General Marvel Legends

Lucid Silverback said:
I just ran a few detailed searches through google and according to our AI overlords, Mandarin had 2 origin stories? In the original, his father was a wealthy descendant of Genghis Kahn and his mother was from English nobility. In the later retcon, the Mandarin claimed his mother was an opium-addicted prostitute but he was likely fabricating that story?
Here's one of the search results...

"The original comic book origin of the Mandarin describes his mother as an English noblewoman and his father as a wealthy Chinese man descended from Genghis Khan. A later, short-lived retcon in the Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. comics suggested that his mother was a prostitute, and he killed her pimp after discovering she was dead. This origin was not widely adopted and is not the current or widely known version. The Marvel Cinematic Universe retcon in Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings establishes the "Mandarin" as an alias for a character named Xu Wenwu."
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It's not less racist I don't think, but of the two I do prefer the origin that makes him basically the bad guy from the Alec Baldwin The Shadow movie.

"You, sir, are a barbarian."
 
yojoebro82 said:
I honestly don't know what offensive Mandarin looks like. I have very little attachment to the character. I recall him with a green face in the IM cartoon. I know his Toybiz ML had a big rubber robe that told articulation to f-off and die. I've read very little comics with him in it. What's offensive about him?
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Well, let me see if I can take a crack at this without inadvertently offending anyone (I hope).

Back in the 19th and 20th centuries there was a cultural phenomenon that was fairly prevalent in the Western World called "The Yellow Peril". Basically, Caucasian people living in the west saw Asian countries in the east as an existential threat to their culture and their way of life, particularly Japan and China. There were some white folks who honestly saw Asians as evil warlords hell bent on conquering the west, doing away with western culture and values and replacing it with their own. It was racism pure and simple, and like all racist beliefs, it had it's roots in fear and stupidity. You can read more about the Yellow Peril here if you're so inclined.

There are many examples of Yellow Peril tropes in early 20th century literature, cinema, radio and comics. In 1912 an English author named Sax Rohmer created a character called Dr. Fu Manchu who has become something of a literary icon. He's also the perfect sterotype of the evil, cruel, ancient Chinese genius hellbent on destroying western civilization.

Here's what the doctor looked like in the comics:

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FYI, Marvel licensed the rights to Fu Manchu from the Rohmer estate for a short time back in the early 70's. Fu Manchu is the father of Shang Chi, Master of Kung Fu.

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Now, you can see from those two images that Fu has pointy ears, perfectly arched eyebrows (Mr. Spock!), long gnarled fingers and long, sharp, pointy fingernails. And that mustache. To this day, that's called a "Fu Manchu moustache." No joke. Google it. That mustache has become a symbol of yellow peril racial stereotyping.

Well, I've been to China and I've been to Japan. The people there were great. They were friendly and really loved westerners. I ceratinly don't recall seeing claws for fingernails and pointy ears. Those kind of depictions are just plain wrong.

And that brings us to ... the Mandarin.

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The Mandarin first appeared in Tales of Suspense #50 (Feb. 1964). He was created by writer Stan Lee and artist Don Heck. Heck has gone on record as saying that Stan wanted a character like Fu Manchu. And there he is. And why not? It was 1964. It was a different day and age. Fu Manchu sold a LOT of books and movie tickets. And a character that was steeped in ancient Chinese mysticism seemed like a perfect foil for a modern military industrialist like Tony Stark.

See, I KNOW that the Mandarin is a problematic character. I get that. Hasbro is between a rock and a hard place here.

Now, if they made a classic Mandarin, would I buy it? Of course. And if they don't, that's okay too. It's money saved. Either way it's fine.

I learned a very valuable lesson from the great Mattel/DC debacle of 2011. The lesson learned is this: THEY'RE JUST TOYS. THEY'RE NOT WORTH GETTING UPSET OVER. There are people who I thought were my friends who still won't talk to me to this day because of the vitrol over the way that line ended. They see me at comic con, glare at me for a few seconds and keep right on walking. Still pissed after 14 years. That's not healthy. I'm not doing that.

Was I disappointed when the business suit Mandarin was announced? Sure. But then I went into my toy room and looked around at all the good things I've gotten out of this line over the years. It eases the sting. It's better to see the glass as half full and that's really what it is. We're not going to get everything. We have to be grateful for what we have.

Anyway, I hope that helps answer your question.
 
SDcomics said:
I learned a very valuable lesson from the great Mattel/DC debacle of 2011. The lesson learned is this: THEY'RE JUST TOYS. THEY'RE NOT WORTH GETTING UPSET OVER. There are people who I thought were my friends who still won't talk to me to this day because of the vitrol over the way that line ended. They see me at comic con, glare at me for a few seconds and keep right on walking. Still pissed after 14 years. That's not healthy. I'm not doing that.
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Sadly, I still remember that from our time on Critical Mass. That was definitely one of our low points as an online community as a whole.
 
Xavion2025 said:
Sadly, I still remember that from our time on Critical Mass. That was definitely one of our low points as an online community as a whole.
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Yes sir. I do not get involved in online brouhaha's anymore. If someone takes a shot at me, I just put them on ignore or I get up, shut the computer off and walk away. I'm not getting involved in anymore two month long flame wars. It's not good for the soul.
 
So, how is it Jesse Falcon can sucker punch punch my boy, @PantherCult in the gut claiming M'Baku is horribly racist and will never be made but yet, ...wasn't it Jesse Falcon who oversaw production of the original Toybiz robed Mandarin complete with yellow skin, long fingernails, pointy ears, and Fu-Manchu mustache?

Methinks we found the racist.
 
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...It was 20 years ago and things got reeeeeeal fuckin interesting the last 5. In 2006, I don't believe a single person batted a lash at ol Faceoff Mandarin.
 
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