Odious Cowboy and Soldier Kickstarter

[altcunningham]

You may be overthinking the whole thing. Like AgentHemlock said, someone may just like the look of the figure. Doesn't mean they feel compelled to learn or care about any potential source material. Or expect to start up a new collection. They may just like that one figure. In this case, maybe someone likes the idea of bigfoot wearing clothes. Doesn't have to be more than that.

I suppose the Gomez thing may just be a cult movement. I know some Mezco One Collective fans are a bit obsessed with that line and can't handle any criticism of it. I suppose they may be gobbling up Gomez and Rumble Society figures. Honestly, some of the Rumble Society figures and items look neat, but I find it easy to just skip the whole lot. Especially at the prices they charge.

I know I've bought and enjoyed plenty of figures and toys just because I like the look of the item. And feel no need to be attached to any line the figures are attached to. Nor care about the media. Sometimes something just appeals to you and you get it.

As a former Gomez collector, you can ride this convo back to the Hypebeast culture we discussed about the Kith thing.

It's a whole different scene.

 

[altcunningham]

My friend called this Wade's fursona and that's where I'm going to set up camp.

 

[AgentHemlock]

From the perspective of someone who hangs in Wade's livestreams: whether or not it's a self insert (the same could be asked about a lot of artist's characters), Odious has a decent amount of lore cooked up, and the plan if tariffs put the kibosh on making figures was to move forward with a comic instead. Wade is heavily inspired by classic monster comics and monster movies, and knows his stuff. I'm excited to see what he comes up with and I hope he succeeds. It's really really hard to make things—many people don't stick their necks out there because there are a lot of people ready to throw stones, on top of all the work it takes.

Part of the story is Odious is a spirit that consumes the body of an unfortunate mortal, so the story works anthology style, as different people's lives are taken up at different points in time, hence the different oufits.

Wade's a pugilistic guy, but he has a good heart, is genuine, and 99% of the time has very reasoned takes. He promotes community and indie artists all the time. He uses his platform to boost others.

There's a reason why his livestream is one of the few ones Robo does these days. Robo gets it.

He does come from the hip hop scene though and used to rap, and primarily listens to hip hop. Cursing isn't the same in all cultures. But I say this as someone who lived in Philly for 30+ years and code switches.

 

[Damien]

whether or not it's a self insert (the same could be asked about a lot of artist's characters),

Not to keep banging on about this; but a self-insert isn't the same thing as a vanity project. If the entire project and all of the 'lore' revolves around your personal avatar/mascot (not a character you happened to create, either, but literally your online avatar/mascot) - that is a vanity project. HAVING a self-insert character in a piece of media is not, in and of itself. If Odious, for example, were one of ten characters in an ongoing series of action figures - then he'd just be part of the world, unless he were the main and only important character. Then it's just a weak backstory excuse to do your vanity project.

But again, because it seems like that really stuck in your craw a little bit; there's nothing inherently wrong with a vanity project. There's plenty of them in the world, of varying quality. The question isn't whether doing a vanity project is worthwhile. It's more about why people who are not you, the person whose vanity is being sated, want to be involved. It FEELS a lot like that parasocial relationship people have with YT personalities and it gives me the ick, personally.

I have absolutely no problem with Wade. I've watched him and Robo lots of times. He seems very cool and nothing I've said is intended as a dig against him or his work. It's just a description thereof.

 

[altcunningham]

To answer your question in general:

I want to be involved in projects like this solely because I like supporting artists who read as authentic to me when the art speaks to me.

This does not speak to me, but I think it's cool he sees success with it and that it reaches people, because I want the same for my art.

I never really cared about Bigfoot, but if he made something else, I have handled the first figure and I know the quality and care is there. It is a great action figure as a lover of action figures. I just don't want this. Anything else, he ventures, I might support, even if I don't consume his content.

I'm still figuring out if I consider this a vanity project or self insert or just something he thought was cool and cooked up and happens to use as his branding. I don't think it's any different than the people who buy Jada's cereal dudes, but those also don't speak to me.

 

[AgentHemlock]

Perhaps I'm confused by your rhetoric. You seem to be going out of your way to say you don't mean to disparage the idea while at the same time using language that clearly sounds disparaging. To speak out of both sides of your mouth, as it were. This thread's also brought out people to take a couple cracks at the guy, whose posts you liked, and I addressed.

I mean I can copy and paste your own words back to you, or you could just reread them.

Less stuck in my craw, but I am clearly stating where I think Wade is coming from and to a degree defending him or others that go out and make something on that scale. Not everything is for everyone, but with all that is on in the world, I see Wade as a small fry whose passionate and making and doing things. By all means, this doesn't make his action figure beyond criticism, but I don't actually hear criticism of his product, his shipping, his delivery, his price—it seems like a blanket dismissal of people who'd want something that you don't on the grounds that you don't want it.

Which to me, is like—different strokes for different folks. Some people buy for nostalgia and to reconnect with their childhood. Some buy because it's something they currently are into and get excited by. Some buy figures based on IPs that they love, even if they don't love the figure itself. Some people only buy a figure for the figure's sake—like you see with Damtoys, FuRay Toys, lots of third party stuff, etc. It's not that complicated.

I personally don't want cereal mascot figures, or a million Marvel Legends, or like 80% of the stuff that gets made, but I understand why they get made—not everyone is like me, and that's a good thing.

 

[altcunningham]

Ha, we both made the cereal figure point within seconds.

High five.

 

[Damien]

. You seem to be going out of your way to say you don't mean to disparage the idea while at the same time using language that clearly sounds disparaging.

I don't even know what to say to that except 'nope.' I'm not using disparaging language. You can jump to Wade's defense all day long. I have no problem with that. Thing is, what are you defending him against? What is the 'disparaging' commentary? That it's a vanity project? The thing I repeatedly said isn't a bad thing in and of itself? Maybe you liking Wade and being a member of his community is making you a touch oversensitive on this and seeing offense where it isn't being given? Respectfully.

This thread's also brought out people to take a couple cracks at the guy, whose posts you liked

For clarity - if you're talking about Rick - I liked his post for being an honest personal take. It was a 'good post, I appreciate your thoughts' thumbs up. Not because he and I are 100% aligned. I outright said that I like Wade just fine. And I don't think anyone would accuse me of having a problem with gratuitous swearing.

Less stuck in my craw, but I am clearly stating where I think Wade is coming from and to a degree defending him or others that go out and make something on that scale

I didn't insult anyone for doing 'something on that scale.' I outright said I understand why a creator would want to do it.

By all means, this doesn't make his action figure beyond criticism, but I don't actually hear criticism of his product, his shipping, his delivery, his price—it seems like a blanket dismissal of people who'd want something that you don't on the grounds that you don't want it.

Then maybe I'm not the one that should re-read what I said. Genuinely not trying to attack you at all or insult you, but just this bit right here reinforces for me that maybe your reading of this conversation (that is, my part of the conversation) is being colored not by what I'm actually saying, but by a knee-jerk reaction to defend someone you like and being more prone to see an attack wherever there isn't praise.

Which to me, is like—different strokes for different folks. Some people buy for nostalgia and to reconnect with their childhood. Some buy because it's something they currently are into and get excited by. Some buy figures based on IPs that they love, even if they don't love the figure itself. Some people only buy a figure for the figure's sake—like you see with Damtoys, FuRay Toys, lots of third party stuff, etc. It's not that complicated.

Yup. I agree.

not everyone is like me, and that's a good thing.

Can't argue with that.

I want to be involved in projects like this solely because I like supporting artists who read as authentic to me when the art speaks to me.

This I do actually get. I think that's why I wanted to separate this from his first go 'round. When toys were less expensive, some of you may remember, I was all over the place on Fwoosh trying to drum up support for smaller companies. As I had to get pickier, I still posted a lot in support of companies doing cool things, especially when they seemed passionate about it (which I'd say is most of the smaller creators in this space, in particular).

What got me on this particular project is it felt like going back to the well of 'it's ME again' rather than doing something new (that is, expanding on what he had done - not making something totally new IP-wise or expression-wise). That's what got me asking the question, to myself and obviously here; who are these for? How many collectors out there just want 20 variations of Mighty Spector instead of Draego-Man and Fearless Photog, if that makes sense. At what point is it not the beginning of this cool new thing and literally just a vanity project that really only appeals to hangers-on that think Wade is the coolest dude that ever duded?

I even said outright that I also don't get why people are so supportive of Gomez (not Rumble Society at large, because I do understand just the 'I like cool toys' answer, but more at what point do you have enough roach-men and won't support more of Mezco just selling you their mascot instead of literally anything else they could be doing). So it's not like I'm singling Wade out here, or - again - saying that what he's doing is bad or whatever. I just don't get it. Is it REALLY just that that many people have always wanted multiple Bigfoot Men in different outfits? Maybe it is! Hence it being a question and not a statement of 'Wade sucks and this figure sucks.'

 

[altcunningham]

Gomez I can speak out of my ass on.

He's a roach. I think Gomez reads as Neutral representation, the same way Spidey can, where it's anybody under the mask. Roach, in this case. I know a lot of people of colour that love him because it's not another white dude, which a lot of heroes are. It's just a cool looking neutral thing that can be a samurai, spaceman, Hypebeast, whatever. Look at the people who rep Mezco most, it's a lot of non white voices, and a big hip hop and punk aesthetic.

Personally, I always read him as Invader Zim and was thrilled when we finally got a head in those colours.

It's also a great (or was) buck. Gomez led to many customs.

But really, it's the Barbie/old Joe frame but now it's a roach. And Roach (Barbie) can be Anything.

This also applies to the Skulls.

I don't think it has anything to do with Mezco or Mascots. They just happen to provide the framework.

That's just my lived experienced as a fan in those circles.

 

[Damien]

Gomez I can speak out of my ass on.

He's a roach. I think Gomez reads as Neutral representation, the same way Spidey can, where it's anybody under the mask. Roach, in this case. I know a lot of people of colour that love him because it's not another white dude, which a lot of heroes are. It's just a cool looking neutral thing that can be a samurai, spaceman, Hypebeast, whatever. Look at the people who rep Mezco most, it's a lot of non white voices, and a big hip hop and punk aesthetic.

Personally, I always read him as Invader Zim and was thrilled when we finally got a head in those colours.

It's also a great (or was) buck. Gomez led to many customs.

But really, it's the Barbie/old Joe frame but now it's a roach. And Roach (Barbie) can be Anything.

This also applies to the Skulls.

I don't think it has anything to do with Mezco or Mascots. They just happen to provide the framework.

That's just my lived experienced as a fan in those circles.

So Gomez is like a Kamen Rider type thing to some people? That's actually a super interesting idea I'd never considered.

 

[altcunningham]

There were some really great custom ideas and execution in my Gomez groups. Entirely new concepts and crafting going on, different from Legends kitbashing or repaints.

It is a different vibe than just editing an IP to be what you preferred or remembered. They are building everything up from the ground up and coming up with their own lore. A lot of the community was very supportive about sharing resources and getting custom props or soft goods to people so they could riff off of each other.

It really reminds me of like the DIY stuff within the punk community. I really don't think it has to do with the mascot. It just is like a character that provides a springboard for the imagination. And you see this with a lot of third-party releases too now that we're getting more and more accessible bucks and accessories at great prices. Some people were buying Gomez solely just to get more of those bodies, gimmick be damned.

Blade was on a Gomez body and it was a rarity to even have a ready black male to customize. He was very popular.

I think it's cool that a lot of the new third party bodies are giving a range of skin tones. One of my best friends is a Jamaican woman and she's always interested whenever I get a new female character of color, cuz she likes to see how they handled the features and hair and skin tone. And it's one of those small things where representation is important, because she just has no interest in another Batman that I picked up, but if I get a new Storm or Bishop, she has all kinds of questions and ideas about how to improve it or dress it up with accessories.

So yeah I think it is like a Kamen Rider thing, because when you just make it universal representation, you see a creative spark come alive.

 

[Damien]

Sounds a lot like why I got heavily, for a while, into the HACKS customizing communities on Facebook. Those figures were 100% designed for mix-and-match and so many people were customizing them like crazy and creating their own stories and unique characters. That kind of creativity is often lacking in toy collecting, since most of us collect primarily (or solely) from established IPs. I had NO idea that people did that with Gomez. I just thought people were gobbling up all this roach people because of the Mezco effect (it'll be worth a lot later, it's rare/expensive/it makes Mez like me, etc). Thanks for sharing that.

 

[altcunningham]

I really don't get why they don't have an evergreen Gomez and Skulls.

Ironically, I think it's Mezco that buys into their hype and enforces the Mezco Effect you describe.

 

[Damien]

Ironically, I think it's Mezco that buys into their hype and enforces the Mezco Effect you describe.

No argument there.

They did finally tell me to fuck off with my Conan figure they were promising to replace/repair for like 2 years. So I mean... yeah. Mezco is a company.

 

[RicksNerdLife]

This thread's also brought out people to take a couple cracks at the guy, whose posts you liked, and I addressed.

To be clear: that wasn't a crack on Wade. I stated why I didn't care for the guy, I related it back to the toy and why I wouldn't support it, and that was that. I'm sorry if you feel some sort of way about it, not trying to drum up some big controversy or stink over it, genuinely. If he's your boy, I'm not asking you to start joining me in a big slam fest over him. Just talking on a forum. Carry on.