Four Horsemen Studios Mythic Legions

As much as I like to pick on the campaign a bit, I said up thread there's really only two or three TTRPG companies that DO NOT use some form of crowdfunding for their products, so in a way going a crowdfunding route for a TTRPG is better for visibility and marketing unless you plan on having your stuff in stores (and again, only 2-3 TTRPG companies sell products in stores at scale). If this were a serious attempt at launching a TTRPG I have zero question why they would use crowdfunding, just a matter of picking KS or Backerkit or something else. It's basically industry best practice.

BUT if this is just a way to sell D&D-style action figures, they probably would've made more money selling it on their site, do a bunch of bundles and and all-in. And frankly for anyone else doing the KS unquestioningly makes better sense, but with their track record for people being willing to drop $500 three years ahead of time for their stuff, they probably really could have done it on their own website.

HOWEVER. HOWEVER! If they want to have the option of NEVER FULFILLING A FUNCTIONING GAME, Kickstarter always says it's not a store, you're basically gambling on the creator getting the thing done, and since the video game never fully functioned, they may be covering their asses on the game materials by not selling it in their store, because then they'd be on the hook for refunds etc. (I know KSers will do refunds but they're not obligated unless it really is proven to be a scam and not a failure.)
 
Alt said:
What did they do with the game? Wrote it off but release what they had?
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yep, they also refunded the cost of the game but not physical rewards (which hey! Good on them since KS is built on the idea you can just shrug and say “sorry! Money’s gone!” and walk away)

Also:
Is this Bryan K Borgman (aka Stratos) anybody? Like did they get a known TTRPG writer to work on this or is just like, a guy who had worked on TTRPG’s in some capacity before?
 
docsilence said:
Looks like he's at least worked on some games before. Nothing 5e though.


Contributor to some 3rd edition supplements and the GI Joe RPG but it sounds like he's more on the miniatures/supplemental materials side?
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Oh... THIS FUCKIN' GUY. I know (of) this guy.


LOL, if any of you are actually backed because you want the TTRPG (you're not, no one is, lol), cancel your pledge now. This guy is a joke. His big claim to fame in the TTRPG space is making kind of shitty music to accompany games. That's the biggest part of his career. He makes bad music to play your games to. That's not fucking game design.

But hold on, because I know you're seeing more stuff in there. My god.. the padding...

There's only really two things on there that may add any credibility to Bryan's ability to do this. Allow me to shred those:

He -contributed- to 3/3.5E Mongoose products? He was a playtester. Quick show of hands for anyone here that thinks being a playtester is the same as being a game designer.

His 'Kaiju Kaos' miniatures game? The only -game- he actually -made?- I've been in the wargaming and skirmish games community a long time. I REMEMBER this game. People who paid any attention to it at all fucking hated it. It was -derided- for its shitty rules, borderline microtransaction-based gameplay, and just not being fun or good. The only good things I've ever heard were some of the models looked okay and were fun to paint, or something.
It's a small sample size, because this is a nothing game that no one cares about. But still.

This guy's credentials might as well be 'we asked GROK to make us a D&D game.' That's probably all HE is going to do because he's not a real game designer.
 
Damien said:
Oh... THIS FUCKIN' GUY. I know (of) this guy.


LOL, if any of you are actually backed because you want the TTRPG (you're not, no one is, lol), cancel your pledge now. This guy is a joke. His big claim to fame in the TTRPG space is making kind of shitty music to accompany games. That's the biggest part of his career. He makes bad music to play your games to. That's not fucking game design.

But hold on, because I know you're seeing more stuff in there. My god.. the padding...

There's only really two things on there that may add any credibility to Bryan's ability to do this. Allow me to shred those:

He -contributed- to 3/3.5E Mongoose products? He was a playtester. Quick show of hands for anyone here that thinks being a playtester is the same as being a game designer.

His 'Kaiju Kaos' miniatures game? The only -game- he actually -made?- I've been in the wargaming and skirmish games community a long time. I REMEMBER this game. People who paid any attention to it at all fucking hated it. It was -derided- for its shitty rules, borderline microtransaction-based gameplay, and just not being fun or good. The only good things I've ever heard were some of the models looked okay and were fun to paint, or something.
It's a small sample size, because this is a nothing game that no one cares about. But still.

This guy's credentials might as well be 'we asked GROK to make us a D&D game.' That's probably all HE is going to do because he's not a real game designer.
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This doesn't surprise me even a little bit. I bet he sold himself as a prominent game designer to 4H too who have never met someone who couldn't talk them into something.

I don't follow BGG enough to know if they fact check game dev bios or not but I was like... this isn't enough detail to sell me on someone, and his socials are just music related. I've never seen a TTRPG designer whose socials aren't plastered with TTRPG information. Immediate red flag.
 
I dont see the ML TTRPG going anywhere, but Im not really in that world so what do I know? Honestly after the video game attempt, it just feels like they're desperately trying to cement an IP to strengthen their toy line.

Those knights are cool though, and that's really my only interest (until they start up with Goblins again, that is).
 
docsilence said:
I don't follow BGG enough to know if they fact check game dev bios or not but I was like... this isn't enough detail to sell me on someone, and his socials are just music related. I've never seen a TTRPG designer whose socials aren't plastered with TTRPG information. Immediate red flag.
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He's a TTRPG nobody that literally just went 'can't be that hard' and found the one group of idiots willing to hand him a bunch of money. He's been in the TTRPG scene since the LATE 90s and has never done anything notable unless you count his music. Which I do not.
 
docsilence said:
Just thinking of comparable 5e-based kickstarters minus the action figure component and, because Kickstarter knows I'm an easy mark, this popped up in my feed. Just for comparison of how to show the TTRPG community what the game actually includes or does as part of your campaign. I don't have time this afternoon to look at the numbers side by side but their goal was only 10k and they've brought in $325k so it's doing well.
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Just to drive the point home a little bit, I'm just sort of going to live-write what I know about this campaign just from looking at it for the first time right now. The 1-minute video alone tells me:
  • It's a sci-fi campaign setting for D&D 5E
  • It adds a customizable mecha game mechanic
  • It adds a ship combat game mechanic
  • It contains 8 new playable species, 1 new character class, 45 character subclasses, and has setting-unique monsters
A little beneath the video, it mentions that the campaign book is over 440 pages. Further down the page, I'm seeing that it includes 50 double-sided, dry- and wet-erasable maps for a variety of sci-fi settings. It also includes 2 separate adventure module books, one of which is a full 200-page campaign, in addition to the core setting book.

Reading through, I'm seeing numerous other selling points about game system compatibility, availability for the major online TTRPG platforms, and a host of other benefits plus addons like dice and a DM screen. Stretch goals include additional campaign and character options. There's a 32-page sample PDF that includes things like the material for 2 of the new species, 4 of the subclasses (what do you MEAN you made a synthwave bard with a weaponized keytar I don't have the money for this right now you jerks), stats for cool space weapons, a few monsters, and the ship combat rules, which feels like one of the most obvious selling points here.

I don't want to totally belabor the point, but like, there's a clear purpose and ideal backer here: providing a comprehensive game setting for existing D&D 5E players who want to play a sci-fi setting but would rather stick with D&D than try a new system. I know all of this about this campaign from looking at the Kickstarter for like 10 minutes. Meanwhile, all I know about the Mythic Legions game is that it's a 5E campaign setting with a 300+ page core rulebook whose major benefits are allegiance to a faction and the ability to have larger, more awkward battles with my own action figures, both of which I could achieve for free by bringing my toys to the Masonic Temple.
 
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Damien said:
He's a TTRPG nobody that literally just went 'can't be that hard' and found the one group of idiots willing to hand him a bunch of money. He's been in the TTRPG scene since the LATE 90s and has never done anything notable unless you count his music. Which I do not.
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Well, it's a...step above 4H intern, maybe? Oh my God, of course they would get a grifter hanger-on for this. Of course.

I did playtesting for the Return to Dark Tower expansions, why didn't they call me?!
 
I asked the group I DM for tonight what it would take to get them to back a kickstarter with D&D action figures.
"Can I make a tiefling sorcerer?" Nope.
"Can I make a half-vampire?" Nope.
"Can I make a halfling?" Nope.
"Can I make an elven woman in wizard robes?" Nope.
"Can I make a weird little puppet cleric?" Nope.
"Okay well how about a gnome? How about a bard? A warlock? A dragonborn? A female rogue? A female cleric? A female paladin?"

I can't help imagining if they might've captured new hearts and minds if they focused on what they specialize in and just dug deep into character classes and combos. Hell, I like the figures on offer but it feels like so much was left on the table.
 
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