Star Wars Black Series

Fletch said:
I exactly know what you mean.

It's too perfectly choreographed. You can get away with it a bit by claiming the Jedi's prescience allows them to always have the perfect block for the perfect strike, but on the surface the duels never seem like anybody's ever at risk until the final blow.

The Duel of the Fates in Phantom Menace is the exception, with lots of advances and setbacks until a shocking victory. By the time we get to the Obi/Ani duel, though, it's so precisely planned that they can just spin sabers at each other and consider it part of the fight.
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Damien said:
Pretty much. I mean.. I do have problems with TPM as well. It's definitely too much choreography in the choreography. Like you alluded to - it never looks like anyone is actively trying to kill the other person. It's always been common, but in my old age I've definitely grown a lot more weary of the 'attack the sword, not the swordsman' type of fight choreography. It just looks hollow and leaves me constantly yelling at the screen 'just hit THE GUY!'
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The thing that is missing from prequel era lightsaber fights is the fights themselves basically have only one speed. FAST.

Compare/contrast to Empire Strikes Back, where every time the camera cuts away from the fight to another scene and comes back, the fight changes tempo as the fighters get to know each other's capabilities. The choreography is *itself* storytelling. It keeps ramping up until that bit in the comm tower or whatever where Vader practically does a jump-scare and it's all heavy, fast carnage from there on.

George wanted it to be the height of the Jedi era so they are all more competent or whatever, but he sort of forgot that even within that zone there can be more variance. Like, Jackie Chan is one of the most talented physical action stars ever, but his fights always have stakes and such built into the action. Even int he prequel era, it should be clearer when one fighter is less skilled than the other, and it largely feels like they're always at max volume and roughly equal to each other in skill.

It never felt so much like anybody lost a fight, more that the plot just said "and now he wins". Nobody really gets tired or inured in a way that slows them down or that they have to compensate for. It's fancy parries for half an hour and then a killshot (or an injury that takes them totally out of the fight).
Schizm said:
I typically glaze over in fight scenes these days. Nothing about any of it feels remotely real or dangerous most of the time. It's always just ballet until it's time for the plot to advance.

I guess that's why I didn't hate the "twist" in Thunderbolts. Didn't like it, but it was at least something different.

Caveat - Andor vs. Syril. That one was good because it was one side rage, one side bewilderment which is a combo we don't get much, robbed only by the fact we know Cassian will be fine.
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You may know this, but this is largely because modern superhero movies have a whole separate unit that does the fights. Not just that films it, they plan the choreography and visuals and everything. They're basically given "Dave and Bill fight, Bill wins" and then go off on their own to plan it. It's why very little plot or character moments happen in those fights. It's actually been a bone of contention on some Marvel films where directors WANT to do that stuf and Marvel is like "no, we have this figured out, you do the talky-talky bits".
 
Damien said:
I think most fight scenes are always going to suffer from the fact that we usually know who is going to win and that's always going to take some of the drama out.
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I think this is only partially true. You know when Will Turner and Jack Sparrow have their first fight in Pirates of the Caribbean in the blacksmith shop, neither is going to die. They're both main characters. But that fight is still fantastic to watch because there's a lot of character work and information being dropped. It's where you find out Will knows how to fight, but also that the reason is because he wants to kill pirates specifically. It's where you find out about the bullet meant for Barbosa in Jack's gun. A lot is given to you in that fight besides choreography (though, that's the best, by the same dude who did Empire Strikes Back) that makes it more than fancy footwork and a minor set piece.
 
I do know that and I don't think it's working. I think those sequences are a major part of so-called "superhero fatigue" because half the films - the fight scenes - are pre-vized, soulless, character-less pixel dance routines.

I kept waiting for Superman to just hoist the Kaiju somewhere safe to work things out. That would have at least been different. Instead, punchy-punchy murder yawn.

And Damien, that's why that Andor scene got the caveat.
 
Schizm said:
I do know that and I don't think it's working. I think those sequences are a major part of so-called "superhero fatigue" because half the films - the fight scenes - are pre-vized, soulless, character-less pixel dance routines.

I kept waiting for Superman to just hoist the Kaiju somewhere safe to work things out. That would have at least been different. Instead, punchy-punchy murder yawn.

And Damien, that's why that Andor scene got the caveat.
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Totally agree. It's a great way to crank out 4 mediocre action movies a year, and not much else.
 
JakeEkiss said:
I think this is only partially true. You know when Will Turner and Jack Sparrow have their first fight in Pirates of the Caribbean in the blacksmith shop, neither is going to die. They're both main characters. But that fight is still fantastic to watch because there's a lot of character work and information being dropped. It's where you find out Will knows how to fight, but also that the reason is because he wants to kill pirates specifically. It's where you find out about the bullet meant for Barbosa in Jack's gun. A lot is given to you in that fight besides choreography (though, that's the best, by the same dude who did Empire Strikes Back) that makes it more than fancy footwork and a minor set piece.
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100% agree. But I'd argue that the Turner/Sparrow fight, one of my favorites in modern films, has largely become the exception to the rule. Weirdly enough, I also think John Wick 4 did a pretty good job of keeping you guessing for the final 'fight.' But Will/Jack are also in a different boat (har har, see what I did there?) because the fight happens so early that we don't have any expectations of who is going to win or lose - so the drama comes from wondering what we will learn, and how they will get out of this situation without killing each other. It's still drama about how the fight proceeds, just not drama about 'who is going to lose.'
 
Damien said:
100% agree. But I'd argue that the Turner/Sparrow fight, one of my favorites in modern films, has largely become the exception to the rule. Weirdly enough, I also think John Wick 4 did a pretty good job of keeping you guessing for the final 'fight.' But Will/Jack are also in a different boat (har har, see what I did there?) because the fight happens so early that we don't have any expectations of who is going to win or lose - so the drama comes from wondering what we will learn, and how they will get out of this situation without killing each other. It's still drama about how the fight proceeds, just not drama about 'who is going to lose.'
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That's sort of my point. Like, if you give fights more than one thing to do (determine a winner) they can always be interesting. It's just so many only do that these days. Andor/Syril is a good exception because it's a payoff and it doesn't overstay it's welcome. I think the Spiderverse fights also clear the bar because they're almost all doing massive character development while doing the punchy-punchy.
 
JakeEkiss said:
That's sort of my point. Like, if you give fights more than one thing to do (determine a winner) they can always be interesting. It's just so many only do that these days. Andor/Syril is a good exception because it's a payoff and it doesn't overstay it's welcome. I think the Spiderverse fights also clear the bar because they're almost all doing massive character development while doing the punchy-punchy.
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Definitely. I also think sometimes it can be okay to just do spectacle. It can be okay to just do a really cool fight scene where you already know who the winner is going to be and nothing happens besides a cool fight scene. But if you're going to do that, it better be a cool fight scene and not an over-choreographed dance party.
 
I'll give a pass to Captain America fight scenes which benefit a lot from Chris Evans' acting skills. I mean, you know he's going to win, but he's so good at making it look like *he* doesn't know if he's going to win. He looks like he really has to work for it. Except when he doesn't, when he just slaps a fool down, and those are their own acting moments.
 
Damien said:
But if you're going to do that, it better be a cool fight scene and not an over-choreographed dance party.
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Not enough Jackie Chans in the world to have that most times, sadly. Hard to work around actors who don't spend their lives doing the action stuff (or directors who aren't named something like Cameron, Spielberg, or Miller) without it just becoming a CGI fest.
 
Bespin Luke looks fantastic! Good likeness and great detail on the ripped up clothes. I wonder if they'll release this version as a single pack or if they'll only single pack a "clean" version.
 
The Anakin/Rex Pack choices are puzzling. They have this new Anakin mold they can use, they'll sell more I guarantee it, and they can just make a couple alterations to the P1 Rex to update the P2 Rex. But all they did was photoshop out the pins and give him longer kama? Looks like the exact same figure.

And the only way I care to get that Mace Windu set is if Mace has some glaringly obvious changes from the last... 3? I know there's more then that but I think only 2 or 3 are the exact same.

Bespin Luke is probably one of my favorite looks for him. But for some reason I don't really like the way this new one looks. Maybe cause its too scene specific. Getting a wired cape for Vader would be sweet, but I don't need it. Probably skip it. Hope Vaders cape gets released later in a single card.

The rest I will most likely get. I'll probably even preorder alot of it. I'll get Qimir, and maybe a 2nd one if I see him on sale. Asajj is awesome. She is also one of my favorite stories from the prequels. Her entire arc is very well written imo.

Buying Jango. The old one is dated and doesn't wanna stand up. His feet are way too tiny. And the head had some really bad paint. The new one looks much better, except it doesn't look as much like Tam as I think it should.

I do think there are bits in the prequel fights that are fairly ludicrous. But I always chalked it up to the Jedi precog. That Palpatine fight, oof. That was a let down though. After seeing that test footage from what it should've been, as well as how the Obi Wan/Grievous fight was also supposed to be longer, what we got was a big letdown.



















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The rots Anakin/Obi-Wan set will be on Pulse 8/1/25, no mention of time or how premium status affects it.
 
Trunks3540 said:
Bespin Luke is probably one of my favorite looks for him. But for some reason I don't really like the way this new one looks. Maybe cause its too scene specific. Getting a wired cape for Vader would be sweet, but I don't need it. Probably skip it. Hope Vaders cape gets released later in a single card.
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Not to rain on your Imperial Parade, but if anything in this set ends up being exclusive, I would fully expect it to be the bases and Vader's cape. Just because of how this team seems to roll. Or if we get a wired cape again, it'll just be in a different big set or multi-pack situation. Just my guess, of course.
 
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