Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

AceofKnaves said:
It’s not so much the killing itself, it’s that said killing is either lionized or else glossed over.
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Right, I definitely see your point. That was part of why I quit watching The Walking Dead as almost everyone they met had to be killed. No wonder they were airing anti immigrant commercials during that hour.

And a lot of viewers have a cavalier attitude as well. "Why don't they just kill that guy?! I would kill that guy" etc, completely divorced from reality. Or maybe not! I dunno.
AceofKnaves said:
Wolverine
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Right, what he does isn't pretty. His slogan actually points out how bad it is.
AceofKnaves said:
In my view, the MCU films tend to treat their heroes as killers with a shrug or a cheer.
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Yeah definitely. Eh, Stane got electrocuted, let's do a press conference. Oh, the rage monster spared Abomination at least. And Thor was devastated when he thought Loki died. Each time! Heh.
 
I guess I don't have that reaction to Stark in the MCU - he is a smug, arrogant, self-absorbed jerk at first - wealthy because he manufactures weapons but apparently never though too much about who was using them. Then he starts his hero path, dealing with PTSD and fears about threats to the Earth, that leads to alcohol and then overreaction with his 50 IM suits and Ultron. All of that is part of his character arc, as he ends up a father who sacrifices himself for the greater good. I don't think we are supposed to like Stark at first. But I believed he was a better man by the end.

I think what is interesting about Walker Cap is that the "heroes" did him dirty just for even taking on the cap role - both Bucky and Sam were hostile to him due to misguided respect for Steve. He was in over his head and instead of helping the good guys made it harder for him. I find him to be a sympathetic character ultimately.

I do agree though, in films in particular the heroes tend to kill with limited to no remorse or concern. I don't care for that either, and I dislike vigilante characters for this reason. Its why I never was upset that Lucas decided to have Han shoot second - since I believe Lucas did so because once he saw how many kids had Han as a hero and he didn't want his hero to be the shoot first type.
 
One of the biggest things with MCU Stark is his "Marvel flaw" isn't really that he has a bad heart is that he thinks he is the smartest guy in the room and treats everyone else accordingly. His central metaphor is he tells Cap he wouldn't lie on the wire for others he would Kobayashi Maru his way out of it. One of the biggest shames is that the MCU never got to the point that he would meet Reed; someone clearly smarter than him and see how he would deal with that blow to his ego. The closest they got is when Rockets tells him he's only a genius on earth.

Just for the record Sauron doesn't "die" when the ring is destroyed. He is cursed to an eternity of lack of corporeality and lingers as a shapeless formless shadow that has no potency or power. A shadow that can at best go meekily bump in the night.
 
PanchaMaestro said:
Just for the record Sauron doesn't "die" when the ring is destroyed. He is cursed to an eternity of lack of corporeality and lingers as a shapeless formless shadow that has no potency or power. A shadow that can at best go meekily bump in the night.
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PanchaMaestro said:
His central metaphor is he tells Cap he wouldn't lie on the wire for others he would Kobayashi Maru his way out of it.
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Which he believed, until he faced the scenario where he couldn't do that to get out of it, and he stepped up with the ultimate sacrifice.

To me, his arc intertwined with Steve's arc (who initially felt less of Tony for that position, but decided after Endgame that he deserved the opportunity to be happy with Peggy even if it possibly meant not being the hero anymore, which one might view as the very Tony reaction) of them both starting at odds but ultimately switching roles, is what elevated the whole Infinity Saga beyond just cool comic book movies.
 
In the figure thread we were just talking about Michael Mando coming back, and now there's a rumor about him negotiating for the new movie, and Tombstone and Boomerang are also rumored now.
 
Ru1977 said:
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Daredevil also makes a big deal about it.

I definitely get having an issue with a lot of heroes having a cavalier attitude with killing their villains off, but Thanos isn't a great example. Once in a while you'll get something like Homecoming though, where Peter does everything he possibly can to save Vulture.
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I know, I know. I really need to (and have been wanting to) rewatch it. Been all over the place the last couple years with my ADHD meds going in and out of stock; knock on wood, I'm just now starting to kinda level out, which is freeing up some mental capacity, so I hope to be able to sit still in my own place for 3 hours soon. 😅

Agreed about the one-and-done villains, though, and I do think that, for the most part, Marvel has kinda learned their lesson in that regard. Even pre-MCU superhero movies were guilty of that- all 3 Spidey films (Sandman aside), the Nolan Batman movies, etc. I also wonder how much of that is just the classic American way of thinking. We sure do love justice and comeuppance, and for some reason, a lot of people in the general audience only think a hero has won if the villain can never hurt anyone again. We love our "happy" endings, but we're definitely starting to lean away from that in many regards

Ru1977 said:
In the figure thread we were just talking about Michael Mando coming back, and now there's a rumor about him negotiating for the new movie, and Tombstone and Boomerang are also rumored now.
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Hadn't seen that! That's exciting, regarding the return! Trying not to get my hopes up just in case, but that would be a lovely, long overdue payoff. As long as they actually devote time to it and don't just close that storyline with a quick opening scene or something.
 
Right, probably can blame 80s action movies where due process went out the window and all you needed was a sweet catchphrase before blowing the guy away.
 
Well, crap. Changes.

It's official. Disney and Marvel Studios have announced that Avengers: Doomsday has been moved from May 1, 2026 to December 18, 2026. Avengers: Secret Wars, meanwhile, will now open on December 17, 2027 after it was originally scheduled for May 7, 2027.

I'm actually okay with this. It gives Marvel more time for post production and it also allows other stars to join the cast of both films. Maybe Tom Holland will be in Doomsday, after all.

Also, that Untitled Marvel movie that was on the schedule for February 13th, 2026 has been removed. I figured that was going to happen so no surprise there. And untitled Marvel movies that were scheduled for November 6th 2026 and November 5th 2027 have been amended to "Untitled Disney films".

So here's where we're at as of right now:

Phase Five

66. Ironheart - June 24th, 2025

Phase Six

67. Fantastic Four: First Steps - July 25th, 2025
68. Wonder Man - December, 2025
69. Daredevil Born Again Season Two - March, 2026
70. Spider-Man: Brand New Day - July 26th, 2026
71. Avengers: Doomsday - December 18th, 2026
72. Avengers: Secret Wars - December 17th, 2027

Phase Seven (?)

73. Untitled Marvel Studios Film - February 18th, 2028
74. Untitled Marvel Studios Film - May 5th, 2028
75. Untitled Marvel Studios Film - November 10th, 2028
 
Looking at that list, it's notable that Spider-Man: Brand New Day no longer comes out between Doomsday and Secret Wars. Maybe ... just maybe, mind you ... we'll get a street level Spider-Man story after all. A big screen Spidey-Daredevil team up is something I've dreamed about since I was a kid (And that was a long damn time ago). Throw Punisher, Kingpin and The Defenders in there and that would be Amazing (Spectacular? Sensational?).

But I don't know if Sony would go along with that and they have a lot of say so. If there's a team up to be had, it'll probably be Spidey, Venom, Mobius, Kraven and Madame Web. How fun.
 
And while I'm musing ...

The timing of this announcement seems a little odd. A Thursday evening in late May? It seems kind of ... random.

I mean, Marvel was just at a big comic con in Japan a couple of weeks ago. They had a huge Doomsday display there.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922126660586852800

I have to wonder if the delay is Marvel's idea. Could Sony be pushing this? Or higher ups at Disney?

Well, regardless, it's above my pay grade. I still think it'll work out for the best.
 
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The rumored villains makes Brand New Day seem kinda streetish at least.

And supposedly, they're still working out Holland's contract for Doomsday so maybe that's part of the delay...
 
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