Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

I am beginning to think that D+ shows have been branded internally as the problem for why the feature films have been underperforming (too many characters, too much content, causing storyline confusion, whatever), which is unfortunate as I think the D+ shows have been, in general, more compelling than the feature films post-Endgame.
 
fac said:
I am beginning to think that D+ shows have been branded internally as the problem for why the feature films have been underperforming (too many characters, too much content, causing storyline confusion, whatever), which is unfortunate as I think the D+ shows have been, in general, more compelling than the feature films post-Endgame.
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100% agree. Even when the shows aren't exactly what I'm looking for, I find them more engaging and well-planned than the films lately. (I mean... I REALLY liked Falcon and the Winter Soldier and snoozed through BNW so even if it's the same characters I like the shows more.)
 
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fac said:
I am beginning to think that D+ shows have been branded internally as the problem for why the feature films have been underperforming (too many characters, too much content, causing storyline confusion, whatever), which is unfortunate as I think the D+ shows have been, in general, more compelling than the feature films post-Endgame.
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If I agree with you, it's probably driven by my dislike for going to the movie theater anymore, heh.

But I remember when Star Trek V came out, and did poorly. Leonard Nimoy apparently told Shatner (who had directed) that a big part of why the audience didn't turn out was TNG. Why do to the theater to Trek when you can just tune in every week in the comfort of your own home? Maybe there's some truth to that, I don't know. VI did better (V made half it's budget back, VI did three times its budget) so maybe there's more than that for why V did poorly. (For the record, I know V sucks.)
 
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docsilence said:
(I mean... I REALLY liked Falcon and the Winter Soldier and snoozed through BNW so even if it's the same characters I like the shows more.)
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Which is saying something, since both were kneecapped by rewrites done in the editing room, AND F&WS was done during the pandemic I think.
 
Ru1977 said:
Leonard Nimoy apparently told Shatner (who had directed) that a big part of why the audience didn't turn out was TNG. Why do to the theater to Trek when you can just tune in every week in the comfort of your own home?
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I am sure that when a film hits with audiences and people tell their friends they saw it and liked it, that draws interest and drives ticket sales. But D+ might also mean that if people decide based on the buzz that it isn't an immediate must say at movie prices, they will skip it in theaters and wait for D+ to show it in a few months - which is like "I'll wait for video" but on a larger scale. It doesn't help that a single ticket to a theater is the cost of D+ for a month.

I think the initial plan for more direct lead-in would have worked and driven engagement for both D+ and Features - like when WandaVision was going to be followed by MoM in theaters just a month or so after the last episode aired, not the 14 month gap that happened. Iron Heart should have been on within 6 weeks of Wakanda Forever. Quantumania just a month or so after Loki S1 to keep momentum with Kang.

Eternals might have worked better as a series in my opinion, really follow them through time and then get a half-dozen episodes knowing the characters before it falls apart. F&WS could have been a movie, and been used to really put a stake in the ground that the MCU was moving on with a new Cap and new characters. But not how it played out...
 
fac said:
I am sure that when a film hits with audiences and people tell their friends they saw it and liked it, that draws interest and drives ticket sales. But D+ might also mean that if people decide based on the buzz that it isn't an immediate must say at movie prices, they will skip it in theaters and wait for D+ to show it in a few months - which is like "I'll wait for video" but on a larger scale. It doesn't help that a single ticket to a theater is the cost of D+ for a month.
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EXACTLY. I remember "I'll wait for video" was even a bigger statement because that could be at least six months! With Disney Plus, it's what? Half that? I was looking into box office stuff the other day for older movies and saw how some movies were still making serious money MONTHS after release, where now a movie gets two weeks to breathe, and even big hits are out of most theaters after one month.
fac said:
I think the initial plan for more direct lead-in would have worked and driven engagement for both D+ and Features - like when WandaVision was going to be followed by MoM in theaters just a month or so after the last episode aired, not the 14 month gap that happened.
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Yeah, in tandem would have been nice, or a hand off I guess. Even though MOM kinda shat on that show in some ways.
fac said:
Iron Heart should have been on within 6 weeks of Wakanda Forever. Quantumania just a month or so after Loki S1 to keep momentum with Kang.
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Yeah, that's all true and probably would have helped a lot.
fac said:
Eternals might have worked better as a series in my opinion, really follow them through time and then get a half-dozen episodes knowing the characters before it falls apart.
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Probably my biggest agree of all the "that should have been a movie/show" arguments.
fac said:
F&WS could have been a movie, and been used to really put a stake in the ground that the MCU was moving on with a new Cap and new characters. But not how it played out...
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Yeah, I could see that being better. Especially if they kept all the Isaiah stuff, US Agent stuff, and truncated but shored up the flagsmashers stuff.
 
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Ru1977 said:
Which is saying something, since both were kneecapped by rewrites done in the editing room, AND F&WS was done during the pandemic I think.
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Wasn't F&WS supposed to be about a global pandemic, Secret Invasion was supposed to be about Russia invading Ukraine, and BNW was supposed to introduce Israeli superhero mutant Sabra? The real world keeps kicking the MCU writers in the nuts.
 
CTV said:
Wasn't F&WS supposed to be about a global pandemic, Secret Invasion was supposed to be about Russia invading Ukraine, and BNW was supposed to introduce Israeli superhero mutant Sabra? The real world keeps kicking the MCU writers in the nuts.
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Exactly, yes! And you know, sometimes, I think Marvel needs to lean into this. Look at something like Andor that appeared prophetic to some. It's okay for art to reflect things that are happening, in fact I would argue it needs to.

Though... I get the Sabra thing.
 
CTV said:
Wasn't F&WS supposed to be about a global pandemic, Secret Invasion was supposed to be about Russia invading Ukraine, and BNW was supposed to introduce Israeli superhero mutant Sabra? The real world keeps kicking the MCU writers in the nuts.
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Yes - for F&WS it totally impacted the motivations of the bad guys, who might not have been so bad as they wanted medicine for refugees who came back after the blip to find their homes/jobs/etc all taken. It also would have made the conflict between Walker and Sam more pronounced if it was clearer that Sam was being sympathetic and Walker could not be.
 
I agree that F&WS could've fit its core plot into a two hour movie, but the reason I love it so much is because it's six hours of unapologetic bormance between two leads who are ten times more fun and charismatic when they have each other than when they don't. It was like a Marvel equivalent of True Detective, give us six or eight episodes of two actors who just make each other better in every scene. Plus we got some time with interesting/weird characters like Zemo. Light on plot, but strong on vibes.

Eternals should be the poster child for "it should've been a TV show." A movie screen was not big enough to hold that story. It needed time to breathe.

And man, someone somewhere saw their career flash before their eyes after adding Sabra to that script.
 
docsilence said:
I agree that F&WS could've fit its core plot into a two hour movie, but the reason I love it so much is because it's six hours of unapologetic bormance between two leads who are ten times more fun and charismatic when they have each other than when they don't. It was like a Marvel equivalent of True Detective, give us six or eight episodes of two actors who just make each other better in every scene. Plus we got some time with interesting/weird characters like Zemo. Light on plot, but strong on vibes.
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Beautifully put. I need to watch it again now.
docsilence said:
Eternals should be the poster child for "it should've been a TV show." A movie screen was not big enough to hold that story. It needed time to breathe.
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Definitely. As long as we get to keep the hard snack sound Everytime Gilgamesh hit a Deviant
docsilence said:
And man, someone somewhere saw their career flash before their eyes after adding Sabra to that script.
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Haw, man no kidding.
 
I just get back from seeing FF too. Was it as good as I hoped? No. It was BETTER! I frikken' LOVED this movie. Probably in my top 5 of all MCU movies. Like CTV mentioned, the chemistry between them was excellent. Every personality is right out of the comics. Fun, fun, fun! I think young kids may not like it because
there's not a lot of clobberin time,
but this is truly an instant classic.
 
I saw FF:FS and I thought it was fine. Definitely self-contained. Loved that it was a period piece. I guess the ‘60s lacked sarcasm and quips, because the dialogue was very tame. I found that the Storms were given a lot of time to shine, but Reed seemed weak, and Ben didn’t get a lot of opportunity to showcase his strength, or angst. But Kirby and Quinn were excellent. I thought Shalla Bal was great too. Anyone riled up over the Surfer being female needs to get over themselves. I think I liked Thunderbolts a lot more. I think this was on par with Superman, which I also thought was fine. Nothing blew me away. Maybe I need second viewings of each. But these films still aren’t leaving me feeling as satisfied as anything from phases 1-3.
 
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