Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

SDcomics said:
The rumor du jour: A teaser for Avengers Doomsday will play before Avatar Fire and Ash in December.

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AVENGERS: DOOMSDAY Trailer Description Reveals A Big Doctor Doom Twist: "[Downey] Went Full Universal Monster"

A possible description for the Avengers: Doomsday trailer expected to play in front of Avatar: Fire and Ash has been revealed, and it both reveals what we'll see and an interesting Doctor Doom twst...
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Interesting. Still think this will be...
...some alternate version of Stark. Maybe he doesn't escape from the 10 Rings unscathed to become Iron Man in the first place, Loki and the Chitauri won? Or maybe he tried to use the gauntlet against Thanos and failed, but he survived in a universe where Thanos won and Pepper and his daughter were snapped? Play into his instinct to build an armor to keep himself alive, his overconfidence in himself, his desire to control things - what does that man become if he fails at being a hero?
 
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I will be absolutely crestfallen if Doom is anyone but Victor Von Doom. Any direct connection to Tony Stark will make me *furious*.
 
Interesting, as to me it could play directly into your view of who Stark was in the MCU (arrogant, fascist), just with no constraints and fueled by anger or despair. Kind of how in What If? they made a version of Dr Strange who became obsessed the bad guy. Maybe a Stark who couldn't use technology to change the past, so he tries sorcery?

I wouldn't even be thinking about this apart from the casting of course and honestly your take on Stark. But given the casting, and the fact that Doom is so far a non-entity in the MCU, I think there is meat on that bone of Dark Tony.
 
Doctor Doom is my favorite Marvel character. My *only* stake in this film is him finally being done well and in-character. I don’t have any stake in the MCU narrative at all, I can’t stress enough that I have absolutely zero investment in the overall story of the films, so I’m just here for a good Doom.

And, honestly, I think the comic version of Doom would be disgusted by MCU Tony Stark.

Regardless, Tony Stark is not Victor Von Doom, nor should he be. If Doom is a Stark variant, I’ll walk out of the film.

Now, if they reveal that MCU Stark was a flawed DOOM variant . . . well, that could redeem the whole MCU for me. But really, honestly, I’m beyond tired of the “variant” thing. I want DOCTOR DOOM, the monarch of Latveria, the master of science and sorcery, son of Cynthia, rival of Reed Richards, arrogant but *noble*, a prisoner of his obsession with revenge and control. MCU Stark is too small, too weak, too sniveling and insignificant to be Doom.
 
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United States of Tara fans, unite! She's one of my favorite actresses; she's so good in everything. I hate that she's been treated so poorly by the loudest, most annoying, most ignorant parts of this fandom. She became a pariah for saying film critics are overwhelmingly white and male, which is true. Which demographic was responsible for the "anti-woke" backlash against Captain Marvel? (And Eternals, and She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, and The Marvels, and Ironheart, and every other MCU project that doesn't have a white male protagonist?)
 
United States of Tara was a great show, and one that I keep recommending to friends even after all this time. Getting Toni Collette in the MCU somehow would be divine, preferably as a villain.

Brie Larson was the template for Rachel Zegler in a lot of ways, it feels like- where her only crime was refusing to take shit from toxic fanboys. You don't have to like either of them, but neither one, to my knowledge, has really done anything that egregious, and I continue to enjoy watching both. It's not Brie's fault that the character, as written, is a bit dry, but I feel like she makes her as charming as she can. With all the witty humor we get elsewhere in the MCU, it's nice to have someone who's a little more grounded with their sense of humor.
 
I really am not sure what she and the directors were trying to do with the Capt. Marvel character at times - Larson is just very low key and serious in the role that I felt it held back what I think is her more natural charisma/spark. They show briefly that she could have fun in flashbacks in the first film, and here and there for brief moments, but I don't think they did enough to show that the Kree really suppressed/killed her more outgoing/independent nature in order to make her more Kree-like (if that was the goal). I also felt they needed to do more with her trying to bridge the divide with Monica in the second film, or the fact she was leading a lonely existence it seemed and that Kamala shouldn't idolize that, but they glossed over all of that - what is her life like? They haven't even addressed why she isn't aging, which while not a major issue could at least be some character development for her - that she and Capt. Trouble now seem to be the same age when she was as old her Mom when they first met.

So separate from the crazies backlash, I think the writing and the acting choices haven't well served people embracing the character - I get what JoshSquash is saying about someone more grounded but I think they overdid it - she doesn't need quips but she seems emotionless too often to me. I hope she gets a final story and some closure to her arc and we learn a bit more about her. She needs a scene or two with some meat to it about how her life was stolen and was replaced with this amazing power and what that did to her. (Not exactly like the scene with Yelena and Red Guardian in Thunderbolts, but in that vein; she never had the equivalent "I had a date" line like Steve did that really hit home the upheaval in her life; she never had the Thor reaction to having all that power but it not being enough to fix the Skrulls, or what it really meant to her that she inadvertently cause so much damage to the Kree.)
 
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I do want to add two things - although there is certainly a vocal anti-woke fanbase, I do think it is unfair to paint a broad brush that the "demographic" of males and especially white males have not been fans/supporters of many of those films mentioned - I have to assume the the majority of ticket sales and TV viewers to any superhero film is male, and of the males the majority are white (at least in the US and Europe) - maybe with some rare exceptions. Basically, to suggest that this backlash is the prevailing attitude amongst "white men" has to be overdone given who is seeing the films. I think any stereotyping and dismissing of a group of people based on the actions of a subset is a real problem regardless of who the group is that it is directed at.

Secondly, and this may be hard to explain well, but I am absolutely fascinated by the subgroup of "fans" who are complaining about attractive women being featured in these films. This so goes against the history of sci-fi and fantasy film male heterosexual fandom - for the longest time pretty much any attractive woman - regardless of any actual acting ability or necessity to the plot - got an over-the-top amount of attention from the fans and could sell out autographs and have people buy headshots and "take a picture with booths" and so on at cons and appearances and have fans complaining they weren't on screen more. Basically these women were put on a pedestal just for being in sci-fi and fantasy films. I am not sure of the Venn diagram for this, but how that drooling subset of fans objectifying any woman in a genre film morphed into a subset of angry fans mad that we have (attractive) women (in spandex) featured in these films baffles me.
 
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