Star Wars Movie and Streaming Series Discussion

I don't think you missed anything as they simply skipped that part. We got to learn their mission when their target did, which was just another way to tell the story and again I get why you prefer to see all the steps along the way. Maybe it was heavily guarded, maybe it wasn't, maybe they went through laser tripwires and false identities and trained rancor guards or who knows, or maybe they slipped in really easily because there's only one other guy in the building. Or maybe he was the only guy on that floor and they skipped most of the sneaking necessary to leave. I don't know, but they decided these particular beats were the important ones to see. I imagine because those moments didn't add anything to Bix's journey. The important part was the act, not the prep, the infiltration, or the way out.
 
I'm starting to think that franchise-fatigue is a coy way of not admitting (or not saying, or not realizing) that some stuff is just not really very good. A lot of people with SW-fatigue during the new trilogy suddenly didn't have it for S1 Mandalorian.
I think there's still room for "sameness" fatigue. When I speak of superhero fatigue, it's because all the movies started copying Guardians of the Galaxy. When I got Star Wars fatigue, it was because they couldn't stop talking about Jedi. I'd say franchise fatigue is a real thing, but just more granular. When Mandalorian came along, it was a new idea. (Almost) nothing to do with Jedi and actually intentionally ignorant about them. Then they started down the path of just promoting the next thing and bringing in Ahsoka and Luke and it got all Jedi-y again.
 
SW has struggled some since it went away from the idea of the Jedi being less common and more mythical figures. In the 1st film it seems like many people didn't even believe them to have existed. Which is really weird considering there were 10s of thousands of them in the most visible place possible just 20 years prior. Needless to say it works better with less Jedi. If everyone is a Jedi then no one is ... and the people who aren't Jedi really struggle to matter at all. Tolkien knew the most accessible of his stories where when magic was ebbing away. The mystery of the greater hard to glimpse past is usually the more engaging stories. Otherwise its all flashing lights and back flips. Not that some of it hasn't landed but is certainly harder.

One of the things that makes no sense about Star Wars is BBY. Why on earth is the event that makes a whole new era of time the destruction of the Death Star. That is just a temporary set back. Shouldn't the new era begin at the fall of the empire a few years AFTER 1 BBY?
 
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I haven't watched any new Star Wars since I lost interest halfway through the Book of Boba Fett. I'm definitely fatigued but I think it is from the desire to keep up with the shows and feeling like I needed to force my way through them even if I didn't like them because hey, it's Star Wars. At some point I'd love to try and get into Andor but I'm just not feeling it right now so I haven't even attempted it.
 
I'm starting to think that franchise-fatigue is a coy way of not admitting (or not saying, or not realizing) that some stuff is just not really very good. A lot of people with SW-fatigue during the new trilogy suddenly didn't have it for S1 Mandalorian. Ya' know? I think the fatigue sets in very specifically when something isn't good enough on its own merits to not just be a nostalgia grab. The more the show makes you think about how you only like it because you've always liked this whatever it is, the more it feels like 'fatigue' of that thing, when really you just don't like crappy movies or TV shows.

Same for the target audience argument, which I've seen in a lot of places. I am not really the target audience for Teen Titans Go! I watched that show because my son liked it. And I will STILL watch it with him whenever there's a new episode, even if I don't really need to be in the room at the time, because it's a fucking hilarious show most of the time. Things can be good or not good. I don't think there's legitimately a specific target audience for 'a good time.'
The obvious exception being stuff written and filmed very specifically for extremely young children. Totally valid that adults aren't going to have a good time watching someone teach you how you count or what colors and shapes are. But if you can't get into a kids' cartoon, for example, it might just be BAD rather than 'not made for adults.'

all very possible.
 
I think there's still room for "sameness" fatigue. When I speak of superhero fatigue, it's because all the movies started copying Guardians of the Galaxy. When I got Star Wars fatigue, it was because they couldn't stop talking about Jedi. I'd say franchise fatigue is a real thing, but just more granular. When Mandalorian came along, it was a new idea. (Almost) nothing to do with Jedi and actually intentionally ignorant about them. Then they started down the path of just promoting the next thing and bringing in Ahsoka and Luke and it got all Jedi-y again.
I think that's more to my point, though. It's not that you're just generally tired of superhero movies. It's that you don't want to watch more superhero movies casually aping the style of one specific movie. Which is why I just think the 'X fatigue' thing gets thrown around too much when it's not really what people probably mean. I'd call this a problem with a lack of originality and nothing being allowed to have its own personality. I think it's still fair to call that a disinterest in stuff that isn't -good-, rather than fatigue with a wider idea like 'all of Star Wars' or 'all superheroes.'

After all, you didn't really have Star Wars fatigue if you liked Mandalorian -until- they started doing things you were tired of. You were tired of a specific trope or storytelling device or, I daresay, maybe just the knowledge that this isn't even a STORY anymore - it's just a vehicle to get to the next vehicle to get to the next vehicle to get to the next vehicle in an endless cycle of no-end half-stories trying to convince you to just consume the next thing.
I wonder how you might have reacted to it, just for example, if Mandalorian had a couple Jedi in the final season, but that the producers of the show had already made it clear this show was completely unconnected from the main SW universe, was considered a complete 'what if' story, and would never tie in to any TV shows or movies ever again. The knowledge that it's NOT just trying to sell you on the next thing could, maybe, have made it more enjoyable rather than causing that bile-inducing reaction of 'oh, they tricked me into watching a 3 season commercial for the next show.'

Just a thought. I could be off-base.

SW has struggled some since it went away from the idea of the Jedi being less common and more mythical figures. In the 1st film it seems like many people didn't even believe them to have existed. Which is really weird considering there were 10s of thousands of them in the most visible place possible just 20 years prior. Needless to say it works better with less Jedi. If everyone is a Jedi then no one is ... and the people who aren't Jedi really struggle to matter at all. Tolkien knew the most accessible of his stories where when magic was ebbing away. The mystery of the greater hard to glimpse past is usually the more engaging stories. Otherwise its all flashing lights and back flips. Not that some of it hasn't landed but is certainly harder.

One of the things that makes no sense about Star Wars is BBY. Why on earth is the event that makes a whole new era of time the destruction of the Death Star. That is just a temporary set back. Shouldn't the new era begin at the fall of the empire a few years AFTER 1 BBY?

Hard agree. I actually really like Jedi, generally. But Star Wars would be WAY more interesting if they'd remained rare, even in their own time. Half-mythological and legitimately all but completely gone by the time Luke gets his extendo-laser. That opens up so much more interesting avenues to explore than 'lol, just kidding, there's so many...'

I could basically sit here and re-write the entirety of SW lore RIGHT NOW with 90% less Jedi and I bet make a cohesive narrative of the galaxy that's more interesting than the actual Star Wars canon. Yeah, I said it.
 
@Damien, I think we're saying the same thing, but when Star Wars IS Jedi, then Jedi fatigue IS Star Wars fatigue.

I don't really blame them. Jedi are distinctively Star Wars in ways other elements aren't. Like, other movies can have space fighters and uprisings and andros, but you put a laser sword in there and it's immediately a Star Wars knock-off.

As their distinctive identity, some people may wonder what's the point if there's no lightsabers. The answer, of course, is delving into the rich tapestry of the setting, but that's not always enough for fandom at large. It's like how Power Rangers will always be Mighty Morphin.
 
Yeah, the Jedi are kind of a double-edged sword (lightsaber?). They're so overpowered that bringing them in to a non-Jedi story can almost feel like a Deus Ex Machina. However, when the focus is on them, you almost have to underpower them in a way to make whatever villain seem threatening. There's so many Force powers that are brought in momentarily or retroactively, then never used again- Force Run, that Sith scream thing Palpatine does in ROTS, the Force Headbutt thing that Maul apparently does to Qui-Gon. When the Jedi can do everything, it makes it all the more confusing when they do nothing.

That's why I really liked Skeleton Crew- telling it through the eyes of Wim, it allowed the Jedi to remain as a sort of fairy tale/legend. I'd be down for a story told during the height of the Jedi, but one that uses them sparingly. We still have never necessarily seen them from the point of view of just an everyman. While I'm admittedly a fan of the dismantling of the Jedi legend, I'd still be curious to see why they have the reputation they do, and I feel like that's an instance where, if done right, it wouldn't feel to out of place for the Jedi to seem overpowered.
 
Did anyone watch Tales of the Underworld? I really enjoyed it, especially the Asajj Ventress episodes. But the Cad Bane episodes were good too. But I just love Asajj Ventress. She is great in the Expanded Universe and Canon. If you've never read Star Wars: Dark Disciple, I highly recommend it. The opening seen from this show is right from that book.
 
As their distinctive identity, some people may wonder what's the point if there's no lightsabers. The answer, of course, is delving into the rich tapestry of the setting, but that's not always enough for fandom at large. It's like how Power Rangers will always be Mighty Morphin.

That's fair. But, and I don't think we disagree here, it's definitely a problem of Lucas' own making. Coming out of the OT, lightsabers were certainly iconic, but I'm not sure they were integral. Genuinely feel that it was actually the prequel trilogy that made Star Wars 50% about lightsabers.
The worst thing about that is looking at the broad strokes of the prequel trilogy, it would not have been hard to write Anakin's fall without resorting to a Jedi robe in every closet in the galaxy. In fact, I think the entire story would have been more impactful, more interesting, and more awesome if even in the prequels Jedi were rare and elusive. Especially since, you know, 20 years later they're barely more than a folktale.

The impressive thing Mandalorian did, at least in the first season, was recapture that idea that the SW galaxy isn't defined by lightsabers, but by a general tone, feel, and visual style of the setting. I'd argue that Mando nailed SW more than the Prequels ever did and felt more like something in line with the OT and even the early novels. It's also worth arguing that Mando S1 was extremely well-received, so we're not the only ones that don't think you have to have big lightsaber fights for it to be Star Wars.

It's on Disney now to try to cultivate that, but honestly it's probably too late. You can't put the cat back in the bag, or something? Unless Disney is willing to blatantly and publicly retcon everything but the OT out of existence and start over, I think we're stuck with "actually, there was like 1.2 million Jedi still alive after the purge.' Which is just... I dunno.. dumb. And gets dumber with every new show.
 
Part of me has been kinda ready for a reboot for a while. Keeping in mind I'll always have my OT blurays, I'd be perfectly fine if they wanted to give that a shot. One pitch I would make would be an ongoing TV series that did a This Is Us with going back and forth between two timelines following Anakin and Luke. I know this is probably the last thing fans who are tired of lightsabers and Skywalkers want to see, but it would be a way for Disney to set up their own damned star wars. And we could finally pursue the original idea of Luke scouring the galaxy for his sister rather than settling on it being the only female character already established. Also age Anakin up a little and maybe tell the PT story from his perspective. I always thought it would be interesting if he was the "Han Solo" of the PT: cunning pilot but also somewhat of a Force skeptic, specially if you want to go with the idea of fewer Jedi in the galaxy and seeing one in person being a rarity. I also still don't think it would have been too hard combining the events of TPM (meeting Amidala, meeting Anakin, Palpatine reaching higher office) with the start of the clone wars. I would also appreciate if Disney continued to have the courage to recast rather than deep fake. And an ongoing series would be a great way to even further distance themselves from Lucas's movies (not because they suck, because this really needs to be clearly distinct) especially as it selves deeper into the lore and details than movies allow you to. I wouldn't even mind if this used Andor as a springboard.
 
Part of me has been kinda ready for a reboot for a while. Keeping in mind I'll always have my OT blurays, I'd be perfectly fine if they wanted to give that a shot. One pitch I would make would be an ongoing TV series that did a This Is Us with going back and forth between two timelines following Anakin and Luke. I know this is probably the last thing fans who are tired of lightsabers and Skywalkers want to see, but it would be a way for Disney to set up their own damned star wars. And we could finally pursue the original idea of Luke scouring the galaxy for his sister rather than settling on it being the only female character already established. Also age Anakin up a little and maybe tell the PT story from his perspective. I always thought it would be interesting if he was the "Han Solo" of the PT: cunning pilot but also somewhat of a Force skeptic, specially if you want to go with the idea of fewer Jedi in the galaxy and seeing one in person being a rarity. I also still don't think it would have been too hard combining the events of TPM (meeting Amidala, meeting Anakin, Palpatine reaching higher office) with the start of the clone wars. I would also appreciate if Disney continued to have the courage to recast rather than deep fake. And an ongoing series would be a great way to even further distance themselves from Lucas's movies (not because they suck, because this really needs to be clearly distinct) especially as it selves deeper into the lore and details than movies allow you to. I wouldn't even mind if this used Andor as a springboard.

I'm not entirely against this, but I also think it will never, and could never, actually happen. These characters, and the actors that played them, are just so incredibly iconic - I'd say legendary at this point - that I suspect most people would view it as the deepest blasphemy to recast and retell the whole story. That's almost certainly a big part of the reason that Disney is so mired in trying to work around what Lucas already created, even if it sucked (fucking Midichlorians can suck my entire ass). That's why they're deepfaking everyone.

Hell, they're SO committed to never changing the originals that they secured JEJ's -fucking voice- before he died so they can put Darth Vader in anything they want for the rest of time without recasting even just a voice actor.

I think there would also be a huge amount of resistance (probably too much to overcome) to changes to iconic designs. You can't start over and not change things, right? But how many fans want a completely redesigned X-Wing, or blasters that aren't just WWII guns with an old pair of binoculars hot-glued to the side? Are we ready for a complete redesign to the Stormtrooper costume? Certainly, it's way easier to -add- things to the lore that don't necessarily adhere to the OT look of things. But actually erasing the original stuff and replacing it with something even moderately different? People would be angrier about this than they are about innocent people being denied due process and shipped off to foreign torture prisons.

Which is where George belongs for creating midichlorians.
 
I'm not entirely against this, but I also think it will never, and could never, actually happen. These characters, and the actors that played them, are just so incredibly iconic - I'd say legendary at this point - that I suspect most people would view it as the deepest blasphemy to recast and retell the whole story.
Absolutely correct. I do feel a reboot WILL happen, but maybe not in my lifetime. And I get how precious these movies and characters are to people; they certainly are to me. But that doesn't mean a new version couldn't be told. That's part of why I hope they do a Mon Mothma spinoff from Andor, following her (and whoever else survives the show) into the OT times, showing what she was doing during ANH etc. Just off camera at Yavin and what not. And would be a nice way to cameo the main trio with different actors, get people used to the idea a bit damnit.

I don't know... it's just disappointing that something that could be amazing (A Star Wars saga that's actually plotted out, start to finish, knowing the end and details before ever rolling cameras on the first scene) can't exist because people cling so hard to something that would continue to live.

What we need is another period like the late 80s until the mid 90s or so, where the franchise gets mostly dormant. Clearly that will not happen for a long time. Ultimately, oh well.
That's almost certainly a big part of the reason that Disney is so mired in trying to work around what Lucas already created
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. And I get it, I do. I also don't fault them for wanting to make money from something they invested so hard in.
Hell, they're SO committed to never changing the originals that they secured JEJ's -fucking voice- before he died so they can put Darth Vader in anything they want for the rest of time without recasting even just a voice actor.
Which is a bit of a shame since they had that one guy who did a fantastic job. I want to say he was the one doing those Chad Vader shorts, then got hired on to do some of the video games and some Lego stuff.
You can't start over and not change things, right?
Eh... you can but they probably would anyway. The aesthetics, I feel, wouldn't need to be touched. But it would probably end up being something akin to the JJ Abrams Trek movie where it's inspired by the original designs but taken further in another direction. And that's not something I'm really into.
Are we ready for a complete redesign to the Stormtrooper costume?
Absolutely not. I'm the one pitching this idea and I'm still completely imagining the original Stormtrooper designs. Disney has done some neat troopers in my opinion. I liked the basic enlisted trooper in Solo, really liked the Patrol trooper in the same movie, and love the Shoretrooper from Rogue One, but their basic ST Stormtrooper reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally did nothing for me. I'd really rather they leave the designs as is. If they change anything, maybe just the Falcon as far as making the interior set actually work inside the exterior design.
Certainly, it's way easier to -add- things to the lore
It is, and that's why I always come back to "Disney should just do an Old Republic story, and claim that era as their territory going forward". I know they're working on something exploring the origins of the Jedi Order and maybe that will be neat, but I'm also thinking more like the Darth Malgus period. Seriously, it's laid out pretty well, just take it.
People would be angrier about this than they are about innocent people being denied due process and shipped off to foreign torture prisons.
Hard agree.
Which is where George belongs for creating midichlorians.
Haw! I sense you have a bit of distaste for this concept.
 
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