Super 7 TMNT figures

[Damien]

Those ifs are doing a fuckton of heavy lifting.

 

[Justice]

Most likely they've been in trouble ever since announcing they were cutting production on Ultimates and BBTS started doing that massive clearance sale. Can't remember when that was exactly but maybe late 2023?

 

[Damien]

Most likely they've been in trouble ever since announcing they were cutting production on Ultimates and BBTS started doing that massive clearance sale. Can't remember when that was exactly but maybe late 2023?

Yeah. I mean, whatever shitty excuses they have. Whatever bullshit Brian spins to protect himself. They laid off a bunch of people -before- the tariffs. And then they lay off a bunch more people after the tariffs, and Brian literally tells people they had the best year ever prior to the tariffs. Then why the pre-tariffs layoffs, Brian? You lying bag of cockroach shit.

 

[AgentHemlock]

I spent some spare time this week opening up some old pickups and getting out what little S7 I have. Wound up adding a matte finish to the original four brothers, and some select parts of Sewer Surfing Mikey (I wanted his wetsuit to remain a little satiny). Also kiki'd all the loose hips. Big improvements. Also finally matte coated my Jakks Bartman figure, which really elevates it from kids toy to collectible pretty fast.

Shouldn't have to, but I'm please with the end results.

I think the remaining few S7 TMNT figures I pickup will be price dependent and based out of the love of the brand. I opened up some old NECA TMNT this week, as well, including the first Mondo Gecko and Muckman, and it's interesting to compare to S7. Of course, the NECA figures just blow them out of the water in every way they could be compared. But nostalgia is a hell of a drug, and subsequently I love each of my S7 figures regardless.

Does feel like we are coming to the end of a TMNT era, though.

 

[Misfit]

There's so much TMNT product out there that it basically has to slow down at some point, and likely soon. I'm guessing The Loyal Subjects are done with McFarlane prepping IDW turtles. Super7 as a company is on life support, though their TMNT stuff has a little momentum going for it with 2k3. I question the sustainability of the 2k3 stuff. Assuming Kyle wasn't bullshitting us in that video and wave two sold well, I could see maybe two waves worth of characters that could do similar numbers with characters like April, Hun, Baxter, Triceratons, and some of the Foot Ninja variants. One of the challenges for that line is no turtles to really anchor waves. Are there variants of the turtles from that era people actually want? I think we only enjoy them in the vintage line because we had those figures as kids. Maybe there's enough of that for the kids who collected 2k3 in the moment, but I still think a sizable chunk of the collector base are those who grew up on the 80s versions who are probably down for the heavy hitters and little else. That's definitely where I slot in with this show, but I am also a Christmas sicko so if they did those variants I'd probably throw money foolishly at a preorder and bitch 12 months later when I get a clunky mess.

 

[Damien]

I think we only enjoy them in the vintage line because we had those figures as kids. Maybe there's enough of that for the kids who collected 2k3 in the moment, but I still think a sizable chunk of the collector base are those who grew up on the 80s versions who are probably down for the heavy hitters and little else.

I think there's several issues that are going to collide here pretty soon and destroy Super7 TMNT.

1.) The lack of vintage toys. Even for people that are into the 2003 stuff, I think that's largely still going to be a supplementary collection for -MOST- Super7 TMNT collectors, and I don't think Super7 is going to pick up a lot of new fans just for the 2003 stuff. If the foundation is the vintage stuff, then a complete lack of vintage stuff is going to cause collector-ennui or a generalized disinterest. The 2003 stuff may be less exciting to a lot of people when it's no longer ancillary to the vintage stuff, but has fully replaced it. In fact, it may even engender some negative feelings toward the 2003 stuff for essentially supplanting what people really came here for.

2.) The Heavy Hitters Problem. A combination of my point above and your point; for any collectors that aren't here specifically for the 2003 stuff, there's a good chance those collectors only need the main characters and maybe another favorite here or there. But it's likely not a branding that can sustain itself much beyond that. I don't believe there's enough people that are big enough fans of 2003 to go as far as a vintage-inspired line can go. This version of the line has a shelf life built into it that the vintage stuff didn't have (or had a much longer shelf life, I should say). The only real way to refresh the brothers is to just.. re-issue them. And that has diminishing returns -- exacerbated by maybe already having a smaller fanbase than the vintage stuff.

3.) Greed. Super7 is GOING to keep raising their prices (or doing bullshit like they started doing with leaving prices alone for some figures and raising them for others, even though that goes against the entire concept of the high asking price of regular figures because Brian Flynn is a clown). Super7's greed, and Brian Flynn's mega-inflated idea of the value of his products, is going to make it impossible for them to pivot in this economy. Clearance pricing and low sales will do nothing, and HAVE DONE nothing, to prove that this pricing isn't sustainable. People have clearly gotten sick of it well before the 2003 switch. The two problems above will deeply exacerbate the pricing problem.

That's my guess; that 2003 Turtles don't make it past 3 waves in the current economy at the current pricing.

 

[PantherCult]

Yeah.. its a bummer if they got told they couldnt keep doing Playmates updates - there were still fun characters from that toyline that I would have loved to see -Lionheart, Scale Tail, Hothead, Doctor El and Merdude all probably would have hooked me. Others from that time like Walkabout, Monty Moose, Hotspot, Sandstorm and Halfcourt might be welcome for others. Its a shame if they don't get to do any of that.

 

[SalemCrow]

As far as 2K3 turtle variants, they could do the "Fast Forward" versions of the brothers. I think, at the time, that wasn't super popular, but maybe time has changed opinions like it has to a degree with the SW prequels.

I think they also had slightly altered looks when they were in the inter-dimensional "Mortal Kombat" type tournament that might be worth exploring. Admittedly, that's going on memory from seeing the episodes YEARS ago.

 

[Damien]

Yeah.. its a bummer if they got told they couldnt keep doing Playmates updates - there were still fun characters from that toyline that I would have loved to see -Lionheart, Scale Tail, Hothead, Doctor El and Merdude all probably would have hooked me. Others from that time like Walkabout, Monty Moose, Hotspot, Sandstorm and Halfcourt might be welcome for others. Its a shame if they don't get to do any of that.

I feel like, as with a lot of toylines, the strength isn't necessarily that people REALLY want Doctor El or Monty Moose. It's that the ability to have them made means you get this incredible display full of all the wacky, weird characters. So many collectors out there are world-builders, whether they really want to be or not. Once you take that possibility away from them, they lose interest.

How many people would buy into any line of Turtles if the sales pitch was 'we're only going to make the four and then nothing else' - for example.

As far as 2K3 turtle variants, they could do the "Fast Forward" versions of the brothers. I think, at the time, that wasn't super popular, but maybe time has changed opinions like it has to a degree with the SW prequels.

I think they also had slightly altered looks when they were in the inter-dimensional "Mortal Kombat" type tournament that might be worth exploring. Admittedly, that's going on memory from seeing the episodes YEARS ago.

I kinda feel like you have to struggle to even create a potential list of maybe variants someone might care about pretty much proves the point here. Haha.

 

[Misfit]

I went through a wiki (TMNTpedia, I think) for 2k3 looking for interesting designs that might make for good figures and not much stood out to me. Part of the appeal of redoing the Playmates stuff is you had some really interesting, intricate, designs where as with the 2k3 stuff everything was made for animation so it had to be relatively simple, clean, and easy to animate. The nostalgia isn't there for me so I'm sure someone who grew up with the series would disagree with my take to some degree, but I can't see this line having the legs of the other one. And I think the same will be true for NECA's 2012 line. Even though I really enjoyed that show, I'm only interested in the turtles, Shredder, and maybe some Foot Ninja. There weren't many mutants in that show I cared enough about to want in plastic and I have no interest in world building another TMNT line.

 

[NORM]

Not in any kind of defense for S7, but it’s a bigger company than just the TMNT lines it produces. If anything, that license will probably just expire or not get renewed or something. Fingers crossed. All of their nostalgia grab ‘80s cartoon lines seem to be evaporating. They still seem to sell a ton of shit I completely ignore. But someone seems to be buying it.

 

[Damien]

The nostalgia isn't there for me so I'm sure someone who grew up with the series would disagree with my take to some degree,

Oh probably. My contention is that there aren't enough such people. You can pretty clearly see it with 200x MOTU, as well; a huge majority of the fanbase for that series were already MOTU fans before it came out. They may like it. Some may even prefer it. But it doesn't have the same nostalgia tug. It doesn't seem like people of an age to have strong nostalgia for 2003 action figures and cartoons also actually collect toys to the extent of the '70s and early '80s generations.

And I think the same will be true for NECA's 2012 line.

Oh that line is almost certainly either doomed after the first six or seven characters - or is going to have to do something weird. Tons of the ancillary characters in that show were fucking gigantic. 2012 Turtles was, for that franchise, the beginning of the anime style 'make everything disgustingly enormous to the point that it's fucking stupid' era. Leatherhead, in a 6-7" line, would need to be like 20" from snout to tail. Slash will have to be a 10" figure. So would that fucking dog thing they tried to replace Bebop/Rocksteady with. Dogpound was it?
If this were McFarlane, I'd actually kind of expect that's why he wanted the license. McFarlane loves those gigantic figures so he can show off how much cheaper he can make them. But NECA? No fuckin' way anyone wants a 120 dollar Dogpound.

Not in any kind of defense for S7, but it’s a bigger company than just the TMNT lines it produces. If anything, that license will probably just expire or not get renewed or something. Fingers crossed. All of their nostalgia grab ‘80s cartoon lines seem to be evaporating. They still seem to sell a ton of shit I completely ignore. But someone seems to be buying it.

Take it with a full plate of salt, but my understanding from people I've spoken to is that S7 does make the majority of their money from Ultimates and ReAction. Which is why Brian keeps making Ultimates figures despite actively disliking the entire style of it. That's super important; Brian decides what S7 makes. Brian does not like fully articulated, high-detail, high-paint action figures. Period. And yet Ultimates keeps chugging along regularly. Even without insider info - it stands to reason it's making them a lot of their money otherwise Brian just wouldn't do it.

If we allow that Ultimates makes S7 a good chunk of their revenue, we have to deal with the idea that TMNT is the biggest brand in Ultimates, and nothing else has really come close except maybe ThunderCats - which itself is certainly winding down in terms of what they can possibly produce that collectors still want in enough numbers to be sustainable.

And if prices go up any more on ReAction, S7 will probably lose those collectors too. This is more a guess on my part, but I think S7 has really maxed out the price on what people buying ReAction are willing to pay for some of the most low-effort product currently in the collector space. Even then - TMNT is a big part of the ReAction line as well.

The way I undersatnd it, again plate of salt, is that stuff like most Ultimates and TMNT/Joe ReAction essentially funds all of Brian's little pet projects that S7 is also known for. Without the money makers, the entire company would either collapse or need to completely shift its business model.

 

[AgentHemlock]

I'd have tons of ReActions if they were $7 or $8, sometimes marked down to $4-$5. 5 for $100 is ridiculous. I bought most of my GI Joe Classifieds and Black Series on Amazon for sub $20.

I have 0 ReActions.

I've come to realize there are action figure collectors/toy collectors, and there are collectors that collect a wide array of merchandise for properties they like. There's overlap of course, but they collect for different reasons.

As an action figure collector, I collect action figures that I like. Often they are of properties I love, but not always. Even if it's a property I love, if I don't like the actual product, I don't buy it. Conversely, I'll sometimes buy great action figures of properties I don't have a strong connection to because I think figure is so cool. The recent Ganesha figure from 4H is an example. Not that that's from a "property", but you know what I mean.

Meanwhile, some people will buy TMNT stuff because it's TMNT stuff. Their display will have old posters, trading cards, food products, boxes of band aids, and so on. Their rubric for reviewing S7 Ultimates doesn't come from an understanding of modern articulated action figures, but more the hype of seeing their property get serviced. They aren't really going to pose the figure a lot or take complicated photos. It's gonna sit on a shelf next to a box of TMNT cereal and a signed picture of Rob Paulsen.

I think that's the kind of collector Brian is, and who he has in mind when he makes his figures. People that collect memorabilia, vs action figure collectors. Of course plenty of action figure collectors buy his action figures. I'd be interested in knowing if we are the majority of his business, or if Ultimates sell well because you get both memorabilia collectors AND action figure collectors. And yes he'd be on steadier ground if he tried his best to cater to both, but action figure collectors are definitely a more critical audience than someone that's gonna love a thing because it represents a thing they love.

 

[Justice]

I have never seen the first episode of the 2003 show but I love Turtle figures and having many different versions of them like a big multiverse. The only figures I would be in for on this line would be something that I know from other cartoons, like Shredder, Splinter, and Casey. I definitely wouldn't want anything that was unique to the 2003 cartoon. Like others have said though, I don't see this going past maybe 3 waves. Bebop and Rocksteady weren't in this cartoon were they? I'm assuming April was. I'd definitely buy her.

 

[Damien]

I have never seen the first episode of the 2003 show but I love Turtle figures and having many different versions of them like a big multiverse. The only figures I would be in for on this line would be something that I know from other cartoons, like Shredder, Splinter, and Casey. I definitely wouldn't want anything that was unique to the 2003 cartoon. Like others have said though, I don't see this going past maybe 3 waves. Bebop and Rocksteady weren't in this cartoon were they? I'm assuming April was. I'd definitely buy her.

April in 2003 wore baggy khakis and a belly shirt. I think fans just wanting the main cast but who also aren't -actually- fans of that particular cartoon probably wouldn't even recognize her on a shelf as April. Maybe if they did the later-series costume she wore which was yellow but looked more like a superhero outfit....?

And no - no Bebop or Rocksteady. They were replaced with unique characters for this one.