes. Sincerely.
 
AgentGreen said:
"Aren't you a stay at home action figure reviewer?"
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It's a disappointing insult just because I do enjoy him. He covers a lot of the figures that no one else does unless they also have a potato Nokia phone camera.

He's very thorough like I am as far as being nitpicky with paint jobs and design decisions that most people hand wave or don't care about. And I have to admit he's one of the only people I still subscribe to and follow regularly as opposed to having to look someone up because of a specific drop.

So it's disappointing.

It's also disappointing because if we want to talk about theft, I've made that joke about every Cyclops with that hand, and you can ask my friend chats.

And the superior joke anyway is Gambit because if you think about it, his glove is actually ready to go for coverage, so why are they both so angsty about the touching thing?
 
Damien said:
Absolutely this.
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I was talking about this whole thread with another friend who has similar opinions.

But I kind of want the Neve still. And he's like well, if they're stealing from Disney it's acceptable.

And I get that but they're also still pickpocketing the smaller people at the same time so is that really a gotcha?
 
altcunningham said:
It's a disappointing insult just because I do enjoy him. He covers a lot of the figures that no one else does unless they also have a potato Nokia phone camera.

He's very thorough like I am as far as being nitpicky with paint jobs and design decisions that most people hand wave or don't care about. And I have to admit he's one of the only people I still subscribe to and follow regularly as opposed to having to look someone up because of a specific drop.

So it's disappointing.

It's also disappointing because if we want to talk about theft, I've made that joke about every Cyclops with that hand, and you can ask my friend chats.

And the superior joke anyway is Gambit because if you think about it, his glove is actually ready to go for coverage, so why are they both so angsty about the touching thing?
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Yeah I will say I do like how he does reviews. He's thorough, but also poses his figures well and really shows off what you can do with them. He catches flaws in the engineering and does good comparisons.
 
altcunningham said:
I was talking about this whole thread with another friend who has similar opinions.

But I kind of want the Neve still. And he's like well, if they're stealing from Disney it's acceptable.

And I get that but they're also still pickpocketing the smaller people at the same time so is that really a gotcha?
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Everyone has to draw their own lines. I might get on a moral soapbox, but it's MY soapbox, no one else's. I think part of my big problem with it comes from the fact that the 4H present themselves as these fan-friendly ARTISTS and CREATORS, not 'business tycoons.' But they act like the latter. They're not creative people at all, and artists shouldn't feel entitled to steal someone else's art. It's the LIE of who they are that bothers me more than the acts.
Disney doesn't pretend not to be a giant predator in the megacorp space that will utterly destroy anyone that gets in their way. They almost seem to slather themselves in The Dread of Upsetting The Mouse. They eat up any company smaller than them and stitch that company's intellectual property into their skin like psychotic trophies. But they are, for lack of a better term, honest about what they are.

Does the 4H have the guts to come out and say 'we are not a studio of creators - we are art predators that will steal anything and everything from anywhere in order to make a dollar?' I bet they don't. But like.. that's not gonna bother everyone the way it bothers me. Which is fine, I guess. That's the world we live in.
 
AgentGreen said:
Yeah I will say I do like how he does reviews. He's thorough, but also poses his figures well and really shows off what you can do with them. He catches flaws in the engineering and does good comparisons.
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It's also interesting to me that he is best friends if only performatively for social media, with Hatter.

Because Johnny has some of the best production values in the scene, and Hatter will just run a live stream at 360p from the toilet.
 
Damien said:
Absolutely this.




The first thing here is literally whataboutism, though. We're in the 4H thread, talking about what the 4H did wrong, and the response is "well, what about Disney?" I dunno... what about them? Is there a dearth of places out there talking about how bad Disney is as a corporation? If you make a thread about how bad Disney is, or post about it in the MCU thread, for example, I'm not gonna be like "What about Activision Blizzard?!" Because... what about them? We gotta talk about every company doing something bad in order to talk about -any- company doing something bad?

It goes to the larger point that it feels like most people (not an accusation against you or any other specific individual) would rather just pretend the 4H don't steal from artists, and don't commit IP theft all the time. Or, in some cases, would rather justify it by saying it's okay that they do those things for various absolute bullshit reasons. In a 4H thread, we should be able to talk about what the -4H- have done or are doing that is bad. That's not 'swords drawn.' That's intellectual honesty and not hiding behind fandom to protect shitty people.

And hey, if you have a direct line with Eric and you'd like to bring up their rampant art and IP theft and see what he says - I absolutely encourage you to do so. Somehow I doubt the response will be a public apology and not doing it anymore. But maybe I'm wrong. Either way, the good thing about a smaller company like the 4H, unlike a Disney or an EA, is that individuals (like you) can have a much bigger impact when confronting them. Let us know how it goes. Sincerely.
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But like, as far as I know 4H has never used AI, but you yourself called them an AI company repeatedly. But Hasbro for instance has been caught using AI across their brands, but I don't see that added on as one of their epithets on this board. If anything, I've seen 4H employ artists for their packaging and credit them on their socials and in their streams, as well as hiring people like 1/6th Shooter from the community to take product shots, etc. If there was a company that would openly use AI in place of sculptors, Hasbro would be it. But, like, Eric sculpted all of the horns and scales on their dragon.

So I think there is some important nuance lost in the hyperbole, is all. I haven't been convinced they are a studio of art predators that will steal anything and everything from anywhere in order to make a dollar.

I don't have any particular in with Eric, he wouldn't recognize me from Adam, but I know he has seen some of my work as I've had a couple gigs on a large stage. But if you want to DM me or post the other allegations about art theft I'll bring em up, so long as they are more than source: trust me bro. Bok, it's up to you if you want me to see if they'll credit your wife on their page about the duck guy, but an email from you guys might do the trick as well.
 
Would it help if I threw you an over-used, mis-used, and completely misunderstood platitude like "there is no ethical consumption under Capitalism?"
 
AgentGreen said:
But like, as far as I know 4H has never used AI, but you yourself called them an AI company repeatedly.
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I think you may have missed why I called them that, though.

AgentGreen said:
I haven't been convinced they are a studio of art predators that will steal anything and everything from anywhere in order to make a dollar.
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I'm not trying to convince you. If you don't see it, then you don't see it. I do. I explained my position as well as I have any interest in doing. You either read it and didn't agree, barely read it and didn't agree (seems most likely considering your AI comments), or didn't read it and don't agree. In all three cases there's really not much I can do.

AgentGreen said:
But if you want to DM me or post the other allegations about art theft I'll bring em up, so long as they are more than source: trust me bro.
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It isn't. I already made it crystal clear when I mentioned it earlier that the artist who I know they stole from (whose work is publicly available, so I guess with enough digging you could find it all) does not want to be involved because they are currently a working artist and don't want to be involved in any drama.
I'm not interested in dragging their name into it not only without their express permission, but against their stated wishes. If you think I'm just making that up? Cool. If it seems irrelevant because you can't corroborate? Understandable.

There's other stuff besides that artist, for sure. But forgive me.. I never kept a catalogue of every piece of art I saw and said 'oh, the 4H made a figure of that.' That's not a shot at you. It's -perfectly prudent- to not just take it as fact because I said it. Again, I'm not trying to convince you - I'm telling people what convinced me.
 
altcunningham said:
I was talking about this whole thread with another friend who has similar opinions.

But I kind of want the Neve still. And he's like well, if they're stealing from Disney it's acceptable.

And I get that but they're also still pickpocketing the smaller people at the same time so is that really a gotcha?
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Honestly, if you want her, buy it. All we can do is be self-aware and try to do more good than harm.

[Just deleted a rant about how pretty much everything I love is owned by, produced by, or paid for by some fucking asshole or another but I ain't got it in me anymore.]

Christ, I'm fucking tired of literally every damned thing. This world is hell if you've got a shred of common sense and an ounce of ethics.
 
docsilence said:
Christ, I'm fucking tired of literally every damned thing. This world is hell if you've got a shred of common sense and an ounce of ethics.
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Correct.

As unethical as I actually find this; I've taken to actively avoiding learning anything about authors I enjoy. Like.. no, I just need to like this, please.
 
docsilence said:
Honestly, if you want her, buy it. All we can do is be self-aware and try to do more good than harm.

[Just deleted a rant about how pretty much everything I love is owned by, produced by, or paid for by some fucking asshole or another but I ain't got it in me anymore.]

Christ, I'm fucking tired of literally every damned thing. This world is hell if you've got a shred of common sense and an ounce of ethics.
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I'm going to!

And I know that rant well even before I met you. That's why we all get along.
 
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