Mattel DC Figures

I don't know what we can expect for wave size from Mattel but I'd be fine with a formula that includes something like 2 well known anchors, a couple of mid level (B, C tier) characters and one really deep cut character every wave. It's those deep cuts that I'm really personally interested in and one per wave would be enough keep me fully engaged with the new line (although I'd love more than that, of course).
 
Reading over the last several pages, it seems like everyone has an opinion or an idea. All equally valid. And the almost inescapable conclusion that I come to is that no matter what Mattel does, we (adult collectors) will remain unsatisfied for the most part.

Mattel in many ways would be better off to just write us off. Forget we exist. No upside to having us.
 
Reading over the last several pages, it seems like everyone has an opinion or an idea. All equally valid. And the almost inescapable conclusion that I come to is that no matter what Mattel does, we (adult collectors) will remain unsatisfied for the most part.

Mattel in many ways would be better off to just write us off. Forget we exist. No upside to having us.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true, but I do think that they have to set themselves apart in some way, shape, or form from what’s come before in the last 25+ years. You’re asking collectors to buy into yet another DC line. You’ve got to give them a compelling reason to do that, especially in today’s economic conditions. You’ve got to give them the best DC line ever made, even if that includes pumping out 153 different versions of Batman along the way. I’m not asking Mattel NOT to make 153 different versions of Batman. I’m asking them to make one version of Shadow Lass…and get it right the first time.
 
To be entirely fair to Mattel... DCUC1 was fucking Red Tornado, ETRIGAN, Orion.... and then Penguin (actually kind of a weird choice as well) and Batman. With a Metamorpho BAF. Firestorm came out as early as wave 2. Killer Moth was in wave 6. If you think about it, that's actually kind of a wild line-up.

DC has the same problem as Marvel; there are so many characters that can qualify as A and B list that you really DO need to get out there in the world. The reality is, no line can or should predicate itself on what other companies have done before. "Oh, you guys already have Batman." Nah, they GOTTA make Batman. We all know it. Lots of DC collectors aren't even going to look at a DC line that doesn't include a decent Batman figure. Say that again for basically every 'big' name.

So the reality becomes trying to weave lower-tier characters into a line where, almost by necessity, a lot of each wave is going to be taken up by bigger names. Because as much as you or I will complain about wanting this or that deep-cut character, loads more people will complain if they can't, for example, complete their main idea of the Justice League within 10 waves.

Do you remember how fucking angry people were that it took 15 waves to get to Martian Manhunter in DCUC? Pepperidge Farms remembers. I also remember people bitching and moaning that we got Harley so early, but didn't get Joker until what.. wave 10 or something?

I don't envy the people in charge of making collector-focused retail lines for Marvel or DC. It must be an absolute nightmare of 'want to make this, but HAVE to make this.'

Oh, DCUC could be very self-indulgent but most of its lineups can't be accused of too much safety. I think they often went too far in the opposite direction, honestly. That line could have benefited from more A-list variants in a Marvel Legends kind of way; maybe it would have improved the line's longevity if its Cyclotrons were more Batmen instead.

I think one of the reasons for that might have been that it was launching off the success of a more dedicated Batman/Superman line. Mattel almost had a weird, "Oh, you guys already have Batman" stance about their own previous line! And that didn't just impact the number of Batmen and Supermen, but major supporting cast and villains either didn't get made, took ages to show up, or only arrived as repaints or re-releases from the DC Superheroes line, usually in multi-pack formats. Even that Penguin had originally been meant for the DC Superheroes line.

But judging by Mattel's character selection for the new line, I think they're in a pretty good place about structuring these waves? Every choice seems sensible and Deathstroke hitting so early even in this format tells me that there's at least some focus on toyetic characters who aren't total household names, as popular as he is with comics nerds. I could do with a female character, like I'd absolutely be showing off a Supergirl asap, but this feels better structured than DCUC or Todd's stuff was on launch. My own shelves are very much a C-list fiesta, but you need a really stable, steady line to get that stuff out there without compromising line health. If they can entrench this thing early, we actually could get that DC Legends line that goes on basically forever like we all seem to be hoping.
 
Change can be scary, I suppose.

Although when talking about “adult collectors” some of us need to remember that an “adult collector” might not be in their 40s/50s with a huge amount of toy-baggage. An adult collector could be a person in their 20s who never had a chance to build a DC figure collection and is just starting.

I think some of us say “adult” and mean “late-middle aged men”.
🤷‍♂️
 
Do you remember how fucking angry people were that it took 15 waves to get to Martian Manhunter in DCUC? Pepperidge Farms remembers. I also remember people bitching and moaning that we got Harley so early, but didn't get Joker until what.. wave 10 or something?
I do. I also remember making the case at the time for completing teams early because none of us truly know how many waves a line has left including those who are overseeing it. That was in the late ‘00s though. Lines have become more resilient since then, probably because we no longer have to rely almost exclusively on brick and mortar big box retailers to get our figures.
I don't envy the people in charge of making collector-focused retail lines for Marvel or DC. It must be an absolute nightmare of 'want to make this, but HAVE to make this.'
It’s really not that hard. Of course you lean on your A-listers, and when it comes to building out teams, you pick an era and stick with it. Consistency is the key in my book. I think if collectors have a pretty good idea of what they can expect and when they can expect it, they will be surprisingly patent.

Well, some of them anyway. 😛
 
Change can be scary, I suppose.

Although when talking about “adult collectors” some of us need to remember that an “adult collector” might not be in their 40s/50s with a huge amount of toy-baggage. An adult collector could be a person in their 20s who never had a chance to build a DC figure collection and is just starting.

I think some of us say “adult” and mean “late-middle aged men”.
🤷‍♂️
Yes, that’s pretty much my own personal definition. I’m sure if I was even 10 years younger, my attitude and perspective towards this new line would be much different. My ass is tired. 😛
 
My ass is tired.
Title of your sex tape.



Reading over the last several pages, it seems like everyone has an opinion or an idea. All equally valid. And the almost inescapable conclusion that I come to is that no matter what Mattel does, we (adult collectors) will remain unsatisfied for the most part.
Totally accurate.


Mattel in many ways would be better off to just write us off. Forget we exist. No upside to having us.
I know you're being facetious, but still - no, not at all. Because this implies that Mattel cares if we're all happy or complaining. I promise you that they do not. If the sales are there, that's all that matters. It is a fool's game to try to make any toyline that will make collectors happy. Just make toys people want to buy and tune out as much of the senseless complaining as you can.
Mattel's biggest problem is that they're TOO good at that and end up filtering out the valid complaints as well.


Although when talking about “adult collectors” some of us need to remember that an “adult collector” might not be in their 40s/50s with a huge amount of toy-baggage. An adult collector could be a person in their 20s who never had a chance to build a DC figure collection and is just starting.

This is definitely an issue we have to get past, where we think of new lines in terms of 'well, why would I, who has three full collections of the previous lines, want this?' When, in reality, it's not for you, and in fact you are not even representative of most collectors in your own age group.

It’s really not that hard. Of course you lean on your A-listers, and when it comes to building out teams, you pick an era and stick with it. Consistency is the key in my book. I think if collectors have a pretty good idea of what they can expect and when they can expect it, they will be surprisingly patent.
See, you say it's not that hard. But then you describe an approach I disagree with and, as a collector, would hate. As would any collector, I expect, that wants the teams and era you don't want and don't think is important enough to start with.



That line could have benefited from more A-list variants in a Marvel Legends kind of way; maybe it would have improved the line's longevity if its Cyclotrons were more Batmen instead.
Let's be clear; Scott killed DCUC with the rainbow Lanterns. That's just a factual statement. It was Scott's own self-indulgent narcissism that killed DCUC. So it's actually hard to criticize the line earlier on because clearly the formula was pretty good and people were fairly happy with it until it was self-sufficient enough that Mattel kind of let Scott have the reins a lot more, thinking the line was kind of too big to fail. And that is why Scott is still struggling to find any employement in the toy business.


But judging by Mattel's character selection for the new line, I think they're in a pretty good place about structuring these waves? Every choice seems sensible and Deathstroke hitting so early even in this format tells me that there's at least some focus on toyetic characters who aren't total household names, as popular as he is with comics nerds.
You're probably forgetting that one of the most popular kid-centric pieces of DC media is Teen Titans Go!, where Slade has made appearances. They can absolutely rely on the idea that kids/young adults know who Deathstroke is.

But also, yeah, that line-up still doesn't really tell us much about what to expect from the collector line(s). We'll just have to wait and see. Mattel managed a good balance for a few years with DCUC. I'm sure they can do it again. The problem is, as in all the conversation above, NO line can make all the collectors happy. Someone is going to be pissed. Someone is going to feel left out. Probably everyone will feel that way, really, to varying degrees. But Marvel Legends is HAMMERING product out and is probably the benchmark now for what corporations want to accomplish with a toyline -- and people bitch about Marvel Legends fucking constantly.
 
I'll come down on the pro-stick with an era and finish a team side on this one. Admittedly, if they start with a New 52 JLA I'll have to wait longer to hopefully see a full Morrison JLA, but a Satellite Green Arrow with a New 52 Batman and a Zero Hour Hawkman makes me think they'll never try to finish a team ever. It's like when someone gets a marble cake thinking they'll make fans of chocolate and yellow happy whereas everyone just leaves your party disappointed.
 
If they did a "stick with an era" thing, that would probably be really bad for sales. Say they decide to go all-in on New 52 Justice League off the bat, you'll have one segment of collectors happily rushing out to buy them all, then quitting when that era is exhausted. In the meantime, you have WAY more collectors not buying anything at all, because New 52 isn't their preferred era. Do those people jump on board when they move past New 52? Maybe, but more likely they take the attitude that they haven't bought any of the figures in the line so far, so best not to start now.

By mixing eras, they get consistent sales because people are going to buy the characters to build the teams they want...and they just may wind up buying one or two others from different eras that are in the same wave. There are the folks who might buy a character that may not fit their preferred era, but they get it because hey...they're already buying most of the wave...might as well grab this one too. Entire waves are far easier to skip when they are all from some specific time period (a perfect example is when DCUC did their "Rainbow Lanterns" waves. I think those were the first waves where I didn't buy ANY of the figures, because I just had no desire to have things like Star Sapphire Wonder Woman.
 
If they did a "stick with an era" thing, that would probably be really bad for sales. Say they decide to go all-in on New 52 Justice League off the bat, you'll have one segment of collectors happily rushing out to buy them all, then quitting when that era is exhausted. In the meantime, you have WAY more collectors not buying anything at all, because New 52 isn't their preferred era. Do those people jump on board when they move past New 52? Maybe, but more likely they take the attitude that they haven't bought any of the figures in the line so far, so best not to start now.

By mixing eras, they get consistent sales because people are going to buy the characters to build the teams they want...and they just may wind up buying one or two others from different eras that are in the same wave. There are the folks who might buy a character that may not fit their preferred era, but they get it because hey...they're already buying most of the wave...might as well grab this one too. Entire waves are far easier to skip when they are all from some specific time period (a perfect example is when DCUC did their "Rainbow Lanterns" waves. I think those were the first waves where I didn't buy ANY of the figures, because I just had no desire to have things like Star Sapphire Wonder Woman.
Bingo.

And, whether certain collectors like it or not, this is just straight up a proven formula. Virtually every successful modern toyline uses it. They're not going to change this approach just because a bunch of collectors would prefer it otherwise, when even those collectors probably wouldn't be able to agree on what they WOULD want.
 
Another somewhat overlooked aspect of the DCUC autopsy is the almost cult like devotion to Super Powers. Then conflating that with Super Friends and overlapping the two. On top of that, the devotees were insisting/demanding that these characters be front loaded. Ultimately leading to Gleek-Gate and all the ill will it generated.

Anyone notice how DCUC shut down once the Super Powers characters were realized? Do we really believe that this decision making process has been addressed and altered? Neitlich and the 4H are gone. What about upper management?
 
Starting with JLA was probably a bad example. I could see mixing eras within a wave like a Bronze aged Teen Titan, with a modern Bat villain, a 90's Superman, and a 2000s JSA member - etc. Then next time someone from those teams/groups appear in a wave they stick with the era. Maybe the idea just works better at Marvel where there seem to be more fleshed out categories - or just that they've been around longer.
 
Anyone notice how DCUC shut down once the Super Powers characters were realized? Do we really believe that this decision making process has been addressed and altered? Neitlich and the 4H are gone. What about upper management?
Obviously, this calls for a full investigation!

We’re gonna need top men.

Top.
Men.
 
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