Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

The past Batman, Superman and Spiderman reboots have all resulted in basically new series, not a reboot within a film series with nearly 40 entries. Both IM and Cap each had multiple films in lead roles (a bit more for IM) and while I get it for fans of those characters to want to see more, the MCU doesn't need them at the moment, at least not narratively.

Also, I think we need to be honest that a tremendous amount of the interest and elevation of IM and Cap to a higher tier in terms of name recognition were due to the excellent actor portrayals and story arcs for the characters - but I am not as sure the characters are evergreen enough that the next actor and storyline will work. Neither character has yet shown that they can support 60 or 80 years and multiple TV and film iterations, both animated an live action, like Batman, Superman and Spiderman. I think using that as the benchmark may be overstating the public's interest in them.

They have an out to revisit the MCU Cap with a stories set after he returned to the past to be with Peggy. Downey seems like he is going to be preoccupied with Doom for a bit.
 
fac said:
The past Batman, Superman and Spiderman reboots have all resulted in basically new series, not a reboot within a film series with nearly 40 entries.
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Well sure, but we're never going to have another instance of this. It hasn't been done this way before is kinda marvel studios' way.

Also, Superman sorta is a reboot within a film series because characters from that movie appear on a show that also had cameos from characters from the previous universe including a Cavill silhouette. Ultimately it doesn't really matter if stuff is good.
fac said:
Both IM and Cap each had multiple films in lead roles (a bit more for IM) and while I get it for fans of those characters to want to see more, the MCU doesn't need them at the moment, at least not narratively.
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I don't know if the MCU ever needs anyone narratively since writers can just write anything. But I would think the bigger drive is having access to ALL their characters at the same time for the first time, and having an MCU where anyone can cameo in anyone else's project is too good to pass up just because they already told great stories with some of them.
fac said:
Also, I think we need to be honest that a tremendous amount of the interest and elevation of IM and Cap to a higher tier in terms of name recognition were due to the excellent actor portrayals and story arcs for the characters
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Yeah, definitely. Those actors made people realize that characters are great. But now those characters HAVE been elevated.
fac said:
but I am not as sure the characters are evergreen enough that the next actor and storyline will work.
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Of course not, but like with, say Winter Soldier, the right actor and script are going to make all the difference. As far as being evergreen, I'm not sure either, but I remember in 2008 critics calling the characters marvel studios was making movies for the "C list" heroes. They definitely aren't that anymore, and the legends series definitely considers Cap and Iron Man evergreen at least, I'm assuming due to demand.
fac said:
Neither character has yet shown that they can support 60 or 80 years and multiple TV and film iterations, both animated an live action, like Batman, Superman and Spiderman. I think using that as the benchmark may be overstating the public's interest in them.
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They haven't yet shown, so don't attempt to let them?
fac said:
They have an out to revisit the MCU Cap with a stories set after he returned to the past to be with Peggy.
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They do, but I would be shocked if Evans wants to commit to multiple appearances as Steve again. He's pretty vocal about not wanting to maintain the Cap physique. I imagine one, if he is gonna be in Doomsday or Secret Wars (which is heavily rumored, but still not known as which character), is easier for him that another trilogy or more.
fac said:
Downey seems like he is going to be preoccupied with Doom for a bit.
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Sure, but also not outlandish for him to play both characters.

Either way, I won't be surprised to see new actors in these roles as supporting characters in Secret Wars..and if they're well received, capturing what makes those characters entertaining and lovable, I wouldn't be surprised to see solo movies for them added later on to the slate. And I recognize you and others have no interest in revisiting those characters, 'too soon' if at all, it's also totally natural for Marvel to want to try to bring them back somehow when they remain their most popular screen characters. And from my own fan perspective, yeah I wanna see this on screen:
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I really dig those theories ya'll have presented. I like the idea of the F4 world being one of Doom's idealized worlds, Ru. If that's the case, makes me wonder how/if Doom would feel about Galactus. It's gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out, that's for sure, especially since, depending on who you believe, there still isn't really a finished script, despite them being deep into filming.

I agree, though. I'm good on some of those legacy characters for a bit, especially when they have other heroes that are suitable enough to take their place. Let's see more from other underdeveloped heroes like Shang-Chi, She Hulk, etc. first. I think Reed is more than capable of being the sorta "central" figure like Tony was- maybe not as charismatic, but more than capable of leading teams, explaining things to the audience, etc.

Really happy to see the reviews for Fantastic Four are so good. It kinda feels surreal that it's just a couple days away! I'm heading out to Kansas this week for my mom and I's joint bday celebration, and even my family is excited for this one, which doesn't happen with many Marvel movies.
 
joshsquash729 said:
Let's see more from other underdeveloped heroes like Shang-Chi, She Hulk, etc
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Agreed. Those two, along with what they're building toward with Kamala and Kate Bishop are really what I want them to pick back up. But Shang Chi is definitely in Doomsday, and the others are all rumored for it at least.
joshsquash729 said:
Reed is more than capable of being the sorta "central" figure like Tony was- maybe not as charismatic, but more than capable of leading teams, explaining things to the audience, etc.
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Sure, but I'm not arguing for new versions of Iron Man and Cap to be central figures, in fact I don't want anyone to be. All these characters should have charisma and all that, but the MCU needs to be more than the house Iron Man built, and not just by having one other guy take over the construction.
 
Ru1977 said:
Sure, but I'm not arguing for new versions of Iron Man and Cap to be central figures, in fact I don't want anyone to be. All these characters should have charisma and all that, but the MCU needs to be more than the house Iron Man built, and not just by having one other guy take over the construction.
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Exactly. I'm not saying the new Cap, Thor, Iron Man, the Hulk and the Widow need to have their own solo three picture trilogy or Disney series. But they DO need to be part of this Universe otherwise it's just not Marvel. We have to have an Avengers.

I remember in the mid 90's, shortly after Marvel declared bankruptcy, sales were really bad. So bad that there was talk they were going to cancel all their titles except Spider-Man and the X-Men. I'm glad that didn't happen because that would have royally sucked.

Instead they handed the Fantastic Four and the Avengers characters over to two of the Image guys and we had the Heroes Reborn event. Captain America and the Avengers went to Rob Liefeld and ... that sucked. But at least they weren't canceled.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Bottom line is we need the Avengers in this universe.
 
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SDcomics said:
Instead they handed the Fantastic Four and the Avengers characters over to two of the Image guys and we had the Heroes Reborn event. Captain America and the Avengers went to Rob Liefeld and ... that sucked. But at least they weren't canceled.
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Haw, right. It was a shitty, used band-aid but a band-aid nonetheless!
 
Also.

The total worldwide box office gross for all four Avengers movies is approximately $8.05 billion dollars. There's no way Disney is just going to ignore that. Theater owners won't let them. Not to mention their shareholders.
 
SDcomics said:
Also.

The total worldwide box office gross for all four Avengers movies is approximately $8.05 billion dollars. There's no way Disney is just going to ignore that. Theater owners won't let them. Not to mention their shareholders.
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This is a point I keep almost bringing up but don't really want to. I LOVE Eternals, but the audience didn't show up for it. Some of the audience who did, left the theater wondering why the movie was made. I love Sam but his solo movie wasn't well received. I don't think that is the character or the actors fault. And I don't even think it's entirely racism. There are a lot of factors. BUT, a studio that has been struggling to make the box office it used to is naturally gonna at least consider going back to the well. When Sean Connery was done with Bond movies, they didn't shelve the character. I realize it's not a perfect analogy. When Spiderman was coming to the MCU, there were some who said "just use Garfield", and others said "just do Miles", but Tom Holland has been working out well. (I would still like Miles too though.) it was two years between Garfield and Holland. And I get he's Spider-Man, he's massive and evergreen, but I still believe in the studio that got me to love a talking raccoon and the plucky non team of rejects who figured out how to become Avengers anyway. Hell, the studio that took a 'c list' character like Iron Man and made him the biggest hero for a while. For years people raved about marvels casting always being perfect and amazing, and Feige seems like the rare producer who pays attention to the right lessons.
 
fac said:
Also, I think we need to be honest that a tremendous amount of the interest and elevation of IM and Cap to a higher tier in terms of name recognition were due to the excellent actor portrayals and story arcs for the characters
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Exactly. That character, so much as it exists in Marvel canon, is Spider-Man. I think people would show up for Hulk and Wolverine, too, to a lesser extent.
joshsquash729 said:
Let's see more from other underdeveloped heroes like Shang-Chi, She Hulk, etc.
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Yep. The MCU project was interesting because they didn't have Spidey, Hulk, or Wolverine to play with. They had to establish Cap and Iron Man as true A-list heroes.

I'd much rather see them try to make another A-lister than return to the same well over and over again. As I said before, they haven't really tried with the new crop of heroes.
SDcomics said:
Also.

The total worldwide box office gross for all four Avengers movies is approximately $8.05 billion dollars. There's no way Disney is just going to ignore that. Theater owners won't let them. Not to mention their shareholders.
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If the next two Avengers movies flop, they'll change their minds. We saw it happen with Star Wars.
Ru1977 said:
I love Sam but his solo movie wasn't well received. I don't think that is the character or the actors fault.
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It's not. I mean, I don't find Mackie very charismatic, but he's not the reason the movie has a 42 on Metacritic, a 2.4 on Letterboxd, a 46% on Rotten Tomatoes, and a 5.6 on IMDb.
 
docsilence said:
Yeah, saw it in an empty theater and was like: I know this was not a sad movie, I know what I just watched, but why does my heart hurt so profoundly after watching this movie. The whole "they are worth saving because I love them" idea of how humanity could impact beings of cosmic power really hit home, especially at a time when it felt like maybe we weren't actually worth saving from ourselves. Even things I didn't love (the turn with Ikaris, for example) made sense. It's such a great companion piece to Gillen and Ribic's comic run, where each Eternal is less of a living creature but an idea. Ikaris is an arrow. He flies where you tell him to and knows nothing else.
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Super late reply, sorry. I actually really like Ikaris' turn because like you said, it made so much sense in the context of the story. I love how that fight was directed by Zhao, by the way.

Oh, don't get me started on Gillen and Ribic's run. I wish it was still ongoing (that final death was devastating).

If there's one thing I thought was a missed opportunity in the movie, it's Sersi's portrayal (not the actor, but the characterization). She's one of my favorite characters in the comics and I feel like having her realize her dionysian optics and lust for life and humans had changed because of what happened to Ajak and through Dane would have been a much more layered angle to show in the movie than what we got with her.

Still, Eternals rock and I'll die on that hill.
 
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