Harvinger Studios, Savage Crucible

[fac]

I hate this company's stance. I've quit Mezco and other companies for this reason. And I hate tonight will be seen as a success and a reward for the mindset.

I understand it's hard to gauge the perception of your product when you live and breathe it every day, but before/after Elric felt like a tangible shift to me. If they only had 250 units to sell, they should've known it wouldn't last more than a few minutes.

Artificial scarcity is a bullshit business model, too. It's one of the reasons I quit on Mezco.

I think this is the first time they really have had to face this issue at this scale however.

Its one thing for a few folks to be asking for more army builder lizard guys when they have 3 or 4 lizard guys in stock for months and at other retailers and they can always come out with different variants of those figures.

I don't think they purposely under-produced Elric and they may in fact be surprised it sold as it did, so I don't think they deserve backlash as I don't think it was intentional. I mean, Hasbro rarely goes back into production with the same figure in Legends.

They are like an indie band who promised to never play big arenas - easy to promise until you suddenly have the big hit and people want you to play the big arenas.

 

[JakeEkiss]

I think there's some misunderstanding.

It's not that they sold out, they cannot control that. It's them stating explicitly they wouldn't do reissues because they believe scarcity has value and they see the hobby from the stance of collectors (that is, toys as an investment, because unless you're viewing it as an investment scarcity has no value). That is a choice they're making based on a philosophy I don't agree with.

Now if they do some variant folks can get, great. That'll be good for the customers. However, it will prove that the philosophy they've espoused is about generating hype to guarantee sell outs, as a marketing tactic. And they're allowed to have marketing tactics, I'm just not required to think that's a cool thing. And if they don't do a variant, ok fine, then they're just leaving money on the table to be stubborn. If they'd said nothing more than "this run is almost sold out, and we'll see about a second run/variant once this is gone" I'd have nothing to say.

 

[SalemCrow]

I was on the website around 11pm EST last night and Elric was still available. He's listed as sold out now, but there were some later last night when I was on.

I'm contemplating on if I can swing Brynyar Vaelright right now. It seems like he's still available in some numbers.

 

[adrienveidt]

I think there's some misunderstanding.

It's not that they out, they cannot control that. It's them stating explicitly they wouldn't do reissues because they believe scarcity has value and they see the hobby from the stance of collectors (that is, toys as an investment, because unless you're viewing it as an investment scarcity has no value). That is a choice they're making based on a philosophy I don't agree with. I don't think I'm a cool special boy because I got on a preorder early. I don't think it's fun for people to have to pay 2-5x prices because someone else bought dupes purely to flip them.

Don't go believing that's real; that's just marketing to encourage people buying now instead of waiting. They're not one of these fashion houses making such a ridiculous profit margin they can survive off 3 sales a year to billionaire whore-du-jours. The senior guy I spoke with said, as verbatim I can recall: "if we do another Elric we have to change something up, we can't just reissue the same thing"; which is the exact same mindset of every other toy company in existence. We've been speculating about what other uses the armor could be used for from day one and we all assume most of the armor will appear again elsewhere in the line.

The issue with this figure is both that it's popular enough to put Harvinger on a new plateau that needs new decisions to be made; and that there are 3rd and 4th parties that get vital input into the process to continue. They're not stupid enough to leave $500,000 on the table out of a principle rooted in marketing strategy appropriate for a boutique toy company.

 

[adrienveidt]

Oh, hey; new topic! Do the Harvengers know about Wayne Barlowe and how the universe needs a full line of both his Inferno work and his Expedition work? I'm kinda thinking these HC guys could pull this shit off:

 

[JakeEkiss]

Don't go believing that's real; that's just marketing to encourage people buying now instead of waiting.

Yes. I understand. I'm saying that is crappy. It's just pretending to have a philosophy to ensure sales. That's the part I'm saying I don't like.

"if we do another Elric we have to change something up, we can't just reissue the same thing";

Yes. I said that would be what they might do. I also said that would show that their rationale was, as suspected, purely marketing. Which I said I'm not a fan of. Because I do not value scarcity.

If they are worried about overproducing there is a simple way to avoid that and they already know what it is, it's a pre-order. This is not a hard equation to solve.

 

[fac]

It's them stating explicitly they wouldn't do reissues because they believe scarcity has value and they see the hobby from the stance of collectors (that is, toys as an investment, because unless you're viewing it as an investment scarcity has no value). That is a choice they're making based on a philosophy I don't agree with.

As noted I don't think they have actually faced the prospect of "Can we do another run and sell another 3,000 figures" before either so that was an easy claim to make.

Also, not sure what the licensing agreement is, but if it is: flat rate + percentage per unit, then the Frazetta folks might reasonably ask why don't we make more?

 

[adrienveidt]

Or the fauna of Darwin IV, from the Expedition book. Look at these crazy critters and tell me they wouldn't be fuck-awesome by Harvinger or Beasts of the MesoZoic.

God, a Daggerwrist in both 18th and 12th would be so stupendously stupid-cool, imho.

 

[JakeEkiss]

As noted I don't think they have actually faced the prospect of "Can we do another run and sell another 3,000 figures" before either so that was an easy claim to make.

If these guys had no experience with the toy hobby I'd say they're just talking and don't know. But that's clearly not who they are. They collect figures and know these marketing practices and how they're used.

Again, if they'd simply said "this run is nearly out, we'll see about a variant or rerelease" and then said nothing else, I wouldn't have an opinion other than "ok, wait and see then". They said, specifically, we won't do that because we think this sort of situation in collecting is a valuable thing.

I disagree.

It's not stopping me from buying their stuff. It does not cross some moral event horizon where they become terrible people. It's just a bad take and I think it generates more combative interactions with fans.

 

[FuzzyBlueDemon]

Yes. I understand. I'm saying that is crappy. It's just pretending to have a philosophy to ensure sales. That's the part I'm saying I don't like.

Yes. I said that would be what they might do. I also said that would show that their rationale was, as suspected, purely marketing. Which I said I'm not a fan of. Because I do not value scarcity.

If they are worried about overproducing there is a simple way to avoid that and they already know what it is, it's a pre-order. This is not a hard equation to solve.

But they already had a pre-order. It's not artificial scarcity, because they would've made as many as people ordered, plus some for cons & this sale. They had to decide what to make based on sales numbers they already had. That production, based on a guess of what they could sell, would run out. Which leads to scarcity. It's fine to say you don't like speculative collectors. I understand that, I open & display my stuff. BUT if you over produce, then the portion of collectors that does but toys to keep sealed & hope it becomes valuable goes away. And to the business making the product, that is a net loss. It really does benefit everybody involved on the business side for customers to feel like they had better get their order in our they might miss out. Because if you have enough stock on hand for everybody to get their stuff whenever they get around to it, then you have money tied up in unsold products. Which keeps you from making more & you can drown in too much of it.

 

[adrienveidt]

They said, specifically, we won't do that because we think this sort of situation in collecting is a valuable thing.

Don't take that seriously. It's literally just corpo-speak for 'we don't have the funds to risk a second run rotting in the warehouse and it's better for us to leave these small piles of extra income on the table as we've got a good steady stream already'. Unless they said that in the last 24hrs with the new status quo of this unique character it's old news from the little village none of us live in any more.

I mean, all the people for whom this Elric figure is the first hearing of 'Harvinger Studios'; do you think Harvinger wants them to simply go away now and forever more simply because they ran out of the stock of a character they ordered the pvc for 18mos ago?

Y'all... y'all; it's a whole new undiscovered country for them *and* Moorcock/Whelan/their Agents. Give them a day or two to take in the view and appreciate the new bigger scale of things and they'll most likely get back to us with a new decision.

 

[JakeEkiss]

It's not artificial scarcity, because they would've made as many as people ordered, plus some for cons & this sale. They had to decide what to make based on sales numbers they already had. That production, based on a guess of what they could sell, would run out. Which leads to scarcity.

Ok, you're just not reading what I'm saying. I understand how limited production runs work. I have produced my own goods. I have literally done it.

What I did not do, and this is the specific thing I'm talking about not liking, is tell people who wanted more I wouldn't ever do it again because I think them having to chase it down is a good part of the hobby.

Don't take that seriously.

I'm not. I don't think they're sincere. It's the insincerity I don't enjoy. If they are sincere, then it's just a bad take. I am annoyed because they could just be honest and say "if we have enough interest for more runs when this is out we'll do it with a min threshold pre-order for this or a variant" and be done with it. Because that's the truth. The only reason to lie is to play on people's FOMO.

 

[Poe Ghostal]

Or the fauna of Darwin IV, from the Expedition book. Look at these crazy critters and tell me they wouldn't be fuck-awesome by Harvinger or Beasts of the MesoZoic.

God, a Daggerwrist in both 18th and 12th would be so stupendously stupid-cool, imho.

I just want Nacelle to actually put their Power Lords stuff out.

 

[JakeEkiss]

Oh, hey; new topic! Do the Harvengers know about Wayne Barlowe and how the universe needs a full line of both his Inferno work and his Expedition work? I'm kinda thinking these HC guys could pull this shit off:

Barlowe's stuff would be very interesting in figure form. I'm not sure it would all translate well, but I would be interested in seeing someone take a crack at it. Not sure it's quite SC's speed though. I feel like they'd get more mileage out of going for Brom next.

 

[JakeEkiss]

Just saying...

Hell another version of Elric, why not?