Star Wars Black Series

[Ru1977]

That's understandable. I've spent my life quietly ignoring the many stupid things about the OT specifically because I grew up on it.

 

[docsilence]

Stranger and Asajj for me. I will literally get Asajj in any format they make her. Love that character so much.

 

[JakeEkiss]

I wish they could have worked that into one of the opening Crawls


But I totally agree, it is ALL stupid when it comes to the office dual scene. It's just one of those things that's really bad that I can look past. I think it's because I was younger and the Prequels are what got me in to Star Wars. Because I am much harder on some of the foolish choices and writing from things in the Disney Era.

I was explaining the other day to some of the college students who work for me (I'm in my 40s) that they love the prequels because they were young, but that in ten years their kids will love the sequel trilogy just as much. They would not believe me but I know. I've been there. It'll happen to you....

 

[JakeEkiss]

Stranger and Asajj for me. I will literally get Asajj in any format they make her. Love that character so much.

I'm in for Asajj just because the last version of her never quite worked for me. I still hope they go back at some point and do a box set or something of her in the Clone Wars cartoon black and white outfit like they did for Grievous. In lieu of that, Bounty Hunter Asajj will definitely do.

I'd also take Bad Batch version, but that seems a ways off.

 

[Fletch]

And the choreography is terrible.

Bruv, there are some videos out there of Nick Gillard's original choreography for that scene and it's epic. The story goes that, on the day of shooting, Lucas decided he wanted 60-year-old Ian McDiarmid to do all the fighting himself. You know, for the acting. So they had to come up with some simple shit on the fly.

Several years later, someone would tell Lucas about a film technique called "the insert".

Edit: found it!

 

[JakeEkiss]

That's understandable. I've spent my life quietly ignoring the many stupid things about the OT specifically because I grew up on it.

The fact that Lucas got away with a flagrant, in your face retcon as one of the most quoted twists in cinema history... and then did THE EXACT SAME FLAGRANT RETCON THE VERY NEXT MOVIE.

I can't even be mad. Get that paper, George.

 

[JakeEkiss]

Bruv, there are some videos out there of Nick Gallard's original choreography for that scene and it's epic. The story goes that, on the day of shooting, Lucas decided he wanted 60-year-old Ian McDiarmid to do all the fighting himself. You know, for the acting. So they had to come up with some simple shit on the fly.

Several years later, someone would tell Lucas about a film technique called "the insert".

Edit: found it!

What's wild is Lucas was thought of, among his peers at the time, as a sort of savant. And if you watch American Graffiti back to back with Star Wars I sort of get why. But I think he was always a better organizer, better at talent acquisition, than writing... or directing... or editing (remember the whole 3rd act of New Hope was basically invented in the edit by his wife)...

 

[Fletch]

100%

George Lucas' God-given super power is the ability to recognize talent. I'm not saying he started their careers, but you don't accidentally assemble Harrison Ford, John Williams and Ben Burtt.

 

[JakeEkiss]

George Lucas' God-given super power is the ability to recognize talent. I'm not saying he started their careers, but you don't accidentally assemble Harrison Ford, John Williams and Ben Burtt.

Honestly that's not even the half of it. The murderer's row of talent he pulled together for ILM is astonishing. The ILM doc on Disney+ is surprisingly good (in that it actually shows a lot of the warts in the process, it's not just a hagiography) and shows how gobsmackingly skilled that group was. Just a bananas creative team.

 

[Chooch555]

I had to look up hagiography. I like learning new words!

 

[Damien]

Bruv, there are some videos out there of Nick Gillard's original choreography for that scene and it's epic. The story goes that, on the day of shooting, Lucas decided he wanted 60-year-old Ian McDiarmid to do all the fighting himself. You know, for the acting. So they had to come up with some simple shit on the fly.

Several years later, someone would tell Lucas about a film technique called "the insert".

Edit: found it!

I've seen that and it makes me so angry. Like, I generally don't -like- the prequel choreography, but I also think it's VERY good (is that weird?). And what George did to that fight is just criminal.

 

[Fletch]

I generally don't -like- the prequel choreography, but I also think it's VERY good

I exactly know what you mean.

It's too perfectly choreographed. You can get away with it a bit by claiming the Jedi's prescience allows them to always have the perfect block for the perfect strike, but on the surface the duels never seem like anybody's ever at risk until the final blow.

The Duel of the Fates in Phantom Menace is the exception, with lots of advances and setbacks until a shocking victory. By the time we get to the Obi/Ani duel, though, it's so precisely planned that they can just spin sabers at each other and consider it part of the fight.

 

[Damien]

I exactly know what you mean.

It's too perfectly choreographed. You can get away with it a bit by claiming the Jedi's prescience allows them to always have the perfect block for the perfect strike, but on the surface the duels never seem like anybody's ever at risk until the final blow.

The Duel of the Fates in Phantom Menace is the exception, with lots of advances and setbacks until a shocking victory. By the time we get to the Obi/Ani duel, though, it's so precisely planned that they can just spin sabers at each other and consider it part of the fight.

Pretty much. I mean.. I do have problems with TPM as well. It's definitely too much choreography in the choreography. Like you alluded to - it never looks like anyone is actively trying to kill the other person. It's always been common, but in my old age I've definitely grown a lot more weary of the 'attack the sword, not the swordsman' type of fight choreography. It just looks hollow and leaves me constantly yelling at the screen 'just hit THE GUY!'

 

[Schizm]

I typically glaze over in fight scenes these days. Nothing about any of it feels remotely real or dangerous most of the time. It's always just ballet until it's time for the plot to advance.

I guess that's why I didn't hate the "twist" in Thunderbolts. Didn't like it, but it was at least something different.

Caveat - Andor vs. Syril. That one was good because it was one side rage, one side bewilderment which is a combo we don't get much, robbed only by the fact we know Cassian will be fine.

 

[Damien]

Caveat - Andor vs. Syril. That one was good because it was one side rage, one side bewilderment which is a combo we don't get much, robbed only by the fact we know Cassian will be fine.

BUT, we didn't know that Syril wouldn't be. Not for sure. They had been setting up the possibility of him realizing he's on the wrong side. Big name characters don't usually get fairly unceremonious ends, so I thought how they handled that very well and kept you guessing, as much as they really could.

I think most fight scenes are always going to suffer from the fact that we usually know who is going to win and that's always going to take some of the drama out. I believe that's one of the main reasons people still talk about the TPM fight. Not because it was necessarily a really good fight sequence, but because it had great music and a very dramatic, unexpected conclusion.