The Reading Room

Damien said:
"I've created this technology that is so bad for humanity, is somehow offensively bad for the environment AND has no actual upsides for regular people, that I'm not sure it's even believable that anyone would create and/or use it."
"Have you heard about this piece of technology that's actually worse than what you described and came out two years ago?"
Click to expand...
I swear this is why most of the great cyberpunk writers pivoted.

BTW, I know Ellis is a pariah but his short novel NORMAL has stuck with me for years because it takes place in a mental health facility for experts who look at and attempt to solve the world's problems and go a bit crazy from staring into that hopeless void for too long, and I've actually interviewed people who do those tasks and it will, in fact, drive you mad. Nothing like talking to someone whose job is keeping Manhattan from flooding when the city is literally below sea level (I talked to that person maybe a year before that mass flooding event a few years back?). Sometimes the horrible of now is worse than any grimy cyberpunk future.
 
And -I'M- always the bad guy on every forum and real life discussion talking about how humans are just shitty by our very natures and we'll probably never do significantly better before ultimately destroying ourselves.
 
docsilence said:
and it will, in fact, drive you mad
Click to expand...
This is why I basically can't engage with most environmental news. In minutes it starts to affect my mental landscape in a way that can wreck me for days. I can feel the Great Filter rushing at me when I read that stuff. And the worst part is if that's what takes us out I don't think it'll be that sudden. I think it will still take a century or more to really put us all down. And I just have a hard time thinking about the last folks.
Damien said:
And -I'M- always the bad guy on every forum and real life discussion talking about how humans are just shitty by our very natures and we'll probably never do significantly better before ultimately destroying ourselves.
Click to expand...
If I'm honest, a lot of days I end up thinking about that quote at the end of Seven 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part." I think we live in a largely uncaring and indifferent universe (because, frankly, that's preferrable to the alternatives as far as I'm concerned) and, being part of it, deeply flawed is about as good as we can do. I believe it's always worth hoping for better, trying for it, whatever, but I think better is one of those things you sort of luck into rather than plan. All you can do is make the time right for better to happen, I guess.
 
Damien said:
And -I'M- always the bad guy on every forum and real life discussion talking about how humans are just shitty by our very natures and we'll probably never do significantly better before ultimately destroying ourselves.
Click to expand...
This is why we get along, isn't it.
JakeEkiss said:
If I'm honest, a lot of days I end up thinking about that quote at the end of Seven 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part." I think we live in a largely uncaring and indifferent universe (because, frankly, that's preferrable to the alternatives as far as I'm concerned) and, being part of it, deeply flawed is about as good as we can do. I believe it's always worth hoping for better, trying for it, whatever, but I think better is one of those things you sort of luck into rather than plan. All you can do is make the time right for better to happen, I guess.
Click to expand...
Me quoting a pariah again, but Midnighter to Apollo in their first appearance in Stormwatch: "No, a finer world is a small thing to ask." We're not asking for much, asking for a better world. The bar's real fuckin low. I quote that almost as often as I quote Fitzcarraldo.
 
From Kingdom of Heaven, "what man is a man that doesn't make the world better." I believe in that sincerely, with all my heart. The problem is that it's VERY clear the majority, even if a small majority, DON'T believe that. Or don't know how to actually practice it that doesn't have the opposite effect, I suppose.
 
Damien said:
From Kingdom of Heaven, "what man is a man that doesn't make the world better." I believe in that sincerely, with all my heart. The problem is that it's VERY clear the majority, even if a small majority, DON'T believe that. Or don't know how to actually practice it that doesn't have the opposite effect, I suppose.
Click to expand...
One thing I wrestle with a lot, is whether or not it really is a constant majority, or if it isn't that breaking stuff, even unintentionally, is just *so* much easier than building anything. Like a notion I really resonate with is that the ground state of many systems is a negative outcome. Nation states exist in a ground state of war because they were built as a means of power expansion. So whenever nations are in any form of peace, you can be certain there are people busting ass 24/7 to maintain it, and that war isn't an aberrant condition, but rather the failure of a constant, aberrant peace effort.

I also generally believe, that much stronger than any impulse to destroy or preserve, is an urge to be left the fuck alone, and that drives the actual majority to just opt out of engaging. Thinking is exhausting, so it's easier to just go along with a slogan, or a face you've seen before. It's like the second law of thermodynamics but for social systems. People seek the low-energy state.
 
JakeEkiss said:
I also generally believe, that much stronger than any impulse to destroy or preserve, is an urge to be left the fuck alone, and that drives the actual majority to just opt out of engaging. Thinking is exhausting, so it's easier to just go along with a slogan, or a face you've seen before. It's like the second law of thermodynamics but for social systems. People seek the low-energy state.
Click to expand...
I think it's the opposite. I don't think most humans, and this may be weird to any of us neurospicy folks, want to be left alone. People CRAVE social interaction. Humans are, famously, social animals. That's a big part of how we got to where we are. We work better together than any other animal on the planet, and part of that is that we are hard-wired to do it, and to do it constantly.
But that's also a huge weakness because it means most humans are easily led. Whatever it takes to be part of the in-group. To not be left OUT of society. It's not so much people don't want to think (we are hard-wired to think), but that turning off the Big Thinky Parts makes it easier to be a part of the group - to not accidentally ostracize yourself. It's a defense mechanism against loneliness. Just do what the group do. Just think what the group think. Just be what the group be.

It makes us very susceptible to the Great Man theory, to strong men, to grifters and loudmouths. I don't think the majority of people are inherently bad. I think the majority of people aren't good enough to NOT be bad when told to be. That's how you get good Christians so riled up with hate but convinced it ISN'T hate. Group says gay bad. No hate. Gay just bad. It's primate shit. And we haven't figured out how to crawl out of this mentality that lets the majority of our population be used and manipulated so easily by truly awful people.

And we can't get rid of the awful people, either. So... we're fucked. The awful people will ALWAYS maintain enough power in society to destroy everything we build.
 
Damien said:
I think it's the opposite. I don't think most humans, and this may be weird to any of us neurospicy folks, want to be left alone. People CRAVE social interaction. Humans are, famously, social animals. That's a big part of how we got to where we are. We work better together than any other animal on the planet, and part of that is that we are hard-wired to do it, and to do it constantly.
But that's also a huge weakness because it means most humans are easily led. Whatever it takes to be part of the in-group. To not be left OUT of society. It's not so much people don't want to think (we are hard-wired to think), but that turning off the Big Thinky Parts makes it easier to be a part of the group - to not accidentally ostracize yourself. It's a defense mechanism against loneliness. Just do what the group do. Just think what the group think. Just be what the group be.

It makes us very susceptible to the Great Man theory, to strong men, to grifters and loudmouths. I don't think the majority of people are inherently bad. I think the majority of people aren't good enough to NOT be bad when told to be. That's how you get good Christians so riled up with hate but convinced it ISN'T hate. Group says gay bad. No hate. Gay just bad. It's primate shit. And we haven't figured out how to crawl out of this mentality that lets the majority of our population be used and manipulated so easily by truly awful people.

And we can't get rid of the awful people, either. So... we're fucked. The awful people will ALWAYS maintain enough power in society to destroy everything we build.
Click to expand...
Ah yeah, I should clarify, I mean left alone in the sense, they don't wan to be judged, put on the spot, or required to defend a position against a crowd. They don't really want to be responsible for figuring out what's true in a complex situation, don't really want to deal with complex situations at all if possible. They want to seek the "right" answer which they can just parrot and not really have to work hard at. And it leads them to the folks who are charismatic and driven.

Definitely agree on the social animals thing. That pressure is great.
 
Fair. In short; humans are kind of shit because our greatest strengths make us prone to basically destroy everything we create and follow the worst versions of us around like puppies.
 
81wwS1v2DjL._SL1500_.jpg


Just finished this one the other day. Thought it was lots of fun. I absolutely adore Uggie.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top