Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

[joshsquash729]

I'm kinda Meh on Ironheart; it looks fun enough, but also like it's not quite my cup of tea; then again, Ms. Marvel didn't look like it was, and I ended up enjoying that, but I do think that's in large part to Iman Vellani, who I think is just quite charming. I think if this show had been our first introduction to Riri, that could've helped- because like others said, she really did feel quite shoehorned in to BP2, and wasn't handled in a way where I really felt the desire to learn more about her (and I'm usually pretty forgiving with things like that). I always get a little wary whenever something- especially a trailer- outright tells me how smart a character is multiple times. There's a reason I've kept forgetting this is coming out- Disney just ain't really promoting it; I think it's a little telling that they're releasing 3 of the 6 episodes all at once, too.

But I'll definitely give it a try! If nothing else, the Hood character and the blend of tech and mysticism has me intrigued. I always go in wanting to enjoy things, and I can't say off the top of my head if I've really outright hated any MCU project. Heck- even some of the more objectively well done ones like Loki season 2 weren't quite my speed, so to each their own. There's definitely a place for the more shlocky, fun, comic book-y projects too. Not everything is going to land with everyone, but everything is going to land with someone; if nothing else, I applaud them for doing so many different kinds of projects that appeal to so many- it's a branching out that I think Star Wars needs to embrace a little more. The material and the formula is there- it's tried and tested- so don't be afraid to branch out a little bit and make something that appeals to a smaller audience.

I was reading that VisionQuest is supposedly going to be the last MCU show with a strong tie to the movies. Essentially, they want to make it so you don't feel like the shows are required viewing to understand what's going on in the movies, and vice versa. For the most part, I think that's a pretty good idea, just so long as the quality remains high enough that it feels like the shows are worth watching.

 

[Ru1977]

Iman Vellani, who I think is just quite charming

Completely agree. The tone and style of the show didn't turn me off, but she is far and away the biggest factor for why I kept watching, and my favorite aspect of The Marvels, though I really like both of the other leads.

she really did feel quite shoehorned in to BP2

Probably... I've only seen WF once and had other problems with it, so any issues I may have had with Riri were kinda eclipsed.

There's a reason I've kept forgetting this is coming out- Disney just ain't really promoting it; I think it's a little telling that they're releasing 3 of the 6 episodes all at once, too.

And they filmed it three years ago. They've really been stumbling with how many projects they think they want to do per year, so I hope the new plan sticks just so they can have some kinda consistency. And yeah, it seems like they weren't really sure what to do with this once it was done. It's a shame because the character and concept can be really cool, especially as we've all said with having tech vs magic stuff.

I can't say off the top of my head if I've really outright hated any MCU project.

I guess technically the same for me. There are a few I am likely to never watch again, but don't regret watching them. So yeah, no hate. I don't know if I really even hated Secret Invasion, which I never finished.

Essentially, they want to make it so you don't feel like the shows are required viewing to understand what's going on in the movies, and vice versa. For the most part, I think that's a pretty good idea, just so long as the quality remains high enough that it feels like the shows are worth watching.

And I never really saw anything as required as I didn't think everything was so tightly tied together as everyone always made it out to be. I also know several people who never got around to watching this or that, but showed up for Avengers movies. One of my wife's brothers watched the Antman movies in completely reverse order because that's how he came upon them while searching Disney Plus. He also watched Infinity War then Endgame then Avengers then Age of Ultron and claims he loved them. I don't think he's watched any of the shows either. I also firmly believe every single project, be it show, movie, or sequel, needs to stand on its own. Even when it has a cliffhanger or resolves one, it needs to do enough to establish who the characters are, how they relate, what they want, and what they need to overcome. It's basic stuff. Spider-Man is on a field trip, swings in to save Mr. Stark, their relationship is quickly established even if you missed Civil War and Homecoming, without ever slowing the action.

In some cases (MOM) it's probably better if you didn't watch the show it supposedly connected with, since Wanda's arc was sorta repeated and undone.

 

[Fletch]

Ms. Marvel didn't look like it was, and I ended up enjoying that, but I do think that's in large part to Iman Vellani, who I think is just quite charming.

Preach. Vellani was literally the only reason I watched Ms. Marvel. She was so effortlessly charming. The rest of the show was trash, but Kamala (and her family) were a treat.

I was reading that VisionQuest is supposedly going to be the last MCU show with a strong tie to the movies.

I'd kind of thought that, when they did Moon Knight and then Werewolf by Night, they were cordoning off a section of the MCU for a Midnight Sons/Darkholde-centric mini-universe. Then they concluded Wanda's story in Dr. Strange and I was all "nevermind."

 

[SDcomics]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1924103752069337117

 

[Ru1977]

I know a lot of fans will be happy if this is one of those times MyTimeToShineHello is right.

 

[PantherCult]

Some of these Marvel Disney+ shows have been pretty underwhelming and felt so unnecessary.

Which of the shows were so disappointing?

Loki was really well done. I've recently rewatched Hawkeye and Echo and those shows were solid and did a good job integrating Kingpin into the Marvel Universe.

I suppose She-Hulk could be viewed as frivolous... but they were trying something different. And even then parts of that show were good and fun.

The Nick Fury show was definitely the weakest offering, but it did extend the skrull story and close the loop on some things, so wasn't entirely frivolous.

 

[CTV]

The only D+ shows I didn't like were Secret Invasion, which was awful, and What If?, which was mid, and squandered its premise. The rest have been solid to great IMO. Secret Invasion is down there with Thor 2, Iron Man 3, and Inhumans for me. I never watched Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

 

[fac]

Let to the party but did enjoy Thunderbolts*. Good return to form.

Spoiler: Some TB stuff

Not sure I fully get how the Void came to be exactly (probably not important) and how Bob's body isn't dead from the kill switch, but OK. I am going to assume Taskmaster is still around by the way, not sure why, but I think they wouldn't have bothered to keep her in the publicity if not for future plans. I feel they have lost the plot a bit around the government role in things, although my suspicion is that Kang was going to be pulling strings...

So, odds that Doom is in the FF film, maybe a last minute stowaway on the FF ship...?

Part way through, right around the time that Yelena is at her lowest and is breaking down and calling Alexei "Daddy" (a well done scene), it really struck me that the main issue I think the MCU has right now is that far too many of their leads really lack the natural charm/charisma/connection that they had with their initial leads in Downey, Evans, Bozeman, Hemsworth, ScarJo and Pratt (and others like Batista, Jackson, Hiddleston, even Gregg, etc.).

Pugh (see the scene mentioned above), Vellani, Steinfeld and Maslany (and Letitia but maybe a bit less) all have that charisma and I so want to see them together as I think it could be great.

I just don't get that "extra something" with the left over leads in Mackey, Rudd, Stan, Ruffalo, Liu and Larson - as much as like them as actors and they are all good in their roles, but... I don't know how to describe it but it lacks something. (Rudd and Larson are the most disappointing as I think they do have "it" but it hasn't really come out). Only Holland and Cumberbatch I feel have it in a way that makes me think they are their characters and make me enjoy/root for them. (Need to include Cox in here as another true lead with the right charisma)

 

[Ru1977]

Some good points, especially Rudd and Larson. What I have seen of both in other stuff, it IS surprising at how they don't come across as leads for the greater MCU here. Liu at least isn't leaning so hard into being a Goofsters as Rudd at least. But hard agree about Pugh, Vellani, Steinfeld, and Maslany. Leticia is hard for me, and I know I already used this excuse about Iron Heart but... I should really give WF another watch because there were aspects I had a real problem with movie that have nothing to do with performances or charisma. Basically it really comes down to how much I hated having these two cultures that are kinda an idealized version for both, at war with each other.

 

[fac]

I know a lot of fans will be happy if this is one of those times MyTimeToShineHello is right.

I'd like to see some of the Agents of SHIELD gang back, given the show sort of (inadvertently) introduced the idea of divergent time streams as they disconnected it from the main MCU.

 

[Ru1977]

I fell off that show ... I think during the second season maybe? I didn't stick with it long, but the cast was interesting enough and I really wouldn't mind if they're thrown back into canon, even via secret wars restructuring or something.

 

[Schizm]

I just don't get that "extra something" with the left over leads in Mackey, Rudd, Stan, Ruffalo, Liu and Larson - as much as like them as actors and they are all good in their roles, but... I don't know how to describe it but it lacks something. (Rudd and Larson are the most disappointing as I think they do have "it" but it hasn't really come out). Only Holland and Cumberbatch I feel have it in a way that makes me think they are their characters and make me enjoy/root for them. (Need to include Cox in here as another true lead with the right charisma)

This is a really important point. Falcon and Winter Soldier proved those two aren't really leading men in the MCU and really that should have been the story hinge of their show. Ruffalo has never been given a shot to be more than supporting (though I've never much cared for his acting, especially recently). Rudd is just fine when he's given jokes with weight - or an actual set. I'm hoping Simu is awesome in his next appearance. Hey Ken!

I'm real curious what the plan is for Brie and why no one seems to be able to harness her well (ironic given how much time this role lands her in a harness).

Letitia was perfect for Shuri as originally conceived - turning her into BP I think was a mistake. She was so serious and none of her spark was used in that costume. Granted, that was the third act of a very sad arc, so I'm hopeful they will let her be more herself next time out.

 

[Ru1977]

Ruffalo has never been given a shot to be more than supporting

To be fair, there's rights issues to blame.

I'm real curious what the plan is for Brie and why no one seems to be able to harness her well

Harness her well meaning what?

Letitia was perfect for Shuri as originally conceived - turning her into BP I think was a mistake. She was so serious and none of her spark was used in that costume. Granted, that was the third act of a very sad arc, so I'm hopeful they will let her be more herself next time out.

I agree she was perfect, and a really fun foil for T'Challa. I totally get everything was turned upside down, but I do agree she shouldn't have been put in the BP role. Okoye would have made sense, but (without the child aspect) Nakia would have been my number one choice. I would have totally accepted M'baku though. I get that may be a blasphemy for comic readers (I'm honestly not sure, but seems like he's more of a straight forward villain in the books), but that would have jibed with his trajectory on screen.

 

[Schizm]

MCU-wise, Okoye becoming BP would have been awesome - and already set up. Though she did just start killing her own people on the whim of a just-showed-up literal killmonger in the first one, so... maybe Nakia.

I really wonder if Chadwick hadn't died if Shuri would have been Namor's target and Riri wouldn't have been in the movie. That's a theory I read three years ago that still makes too much story-sense to not be right.

They can't figure out Carol's personality. She's fun - but amnesiac and no fun. She's one of the boys - but not. She's feminine - but not. She's gruff - and then she's not. She likes Valkyrie (but mostly off-screen shhhhhhh). She's good at saving the universe - but also really bad at it (see: Skrulls, Annihilator). She's a good aunt - but not.

"No one cares more than Carol. And no one gets more grief than her." - paraphrase, Nick - this line is designed to write around all of the above, but TPTB just can't pick a lane for her and then reshoot her into another lane.

 

[AceofKnaves]

Ironheart is a weird one for me, as it’s a vector of characters from the comics I just don’t have a connection to nor care for (Riri, The Hood), and also is a legacy character for my least favorite character in the whole MCU (time has not softened how repelled I am by MCU Tony Stark: indeed, I find him even more vile and non-heroic now than I did during the Infinity Saga and one day I will write an essay about how that character enabled a lot of the disgusting real-life douchebag-fascist billionaire worship we currently suffer from as a culture). Also Namor wasn’t enough to get me to watch Wakanda Forever since they, in my opinion, made the HUGE mistake of not recasting T’Challa, and I’m about as interested in a Black Panther movie without Black Panther as I would be interested in a Batman movie without Batman: which is to say, not.
That said, I’ve been mostly happy with the MCU post-Endgame, generally moreso than pre-Endgame, so I’ll probably give it a shot.