Ru1977
The Irishman
Heh, no.
Heh, also no. The show is fan fiction for the movies.
I dunno... it got me to have some emotional moments, both seasons, and that's what matters most to me when watching something.
Articulated Thoughts General Movie News & Discussion
- Thread starter Ru1977
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PantherCult
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Just saw The Accountant 2 with the Missus. I loved it but was surprised at how much my wife raved about it
In full disclosure The Accountant is one of those 'go to' movies for me. I've watched it more than two dozen times, so I was pretty sure I was going to like the sequel. But I really appreciated that it took its time in spots.
Have to wait until tomorrow to see Thunderbolts - my son was busy today and didnt want me to see that without him
In full disclosure The Accountant is one of those 'go to' movies for me. I've watched it more than two dozen times, so I was pretty sure I was going to like the sequel. But I really appreciated that it took its time in spots.
Have to wait until tomorrow to see Thunderbolts - my son was busy today and didnt want me to see that without him
Ru1977
The Irishman
PantherCult
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So I think its interesting that the usual toxic social media types are whining about the Hermione casting. But I expect the Snape casting to be even more controversial. They cast a black actor to play Snape, which will draw the usual hate filled complaints about casting a black actor in a "white role". But I anticipate grumbling from the other side about casting the "bad' character with a black person... 'why not make Dumbledore the black one?' they'll moan pretending this would do anything to advan e race relations.
Its all exhausting... but kind of crazy they are going back to remake this franchise already.
Its all exhausting... but kind of crazy they are going back to remake this franchise already.
Ru1977
The Irishman
I agree it's exhausting and I'm not even trying to pay attention. And I hope these kids do their best not to either. I admit I never read the books. I assume Snape was white in it but I don't see much about race being a necessary part ofany of the characters. Harry needs his mother's eyes though right?
I'm excited to see a new version of it, especially as a series that will have more time to delve in a lot of things apparently omitted from the books with the movies.
I'm excited to see a new version of it, especially as a series that will have more time to delve in a lot of things apparently omitted from the books with the movies.
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They're remaking it largely because of Rowling. She's such a piece of shit scumbag TERF that most people involved in the originals have cut ties with her and the franchise, and refused to take part in any furthering of the property. So she took the opportunity to start over and replace all the actors with those too nameless to dare call her out in public.
And ta-da, you get a new iteration of the most overhyped pile of terrible writing on earth.
joshsquash729
Born on the cob
Such a double-edged sword with the Harry Potter franchise now. It's a series that meant a great deal to me growing up, and I still think its core themes ring true. It's filled with memorable moments and characters that held a special place in my heart- same for the movies. They played such a pivotal role in my upbringing and my creative, artistic journey as well. But I just cannot ever look at JK Rowling the same way again, and it's to the point where I feel like an awful person for even thinking of being excited about new HP stuff. And not even necessarily from the actions of others- I feel that momentary excitement, then realize what horrible things she's said and how people I care about greatly are affected by said comments, and it sours it all for me. At least with the movies, there were so many other people involved, many of whom have come out in defense of the trans community, that it's a bit easier of a pill to swallow.
All that yuck aside- I do hope that people go easy on these poor kids, but as we can already see, that's not the case. I can't fault them for taking the roles- they're iconic roles, like it or not, and it's an instant skyrocket to fame, which any actor would be tempted by, to then use their platform as they see fit. I agree, I don't think many, if any of the book characters have their race specified, even if some are.....uncomfortably obvious to figure out by name alone, like Cho Chang. And before all her current toxicity, Rowling herself even defended making Hermione a black woman in Cursed Child. Obviously these are important characters to a great deal of people, and we all have our preferred versions in our head, but I'm glad to see they didn't just go with the easiest choice across the board; as long as they can play the roles as intended, which they obviously can, then it doesn't really matter to me what anyone looks like. Heck, you could even just stick a ginger wig on a non-redheaded kid for Ron for all I care- it's about selling the role more than a 1:1 match for me.
And while I can obviously see the point of the people online who say they're worried about things like a man of color playing Snape, who is bullying a white boy, or Draco calling a girl of color a Mudblood; part of me thinks it's a good decision- at least on the latter point, that's kinda the whole point of the thing. Draco calling Hermione that slur is supposed to equivalent to a racial or religious slur in a lot of ways. Part of me also thinks that maaaybe it's not that deep? I dunno- obviously racism exists in many many forms, even sneaky ones, and enabling old, outdated tropes is just as harmful, so it's undeniably important to be aware of such things. But sometimes I feel like maybe we bring race into things when it doesn't necessarily need to? I dunno. I don't wanna say anything unsightly or that would send the wrong message. It's a "damned if you do" scenario- if the whole cast was white again, people would complain, they'd complain if too many people were POC, and they'd complain if there was a happy medium, depending on which characters were of color. I'm of the belief that, regardless of what color, sexuality, religion, etc. a character is, making them infallible is also the wrong choice. And I say that as a proud, openly gay man- as nice as it is to see gay characters succeed and be likeable and all that, what I really want is a well-rounded gay character, even if that means they make mistakes or die or what have you.
One thing is for sure- it's a show that's gonna cause a lot of controversy and a lot of discussion. I'm sure my curiosity will get the better of me and I'll check it out. It would undoubtedly be cool to see some parts of the books that didn't make it to screen before.
All that yuck aside- I do hope that people go easy on these poor kids, but as we can already see, that's not the case. I can't fault them for taking the roles- they're iconic roles, like it or not, and it's an instant skyrocket to fame, which any actor would be tempted by, to then use their platform as they see fit. I agree, I don't think many, if any of the book characters have their race specified, even if some are.....uncomfortably obvious to figure out by name alone, like Cho Chang. And before all her current toxicity, Rowling herself even defended making Hermione a black woman in Cursed Child. Obviously these are important characters to a great deal of people, and we all have our preferred versions in our head, but I'm glad to see they didn't just go with the easiest choice across the board; as long as they can play the roles as intended, which they obviously can, then it doesn't really matter to me what anyone looks like. Heck, you could even just stick a ginger wig on a non-redheaded kid for Ron for all I care- it's about selling the role more than a 1:1 match for me.
And while I can obviously see the point of the people online who say they're worried about things like a man of color playing Snape, who is bullying a white boy, or Draco calling a girl of color a Mudblood; part of me thinks it's a good decision- at least on the latter point, that's kinda the whole point of the thing. Draco calling Hermione that slur is supposed to equivalent to a racial or religious slur in a lot of ways. Part of me also thinks that maaaybe it's not that deep? I dunno- obviously racism exists in many many forms, even sneaky ones, and enabling old, outdated tropes is just as harmful, so it's undeniably important to be aware of such things. But sometimes I feel like maybe we bring race into things when it doesn't necessarily need to? I dunno. I don't wanna say anything unsightly or that would send the wrong message. It's a "damned if you do" scenario- if the whole cast was white again, people would complain, they'd complain if too many people were POC, and they'd complain if there was a happy medium, depending on which characters were of color. I'm of the belief that, regardless of what color, sexuality, religion, etc. a character is, making them infallible is also the wrong choice. And I say that as a proud, openly gay man- as nice as it is to see gay characters succeed and be likeable and all that, what I really want is a well-rounded gay character, even if that means they make mistakes or die or what have you.
One thing is for sure- it's a show that's gonna cause a lot of controversy and a lot of discussion. I'm sure my curiosity will get the better of me and I'll check it out. It would undoubtedly be cool to see some parts of the books that didn't make it to screen before.
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I'm a big proponent of the idea that equity in representation means that anyone can be heroic, and anyone can be horrible. The second race, creed, gender identity, or sexual identity become an issue for why a character can or cannot be a good guy or a bad guy- then you're saying that protected group is not equal. It's ridiculous. Write a good character. Only fuckwit shitty people are going to say that a well-written, well-acted villain shouldn't be the bad guy because they were gay and therefore you're saying all gay people are villains, or some shit.
Even half-way intelligent people can see the difference between a character who is a thing, and a character who the author intends to represent all of that thing -- if that makes sense.
An interesting discussion to have around Harry Potter since that bitch definitely has some racism and general prejudice issues she needs to work out. Her books are fucking gross.
joshsquash729
Born on the cob
I don't disagree with a lot of the points. Don't water down a character or make them a saint just because they're X thing- that sends the wrong message too and can be just as harmful. I do think that nowadays a lot of times, people do truly want to do good and stand for minorities and marginalized groups, but they often err on the side of caution too much. And I say that as someone who's done a lot of charity work for many different causes and, intentionally or not, overdid it with my virtue signaling a bit. Sometimes we're so quick to speak up for others that we fail to see we're stifling their voices in the process.
Look, I cannot stand the woman, and even typing out her name fills me with a disgust and profound sadness that I can't quite fully comprehend. Talk about a heel turn and betraying your fanbase. Makes me even more sad to see how many people defend her. And I know that large part of why the discussion is what it currently is is because of her- in this case, it's very hard to separate the art from the artist, when the new version of the art seems to be almost single-handedly fueled by the artist's need to bury the old art because some members of it spoke out on beliefs she doesn't like. I think if this was a normal franchise, we'd still be seeing such discussions, but nowhere near with as much vitriol.
On some levels, I feel bad for the kids and other cast members of the new show- there's absolutely no way their performances will be able to stand on their own. They're always going to be judged alongside the shadow that has been cast over everything, and they'll have to spend unfathomable amounts of time defending themselves. For some of the adult actors, that might be a fair question- again, I can get why you'd take the role from a creative standpoint- would you turn down making your dream come true? I can't necessarily say I'd instantly turn down the offer, but if I did take it, I'd spend twice the amount of time making up for it and proving that I'm doing it for the art, and not because I agree with the artist- doing things like spreading the good word, donating to and lifting charities and artists that stand for equality, etc. I don't quite know if I hold the child actors at quite the same level, though; as much as I'd love for kids to be up to date on all the nuances of such a debate (and, granted, many are), I can't fault them for just following their passions, and part of me wants to even protect them from the gross, albeit important, discussions.
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Absolutely. And it can come also at the expense of stifling their existence in media, because we feel the need to 'protect' everyone from being seen negatively. I'm an easy target here, given that I'm a straight cis male of median income. It's tempting if I were to write a book to be SUPER careful and aware of not writing THIS character in THAT way to the point where it becomes obvious that I'm hedging around making X or Y a bad person or whatever. I think the only thing we owe it to ourselves to avoid is letting characters become social stereotypes. But even then - so I can't write a flamboyantly gay man in my book? Why? The answer is - because who I am in real life informs how people will view the characters I write and even if I'm writing the character exactly as I think it should be written, it will SEEM as though I'm relying on stereotypes.
It's a tough situation for sure.
That being said, I think most people are capable of taking a work of fiction in a holistic way. That is, if a book has two gay characters and one is a villain, we kind of instinctively don't make the connection that the author is trying to say 'gay=bad' in the same way we would if the only major villain was also the only openly gay character. If that makes sense.
Nor should they. It is what it is. The child actors are a different issue because that's super complicated by whether they even want to be doing it or whether they even can have informed consent on something like this. The adult actors? Fuck 'em. They know what they're getting into. I feel no sympathy at all. MANY of us could sell our souls for a chance at success and don't do it. If they're comfortable doing it, they can be comfortable with the consequences. I genuinely, sincerely, do not give a fuck. Facts don't care about your feelings, I heard someone say. Rowling is scum and anyone choosing to work directly under her to re-create her more perfect vision of her weirdly racist, aggressively prejudiced little story doesn't get any sympathy from me. At all.
I'm sure Hitler paid well too (I just won the Internet, I think, by mentioning Hitler... that's how it works, right?).
No new ideas are allowed in modern Hollywood. HBO made the same decision with Westeros. They'd rather go back to the George RR Martin well than make a show based on any of the hundreds of other great fantasy books. The result—House of the Dragon—is Not Very Good.
I haven't read the Potter books since I was a preteen. I maintain that they're actually pretty good despite some obvious flaws. We can admit that Rowling is a heinous person without denigrating her work. I'd say the same for Roman Polanski and Chinatown or Louis CK and Louie or his comedy.
How you enjoy the art, whether you can take value from it, or whether you should participate in it at all are separate questions. That gets back to separating the art from the artist. I leave that up to the individual. I can't listen to Michael Jackson anymore, but I don't begrudge those who do.
I'm the same way with HP. That series was one of the bedrocks of my childhood. I can't return to it or think of it the same way anymore.
I won't watch this new show because Rowling is the world's preeminent transphobe. She's decided to use her platform and infinite wealth to do harm. I won't do anything to support her anymore.
PantherCult
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So... on the one hand the Harry Potter books are a fun romp through a magical world with interesting twists and turns.
There are some who say Rowling borrowed heavily from existing sources and that her world of Harry Potter wasnt quite as inventive as she is sometimes credited with. I don't tend to agree overmuch with that, outside of the use of "chosen one" tropes common to much fiction aimed at youth.
What is undeniable is her lazy, borderline racist naming of the minor supporting characters. I tend to think the naming was more lazy - and obvious - but that laziness definitely strayed into insensitivity on a cople of occasions.
Cho Chang is a terrible lazy "asian" name with Cho being Korean and Chang being Chinese. Apparently Rowling is on record as considering her Korean, though why she wouldnt get a common Korean surname (Kim, Choi, Park, Kang, Jang, Hwang, Lee - there are many good ones to choose from) is baffling.
Lee Jordan - black kid using the surnames of Spike Lee and Michael Jordan - again reeks of laziness rather than racism.
Kingsley Shacklebolt as one of the other black characters feels a tad more problematic...
But so many of the other names reek of pure laziness
Irish guy - Seamus Finnegan
Indian girls - Padma and Parvati Patil
Jewish Kid - Goldstein
Werewolf - remus lupin - the name literally means "wolf wolf"
So while I think Rowling is an awful person who has shit opinions and isn't worth listening to at all - I tend not to think she's being racist as much as she's lazy and unimaginative in generating character names
There are some who say Rowling borrowed heavily from existing sources and that her world of Harry Potter wasnt quite as inventive as she is sometimes credited with. I don't tend to agree overmuch with that, outside of the use of "chosen one" tropes common to much fiction aimed at youth.
What is undeniable is her lazy, borderline racist naming of the minor supporting characters. I tend to think the naming was more lazy - and obvious - but that laziness definitely strayed into insensitivity on a cople of occasions.
Cho Chang is a terrible lazy "asian" name with Cho being Korean and Chang being Chinese. Apparently Rowling is on record as considering her Korean, though why she wouldnt get a common Korean surname (Kim, Choi, Park, Kang, Jang, Hwang, Lee - there are many good ones to choose from) is baffling.
Lee Jordan - black kid using the surnames of Spike Lee and Michael Jordan - again reeks of laziness rather than racism.
Kingsley Shacklebolt as one of the other black characters feels a tad more problematic...
But so many of the other names reek of pure laziness
Irish guy - Seamus Finnegan
Indian girls - Padma and Parvati Patil
Jewish Kid - Goldstein
Werewolf - remus lupin - the name literally means "wolf wolf"
So while I think Rowling is an awful person who has shit opinions and isn't worth listening to at all - I tend not to think she's being racist as much as she's lazy and unimaginative in generating character names
joshsquash729
Born on the cob
The line between ignorance and hatred is a fine one indeed. I know smart racists exist, but most of the people with awful, hate-fueled opinions I know or have seen are ones who think they're a lot more educated than they really are.
Chooch555
Thoughtful
I'm happy to separate art from artist for the most part, so I personally have no issue watching the new show. I really don't think they're rebooting because of J.K. though. Zaslav and WB (and studios in general) have shown that they'll continue to draw as much blood from their existing IP stones as possible. The morality of the original author only factors in so far as "would bringing up that marketing angle get us more eyeballs?"
Chooch555
Thoughtful
But let's talk about the real problem with the Harry Potter franchise: Dumbledore was a straight-up villain willing to gaslight children as he sent them off to be sacrificed.