U.S. Politics

TheSameIdiot

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I'd like to keep discussion of fascist creep separate from tariff talk where possible.

They're kidnapping legal U.S. residents and selling them to a slave labor prison in El Salvador. I worked through a pandemic and an insurrection, but this is making me feel as though I've lost my mind. I couldn't help but bring it up at work today.

The Supreme Court ordered the release of Abrego Garcia and the Trump administration refused. It's a Constitutional crisis. If they can disappear Abrego Garcia without cause, they can disappear you or I without cause.

 
Absolutely vile and there are certainly days when I have trouble understanding how the armed men and women of the secret service haven't just gunned down Trump and his entire cabinet by now. They're all so shamelessly lying and flouting every law we have and everyone just stands around golf-clapping for them.

I wish I could see I never expected to see this in my lifetime. But I did. In fact, I'd argue that this is where the Republican party has been going for my entire life, while Democrats have been very consistent about doing absolutely nothing about it. In fact, I'd argue that Democrats are almost equally culpable in all of this and have actually facilitated the Republican rise to power. I'd even argue it was intentional (even if they never intended it to get THIS bad because they're all inexplicably stupid as fuck).

Is it strange to say I almost feel like I have survivor's guilt right now? Like, I'm up here in Canada watching my country absolutely crumble under fascist dictatorship. People I care about, and people I don't know but feel a very loose kinship with, are suffering. It's very hard to watch and I can't ever seem to shake the feeling that -I- should be doing something, and if I'm not doing something I should be in my country living this with other Americans. Which is also super weird because I am not a patriotic or nationalistic person. I can't really explain it.
 
It’s hard not to think about and hard not to be equally afraid and pissed off. I don’t know how this is going to shake out but it’s so dire already.

The only politician I’ve ever stumped for was Bernie Sanders, in two election cycles. Makes me think of what could have been. He and a very few others are still fighting but we need congress to grow a friggin’ spine and do more than hold up little signs. That is not dissent.

Also, the media sucks so hard and is complicit in what is going on. It’s sickening how quickly morality is cast aside for self enrichment/preservation. I’m just hoping that we citizens keep taking it to the street and are numerous enough and loud enough to force some kind of action.
 
Is it strange to say I almost feel like I have survivor's guilt right now? Like, I'm up here in Canada watching my country absolutely crumble under fascist dictatorship.
Must be kind of like watching the Titanic sink from the safety of the lifeboats. But then you have to wonder if the suction of it going down will pull the other boats down with it. I think the potential economic effects of this administration's policies will be felt far outside of the United States.
 
This would be the time for more emojis perhaps.

I really have no words. I'm coming back from Ireland in a couple days but maybe I shouldn't.
 
I don’t block folks on social media unless 1) I’m asked to by someone in my circle who has been abused by said person or 2) that one time when an actual J6 terrorist started spamming me, and then successfully reported me for bullying when I said “fuck off, terrorist” to him. Soooo I have a couple of MAGA cultists on my feed (all the more horrifying because they are theatre people) and I get to “see” what they think.

And they are loving this.

“This is what we voted for!!!!”

So while I’m morally outraged that no patriotic secret service agent hasn’t done the right thing when they had a clear shot, I’m not surprised.

People *want* this. Many of them are confused and/or deliberately misled about what “this” is, but they want it. And they’ll applaud when American citizens are deported for dissent and protesting.

And even when Trump no longer sucks air into his craggy lungs, these people will STILL want this without truly understanding what this is.

We are in a lot of trouble, and regime change won’t solve it. And unfortunately, many of the methods “we” might use to mitigate the problem could lead to a Robespierre and Reign of Terror scenario of brutal tyranny originating from opposition to brutal tyrrany. Because there is no organized leftist movement in America, just “team sport” politics with various right-leaning factions vying for control, Democrats very much included.

I don’t trust any politician, and I *definitely* don’t trust ANY populist/parasocial movement surrounding any political figure, so the Sanders stuff always made me nervous, especially with the VERY obvious Sanders-to-Trump loyalty pipeline that many people (and by “people” I mean MEN) slide down. But I hope that he and Cortez are starting something that will turn into something more than just rallies and appearances at music festivals. We need ACTION.

And, unfortunately, blood is inevitable. We will look back and find that we fought a civil war, whether by traditional or non-traditional standards of warfare.
 
I don’t trust any politician, and I *definitely* don’t trust ANY populist/parasocial movement surrounding any political figure, so the Sanders stuff always made me nervous, especially with the VERY obvious Sanders-to-Trump loyalty pipeline that many people (and by “people” I mean MEN) slide down. But I hope that he and Cortez are starting something that will turn into something more than just rallies and appearances at music festivals. We need ACTION.
I voted for Sanders twice, though I only voted for him the second time because Elizabeth Warren was cooked by the time my state's primary rolled around.

I completely agree about Bernie. While Bernie is one of the better ones, he's made some highly questionable decisions over the last decade. The most notable was leaving Biden high and dry after Harris lost the election. Bernie claimed that Biden's economic policy didn't focus on the working class. That was a lie. Biden led the most Keynesian economic policy in this country since FDR, and Bernie knows it. Those economic policies—despite bringing advanced manufacturing back to the U.S. and significantly decreasing income inequality—were violently unpopular. You can blame at least some of that on propaganda, but you can't claim the policies didn't exist. The left has to figure out how to message its successes. Sanders and AOC workshopping messages on the stump instead of throwing millions and millions of dollars at consultants is a great start.

For the Sanders to Trump pipeline, you're right. I can't exonerate anyone for voting for Trump, especially now that he disappears people off the street, but it's clear that some people wanted a political outsider. I think the reason for that is pretty clear. I covered it in the tariff thread:

People are rightfully frustrated that nothing gets better. Our health care system is a scam. Kids are gunned down in school every week. Our mobile phones are halfway useless because every call we get is either a scammer or a spammer. This country has big, obvious problems that I think most people would agree on.

Every President finishes with their approval rating in the 30s or 40s because nothing gets done. Thing is, it's not really their fault. The U.S. Constitution was built to make legislation a chore. Minority rules built into the system centuries later (I'm talking specifically about the Senate's filibuster) derailed any chance of passing anything ever.

You need to have a majority of House votes + 60 Senate votes + the President's signature to pass anything of note. The last time either party had those majorities? The Democrats when they passed Obamacare.

Since then, Republicans passed a massive tax break for the rich and Democrats passed a massive climate bill, but both of these snuck through the backdoor and only required 50 Senate votes. That basically summarizes this country's major legislation dating back to 2008. It's not a sustainable system of government.

As ludicrous as it sounds, most of our legislating is done by the Judiciary branch. That's obviously not how it was supposed to work. Especially when the country's highest court is full of religious extremists.

I would strongly recommend this piece on our current government to anyone. It's a must-read to understand why we're in the spot we're in. Tl;dr: the U.S. Constitution isn't a very good foundational document.
We need to make the U.S. government work, and it's likely going to require significant overhaul. Are we brave or smart enough to pull it off? I honestly have no idea. Some of it depends on how unpopular Trump is in three years.

I have more uncertainty about the future of this country than ever before.
And, unfortunately, blood is inevitable. We will look back and find that we fought a civil war, whether by traditional or non-traditional standards of warfare.
I have a slightly rosier view. I don't think blood is inevitable. We, and our elected representatives in four years, will have two choices.

 
I completely agree about Abrego Garcia - this is next level bad, and needs to be never, ever be dropped. There's a lot of stuff happening in the world that makes me upset, or worried, or excited - this is one of the few cases I've read that just made me want to cry. Not that worse things haven't happened (of course) but this is a line being crossed. I'm horrified by anyone who is supporting this.

One ray of hope I've had - and this may be pure cope - is just how pathetic and feckless this administration is. Yes, they're absolutely causing real harms despite it. But having a car show on the lawn of the White House? Pretending you won a 9-0 decision at the Supreme Court, when in fact it was the opposite? Changing tariff policy every single day because the *totally predictable* fallout happens? These are all signs of weakness and cowardice. I'm heartened by the fact that none of these people like each other, and loyalty is entirely contingent and can be abandoned at the drop of a hat. I'm closer to TSI on this in that I'm optimistic that there are no inevitable outcomes - not yet.
 
You can just go and read Garcia's wikipedia page--his story is so clearly sympathetic--and come to the likely conclusion that at the very very very very very least he should just be let out of prison. Most people would say he should be let back into the country to live with his family. Now they are calling him a terrorist.

The spin is real. There isn't a right anymore, just far right, and they mastered new media in a way the left didn't. Almost all of the most popular podcasts are far right, right, and/or left disparaging. Their messaging apparatus is so powerful and consistent across platforms, they have a dark rhetorical anecdote for all scenarios locked and loaded. They created and propagandized the "culture war". Trump's personal motto - the truth is what I say it is. They've weaponized irony and created a trolling reality where their followers can cherry pick truths and lies in a perfect way to maintain their cognitive dissonance.

As for elections in four years, I'm not counting on it. I hope we'll have one—but I'm not counting on it. I think we'll vote, but it will be a Putin-esque election. Googling Peter Thiel, Curtis Yarvin, Foundations of Geopolitics by Aleksandr Dugan, Praxis, Network States, RAGE, The Butterfly Revolution... all point to the idea that billionaires purchased Trump to use as a figurehead while they do what they can to create a feudal USA. He was happy to get rich again and get his ass out of legal trouble. Now he can golf and boss people around until he dies. They are literally firing anyone who isn't loyal to him, that do not agree that the 2020 election was stolen. How on earth could there be a fair election in 2028? Everything they are doing points the opposite direction.

The writing is on the wall. With climate change and climate influenced mass migration, AI & automation looking to put a dramatic amount of workers out of work, China shifting from just manufacturing to engineering and designing, and social media and the internet allowing people to connect together to learn about (and grow resentment towards) "The 1%" and the growing wealth divide, billionaires are getting ahead of a people's revolution and potentially WW3. All of these factors mean we are heading for some major system change in the US. The people with money just want it to be fascism instead of socialism. They would rather pay for Garcia to be in jail than pay for subsidizing his healthcare.

Something that's been memeing around recently, is this idea (paraphrasing): to a billionaire, the difference between 100 billion dollars and 10 billion dollars doesn't really change the quality of your life. At a certain point, a steak only gets so expensive, and so good, and so worth spending X amount of money on. But there is a big difference if you live in a world where one night, you get drunk, and pinch your nanny's ass, and she metoo's you on social media, sues you for sexual harassment, and wins in a settlement while disgracing your name, vs. a world where you can pinch your nanny's ass and she's so desperate for work that she'll let you do it, and maybe worse, because if she loses her job, her kids starve. There's a difference when, if you have a bad day, you can verbally berate your workers, threaten them, even hit them, and they'll take the beating because they are desperate, vs. a world where you have to go to therapy to manage your anger. Basically, to be powerful, you can't just have money. You need desperate people willing to betray themselves because the only other option is poverty. When people are broke and fighting each other for terrible jobs, the people at the top become extraordinarily powerful--even if they have less $ in their bank account.

I presume DOGE is mostly a front to give Musk a remote backdoor into the US governments computer systems. When push comes to shove, who knows what he'll be able to do from his compound in Space X. He can at least know who his potential enemies are/were within the government.

Sorry for the overtly negative missive. But unlike previous eras in the past, the regular fella who wants to push up against these folks are really in a pickle. They have our data (some sensitive), they know our shopping habits, where we live, how much money we have, who we chat with online, who are friends are on Facebook. They have face recognition software, drones, right-wing militias. And their ability to snoop, spy, record, analyze, and search will get exponentially more powerful as AI gets more powerful. And they've now roped off global trading, meaning all the goods we rely on to survive must go through Trump. We'll see if he initiates the Insurrection Act this weekend or in the weeks ahead - but man, we're cooked.

It's like all the rich people watched Season 3 of Fargo and said "oh man, that evil British man is making some good points. Best prepare."
 
yeah I'd be fine discussing this stuff here rather than the tariff thread

dunno if Captain Cracker will be coming back but I am familiar with the kind of Trump voter who do the whole 'yeah I voted for him but I don't agree with everything he's done/said so it's unfair that you judge me for that' like they pulled the pin on the grenade, threw it at a crowd of people, and can't stomach looking at the carnage.

it's not that I think people should be reducible to their voting choices but I can find that a hard thing to internalize in the face of a political movement organized around reducing certain populations/demographics to anything that will place them outside of Real America. that's not all that MAGA is, but I see it as a crucial part of the tapestry.
 
yeah I'd be fine discussing this stuff here rather than the tariff thread

dunno if Captain Cracker will be coming back but I am familiar with the kind of Trump voter who do the whole 'yeah I voted for him but I don't agree with everything he's done/said so it's unfair that you judge me for that' like they pulled the pin on the grenade, threw it at a crowd of people, and can't stomach looking at the carnage.

it's not that I think people should be reducible to their voting choices but I can find that a hard thing to internalize in the face of a political movement organized around reducing certain populations/demographics to anything that will place them outside of Real America. that's not all that MAGA is, but I see it as a crucial part of the tapestry.

Yep.

I think where I've been at for a pretty long time with political discourse is a complete lack of tolerance for the attitude that you are somehow divorced from the people you support. If you vote for a person that, say, wants to make action figures illegal. And they make action figures illegal. You cannot then say 'well, I don't agree with everything they do.' My guy, they told you what they were going to do, you voted for them so they could do it, and they did it. You are 100% just as responsible for the results as they are.

I think where we need to allow grace in the 'I don't agree with everything they do' conversation is the regular political stuff. If you vote for someone like Harris and she decides to increase the budget for schools but NOT for infrastructure.. it's totally fair to say 'I don't agree with every decision.' Because you can't possibly know every single thing a politician is going to do.

But you can know what they're going to do regarding the things they specifically campaign on doing, or constantly talk about doing, or have already done in a previous term. And you can also openly and publicly denounce politicians that act contrary to your interests and their promises once in power - which most Trumpers aren't doing. So it's incredibly disingenuous, like that original post was in its entirety, to hide behind 'not agreeing with everything' while still openly endorsing him.
 
The “well I don’t agree with everything they do” argument is something I get from MAGA-leaning parents/guardians of at-risk youth A LOT. With said at-risk youth being directly in the crossfires of MAGA for one or more “isms”.
That dog don’t hunt.
 
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