General Marvel Legends

The sheer volume of releases from Legends every year means that everyone has a chance at getting their favorite non A-lister. Certainly, a better chance than when they were releasing maybe 30 figures a year under Toy Biz, so spots were way more coveted. That is definitely why you saw people losing their shit over X-23 (who was pretty new at the time) before we got some other more classic characters. I remember thinking that releases like X-23 signified Toy Biz wanting to really dive in with the line and release more modern characters - which really excited me in 2005 because I wanted modern Astonishing X-Men and New Avengers looks.

I have no problem with the character selection in the line, the deep cuts and commitment to fleshing out the Marvel Universe is great. It's also awesome that we have so many options of looks for the A-listers. My only real annoyance is when Hasbro goes "hey look at this nice shiny new body we just developed for Punisher, Daredevil, Spider-Man - and the new pinless parts for Classic Captain America and Iron Man..." but we have no idea when those great new bodies will be used for the classic comic version of that character. But probably in a multipack.

That first retro card wave had the right idea for an evergreen wave of A-list characters - the body choices at the time where all mostly whiffs. Dark Days Hasbro Iron Man, Cap with painted on scale armor. Pizza Spidey when the love-in for that body was already dwindling, a very basic female body for Black Widow... Wolverine and Punisher were OK for the time. Imagine that wave now - War Journal Punisher in classic colors, Secret Wars pinless Cap and Iron Man in classic comic deco, AF15 classic red/blue Spider-Man, Secret Wars Daredevil in comic coloring (because we already got the perfect Widow), X-Men 97 Wolverine with a dark brown deco and comic style head... an incredible wave that people only interested in deeps cuts can ignore because there is no BAF. Except, it seems like an impossible dream based on Hasbro is doing releases now compared to when that first retro card wave came out.
 
Marvel is so huge and been around for so long that it will never get to everything. I'm not even sure it will ever get to even half of everything given all of the different looks characters have had over the years. I do think it would be cool if Hasbro prioritized getting some of those original Kirby designs out there for the core characters. That would certainly put the "Legend" Marvel Legends. I have my nits to pick with Legends, but one will never be character selection and scope. Just look at our top 10 character list here - most of them are pretty damn obscure and are characters I would have never had cross my mind if I didn't frequent here. That's pretty incredible.
 
secondwhiteline said:
It's even funnier years later now that X-23 is an established and perennially popular character. Sometimes you wonder if comic book fans have read comic books before. "A teen girl version of Wolverine that baby lesbians can fanfic about? It will never catch on."
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It's well established in many comic discussion groups that people offramp at specific eras and never look back. Then shade the next group of fans. Repeat.

My favourite is when people complain about an X-23 or a 90s book and are suddenly hit with the Wrong Holy Grail as they realize the run they loved and want represented was before I was born, not five years ago.
 
Alt said:
It's well established in many comic discussion groups that people offramp at specific eras and never look back. Then shade the next group of fans. Repeat.

My favourite is when people complain about an X-23 or a 90s book and are suddenly hit with the Wrong Holy Grail as they realize the run they loved and want represented was before I was born, not five years ago.
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This just makes me realize that I seem to be in a sweet spot for Marvel fandom that probably aligns with a large number of people *around* my age - and also aligns with the tremendous peaks in Marvel popularity. Born in the 80s, so I have an appreciation for that era of comics. The 90s were a massive boom for X-Men with the cartoon and X-Men 1. I feel like comics reached some pretty high popularity again around 2005 with the New Avengers and Astonishing X-Men... House of M, Civil War and a few events after that were pretty exciting. And for that reason, I have felt very lucky to build out my favorite teams and character looks several times over. Couldn't possibly be disappointed when fans of other eras get their time in the sun, because honestly I've gotten a lot of figures based on my favorite comic stories and cartoons.
 
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I just woke up a few minutes ago (This retirement stuff is great) and I'm trying to get caught up. Here's a little background information you may find interesting.

Marvel Legends was created and conceived as a fill in line for Spider-Man Classics. True story. I got all this directly from Jesse Falcon, Damon Nee and Alan Fine at comic con. Toybiz had an unexpected hit with Spider-Man Classics, a line that fans and retailers couldn't get enough of. Fans loved that scale and style. But then ... Sony and Sam Raimi made a Spider-Man movie that was expected to do quite well. Toys based on the film were a given, but ToyBiz didn't want the movie and classic lines to cannibalize sales from each other. So the decision was made to put Classics on hold during Spidey movie years. But Toybiz didn;t want to lose precious retail shelf space so they came up with a replacement line: Ta Da! Marvel Legends was born. Like Spider-Man Classics, Legends would be six inch scale, highly articulated figures that would come packed with a wall mountable display base and a comic book in a clam shell package. It would feature Marvel's most popular characters in their most iconic looks. As Alan said, hey we're a comic book publisher. It would be nice to have one line dedicated to the comics. Not movies, not cartoons, not video games, the COMICS. Legends was only supposed to come out during years there was a new Spidey movie. The rest of the time it would be Spider-Man Classics.

The first assortment was supposed to be Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk and Dr. Doom. Doom did not get tooled in time so they used the Toad as a replacement. They had that sculpt laying around from an X-Men line that got canceled. X-Men Evolutions, I think. No matter, Doom joined the party in the 2nd wave.

NO ONE thought this line was going to last. Not Marvel, not the retailers and not the fans. A comic book only line with no media to tie it into? Walmart was not board with the first two waves and there's 40 percent of your sales right there. I really thought we'd be lucky to get four waves. Five would be pushing it. As a big Avengers guy, I was hoping for Cap, Iron Man, Thor and maybe Hawkeye and the Vision. Wanda would have been a dream but I didn't see the line lasting that long. I remember Jesse saying in an interview with ToyFare magazine that he didn't think we'd get Reed and Sue. We'd have to settle for the Fantastic Two.

Well, we all know what happened, don't we? Legends was a huge hit that caught everyone by surprise. Walmart got on the bandwagon with the 3rd wave. I remember finding a Thor at Gamestop. We git Reed and Sue. We got Hawkeye, the Vision, the Falcon ...

AND THEN ... Hasbro got the Marvel license. And then Marvel got into the movie business. And then Mattel created DC Universe Classics at Walmart's suggestion. And then and then and then and then ...

And here we are, 25 years later, and my Avengers shelf? It now has Starfox, Quasar, Monica Rambeau, Jocasta, the Safari Jacket Wonder Man, the Black Knight and lots of others. I couldn't be happier.

It's funny how things work out, isn't it? ;)
 
Alt said:
It's well established in many comic discussion groups that people offramp at specific eras and never look back.
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True - and its why Legends - by focusing waves on character groupings instead of timeframe groupings - has probably misunderstood its customer base a little. A Spidey or X-Men wave that has looks from the 1960's, 1990's, and 2020's has variety but collectors may only care about their era.

I agree that the scope of Marvel both in terms of characters and eras makes it impossible for all releases to matter every collector, but I think the somewhat random pattern is what causes much of the frustration and complaints over character selection. This is why the team building comments got so loud - if you give me New Mutant characters in looks spread out over 40 years, you may have hit the characters but you haven't done a team that satisfies virtually anyone - the current readers or the ones who haven't read since the book became X-Force.

Maybe they have market research and sales figures that suggests otherwise, but things like the Age of Apocalypse waves seemed to make a lot of sense to me. Instant collection, instant shelf, for a particular era and character strand. It just seems obvious it would work - give me a wave or two with Simonson Thor main cast, then 5 years later revisit with Copiel, or something like that. Due Astonishing X-Men for a year then jump to House of X next year, then back to Neal Adams X-Men, then due X-Factor, etc.

The haphazardness gives us Black Bolt and Medusa two or three times before we got Crystal and the rest of the team. You have a wave or sets of multipacks staring you in the face. They do it for things that are more obscure like Squadron Supreme, but leave X-Factor have complete for years.

I just don't get the logic - which doesn't mean they are wrong, but I wish I understood it better. I think they themselves get overwhelmed or maybe forget about characters they planned to get to, it seems so obvious to balance eras and associated characters and have your Spidey, Avengers, X-Men plus some supplemental waves, and rotate them so that if Spidey is 2020's then Avengers in 1980's and X-Men is 2000's one year than a different balance next.
 
For sure... for most fans the golden age of comics - the looks, stories, etc - is whenever they first settled into their fandom. For me thats the late 70's and early to mid 80's. But I rediscovered my love comics in the early 90's and kept going until 2010. I dabble and re-enter every now and again, so I have an appreciation for more modern takes but the true sweet spot for me is those early 80's looks.

But for people slightly younger than me where the mid to late 90's is where they came in and nothing beats that era and that is where they want the nostalgia picks to come from.

But I rarely begrudge a modern character being included...its healthy for the line. I do sometimes get irritated when a more modern look is chosen for a character I'm not confident will get released again - stares in Namorita's direction. But for the most part Legends has treated me pretty well.
 
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PantherCult said:
Marvel Legends has shown us very clearly what it is and what its likely to continue to be and expecting a pivot or change to something else more in tune with your individual prferences is, more likely than not, a recipe for disappointment.
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A relevant addition to this is that the DC line -absolutely- is taking its lessons from how ML has done things. ML found a recipe for incredible longevity in the toy space. There isn't a single person at Mattel that didn't think 'okay, let's do that too.' If you don't like how Hasbro handles Marvel, you probably won't like how Mattel handles DC.


SDcomics said:
I couldn't be happier with my Warbow.
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Knew it!
 
Enforcer said:
This just makes me realize that I seem to be in a sweet spot for Marvel fandom that probably aligns with a large number of people *around* my age - and also aligns with the tremendous peaks in Marvel popularity. Born in the 80s, so I have an appreciation for that era of comics. The 90s were a massive boom for X-Men with the cartoon and X-Men 1. I feel like comics reached some pretty high popularity again around 2005 with the New Avengers and Astonishing X-Men... House of M, Civil War and a few events after that were pretty exciting. And for that reason, I have felt very lucky to build out my favorite teams and character looks several times over. Couldn't possibly be disappointed when fans of other eras get their time in the sun, because honestly I've gotten a lot of figures based on my favorite comic stories and cartoons.
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This lines up with my timeline and I also like most of those books.

But where I differ even from some of my friends is I don't consider these like holy texts. Some of them I don't even consider great. But I enjoy them the same way I'm going to down the large double butter layer popcorn when I watch a trash movie. I like art. I like the characters. I think a lot of storytelling and comics outside of Marvel and DC rivals a lot of the proper literature these days. And I also criticize what I love.

And yeah, I do think it's cool that you can build out all those things even if I'm not buying it all. I like that you can. What a time to be a nerd. We need to appreciate it especially * waves arms at everything*
 
I guess I feel like I'm out of step with most fans being described, because I wasn't reading comics much as a kid (no comic stores near me, and TPBs in regular bookstores weren't as common a thing yet; I was reading Calvin & Hobbes, Peanuts, and Fox Trot collections instead), and I on-ramped when I got to college because I was in an area with actual comic stores. And it was a pretty lousy era to be jumping in, the mid-2000s. I discovered the value of indie comics, the self-published scene, and bin diving pretty quickly. I don't have a Golden Age, but I also don't feel like I've had an off-ramp. I look for series that might interest me and find creators doing work I can respect, and there's almost always something happening out there for me, and also there's always something older I'm getting around to for the first time. But I don't have a perfect Avengers or Justice League lineup and I find linewide continuity pretty tiresome. My figure displays are chaos and that's how I like it.

fac said:
True - and its why Legends - by focusing waves on character groupings instead of timeframe groupings - has probably misunderstood its customer base a little. A Spidey or X-Men wave that has looks from the 1960's, 1990's, and 2020's has variety but collectors may only care about their era.
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But crucially, that means that you're servicing everybody. If you release an X-wave that's all 90s, you've lost everyone who's not all 90s for that wave. You limit risk by providing something for everyone. You can't let people get out of the habit and you can't make them feel like nothing in a wave's for them.
 
Alt said:
But where I differ even from some of my friends is I don't consider these like holy texts. Some of them I don't even consider great. But I enjoy them the same way I'm going to down the large double butter layer popcorn when I watch a trash movie. I like art. I like the characters. I think a lot of storytelling and comics outside of Marvel and DC rivals a lot of the proper literature these days. And I also criticize what I love.
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Yes and also:

What makes a great comic book story/arc/etc and what makes great action figures aren’t necessarily the same thing. Like my favorite comic of all time is Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth. Do I want action figures specifically from that book? Bruh I wouldn’t even know *how* to suggest those be done. Conversely, I think a lot of 90s/2000s Marvel Comics stories are hot trash. Do I want action figures specifically from that era? Oh hell yes I do because even if “armored Daredevil” wasn’t in the best DD stories, that suit makes an awesome toy. No-nose feral Wolverine? Ugh, the WORST. And I can’t wait to get a Marvel Legend of that weird shit, because that toy will probably rock.
 
Damien said:
...I still can't hear "Marvel Legends" said out loud without a tiny voice screeching 'X-23 is not a LEGEND!'
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HA!! I'm not sure if you're aware but, that voice you're hearing ...is actually MINE! Admittedly, that was one of my many 'constructive' contributions to the discourse back in the day when X-23 was originally released. Not only did I have no idea who she was or why she was included in a line branded as "Legends", but I was incensed I had to purchase her to get the Apocalypse torso and head. Looking back, I realize I absolutely leaned into the gripe a bit too hard, but my attitude has definitely evolved since then. I now welcome virtually any character be included in the line because everybody deserves their favorite character being granted the honor of becoming a Legend. However, I still detest un-themed hodgepodge BaF waves.

Sigh. I miss the good ol' days shitposting on the Fwoosh and having unhinged lunatics outright threaten me on the board and in unsolicited private messages. Good times.
 
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