Four Horsemen Studios Mythic Legions

[Poe Ghostal]

Don't rule yourself out. I was an art major for a reason and though I *occassionally* do a voice here and there, that is at most 5% of the total stuff I'm doing at a table when I run. Despite that, I still have a waiting list for my games and am the primary DM for most of the people I play with (@docsilence's game notwithstanding). You can be a great DM without either of those talents. Enthusiasm, a sense of fairness and drama, and a feel for your players will take you as far or farther than any system wizardry or acting chops.

At the very least, give it a try for a few sessions. If you don't dig it, absolutely don't torture yourself, but trust that great DMs come in all flavors.

I really, truly believe it's because many people, especially folks getting into the hobby in the last 8 years, come in on D&D and it is just not a fun system to learn. Spell slots and spell levels are counter-intuitive. There are traps in character building where you can make mechanically terrible characters without realizing it, and even things like your stats are numbers that, most of the time, have no actual bearing ont he game, they're just an index by which you get your bonuses.

And like, learning D&D takes so much effort that folks are just terrified they'll have to do that again. But many games, I dare say most, are easier to learn and more straightforward. Some of it is just people don't like any discomfort at all, so they won't try anything new, but I do think D&D specifically makes the problem worse.

That said, if my group wants to game and they aren't willing to DM, that means I'm driving the car and I'm going to pick the music. I try to pick stuff I think they'll be into, but I'm not spending the rest of my days as a DM only playing D&D. We're gonna branch out just for my entertainment.

What system would you recommend, then? The idea I have for a game is a bit of a homebrew, but essentially a fantasy setting. But assume I'm hardly an expert and with one exception the other players are all newbies.

 

[secondwhiteline]

Hmm. I've been thinking about running a game for some newbies and I am...neither of those things. I don't have a great head for math (particularly probability) or game rules, and even as a player I get self-conscious about roleplaying. So this is probably a terrible idea now that I think of it. Maybe we should just play HeroQuest.

Nah, there are plenty of easier systems to run with if you're worried about mechanics, and most systems don't really require that much math anyway. And you don't have to be a performer! All you really have to do is set up the framework for a story and give your players some guidance on how they can engage with that story.

Like, my rules friend doesn't just do mechanically complex stuff. The other day he was showing me a puzzle he was working on for his players where he set up a chessboard representing a room in a dungeon where every square was numbered and also had a Scrabble letter tile on it. And some of the squares were trapped. So to proceed safely through the room, you had to figure out which squares weren't trapped based on hints in a riddle given before entering the room. Because the thing with RPGs is that you can pretty much just throw out the rules at your convenience and just do a fun thing.

 

[Damien]

Hmm. I've been thinking about running a game for some newbies and I am...neither of those things. I don't have a great head for math (particularly probability) or game rules, and even as a player I get self-conscious about roleplaying. So this is probably a terrible idea now that I think of it. Maybe we should just play HeroQuest.

Like Jake said... don't let us scare you off with the 'only certain people can be DMs' talk. It's still a WIDE net. It's just not -literally everyone-. My big caution will be - if what you REALLY want to be doing is writing a novel, don't be a DM - write a novel. Your players will notice when you're making the game all about you, your setting, and the characters you've made up. And you'll be frustrated because most players can't even remember the NPCs' names or what country their character is from.

 

[JakeEkiss]

What system would you recommend, then? The idea I have for a game is a bit of a homebrew, but essentially a fantasy setting. But assume I'm hardly an expert and with one exception the other players are all newbies.

If you're already familiar with and comfortable with a system, use that. If not, we'd have to talk a bit about what you are interested in within the ttrpg space and what you're intending to homebrew. There are a lot of games out there of varying complexity and styles. D&D is sort of an homage system at this point. Many things in that game are only in 5e because they were in previous editions, not because a designer sat down and said "oh yes, this is the most fun way for this thing to work". There are other systems with a lot more focused identity, even within the broad scope of medieval fantasy (Daggerheart, Draw Steel, Forbidden Lands, etc.)

But like, if you already know D&D pretty well and that feels like your game, by all means use what you know.

 

[Damien]

Sounds like Poe needs to come to the TTRPG thread.

 

[secondwhiteline]

Like Jake said... don't let us scare you off with the 'only certain people can be DMs' talk. It's still a WIDE net. It's just not -literally everyone-. My big caution will be - if what you REALLY want to be doing is writing a novel, don't be a DM - write a novel. Your players will notice when you're making the game all about you, your setting, and the characters you've made up. And you'll be frustrated because most players can't even remember the NPCs' names or what country their character is from.

Yeah, I don't want my post to be taken as an argument that there's some kind of obscure magic in being a great DM. The core skill is paying attention and listening to your players so you understand what they enjoy, and then giving them chances to do stuff they enjoy.

 

[JakeEkiss]

And you'll be frustrated because most players can't even remember the NPCs' names or what country their character is from.

Yeah this is a big one. Your players will often not spend a lot of time learning your lore (some will, but those folks are not common). They'll learn lore that is immediately applicable to their situation somewhat relliably. They'll know the name of their favorite NPC and the villain, but everything else is up for grabs. It's fine so long as *somebody* int he group is keeping track. Typically if you have four new players, they'll each recall about 1/5th of the info you've given them.

 

[secondwhiteline]

I'm reminded of an old DM of the Rings comic, and the discussion that followed.

I’ve always wanted to make a campaign like this:


The Dark Lord Walter, wielder of the Black Sword of choppery, was opressing the peoples of Pittsburgh. Then King George Washington enlisted the help of the Warrior Princess Rapunzel. Sadly, in the Land of Yellowstone she fell under a spell and slew the Steelers, Knights of Pittsburgh. At last the heroes freed the princess, traveled through the kingdom of Barstow, and confronted Walter in the land of Spokane.


Sure, it sounds stupid, but you have to admit: your players will be able to remember, pronounce, and even spell all of the important people and places.

 

[Damien]

Fucking loved DM of the Rings.

 

[fac]

There was a LOT of fizzling out in the '70s to early '80s because it did take some level of deep fascination with the idea and commitment to make it work in order to actually have fun with it and consistently even get to play.

It also was competing with the first home video game systems at that time. And the new ability to watch movies on your schedule with VCRs and VHS rental places. And comic book stores were appearing instead of just the rack at 7-11. The options for home entertainment for kids was booming at that time.

All TTRPGs are so deeply dependent on the group you're with and how you're introduced to it. I know so many people who bounced off it as kids because of the situation they experienced with it.

Yep, and as noted it was a lot less organized and if there were a lot of options other than D&D they hadn't made it to my town.

 

[Mint In Boks]

I promise I’m not gonna break down the numbers everyday, only when something interesting happens (stretch goals reached, half way point, to see if the “projects we love!” email gave them a boost.) but my wife asked me an interesting question last night:

Did this even sell enough “game” to fund without the figures?

The short answer is no: it would only have made $88,359 so far.

The long answer is:
I’m counting everything not figure in this total. So $1 “I like to watch” pledges and the dice only tiers are counted here. I counted every figure bundle level as if the book or beginners box was selling for full price, since without the figures it’s not a bundle is it?! Plus as a games only kickstarter this needed a little number fluffing, it’s incredibly sad if I could each “six figures plus game” as a $20 buy in, so no discount pricing. The only exception being the big All-in at the end and the Paladin+Box bundle which I’m counting as (total price of tier - list cost of figures) because those were supposed to be limited time early bird deals and those usually do come with a special discount.

And I know in DorkLair’s video he says “you just need to add in the unpainted minis to get everything!” and seriously: fuck that, no one’s buying doubles of these minis, but if you really want to fine: toss on $4.4k

“Oh but that’s so close! It’ll definitely fund! People DO want the game!”

Whoa! Sit down, strawman, we’re doing the LONG version of this break down…

Toys are definitely subsidizing the cost of this project, again, you can get the beginner box for as little as $20 in the bundles, so without seven mostly repaint figures with extremely minor new tooling propping up the funding goal, is a “just the books, dice, and minis” campaign still a $90k goal?

And I can calculate how many people bought each tier, what I can’t calculate is how many people still buy these with no toys. The HUGE divid between “All-In” and “All-In with Bonus” shows a lack of shit given about game material when the exclusive Paladin isn’t tied to it.

If I was being honest with calculating how “the game” is doing I would’ve excised dice (buy the dice, Paladin as the only item you buy is $85 not $90 with figure to throw away or $100 with a book you won’t look at. The dice are selling for cheaper add-ons not for gaming.), Still counted the Paladin+Box bundle as $39, and only calculated for 151 All-Ins (the average of 10 Paladin-less sets and 296 true all ins) since Paladin is driving demand for the last tier not book, but I’m nice so I’m counting every book, box, and dice sold as demand for the book.

Another interesting thing is when I did the numbers yesterday the average buy in was $407 a person, despite adding more backers over night within these last 24 hours the average buy in has dropped to $403 per person, not much but again if we assume this matches Advent of Decay’s backer counter it effectively lost $6k over night by not having enough stuff to buy, and since we’re still slogging to the next goal, and the next goal is a dice set, it’s a long road to $1m and the next figure goal…

Also worth noting there are six retailers pledged. The max a retailer can give is $10k (on paper), it’s why some Kickstarters you’ll see suddenly jump over night because Big Bad decided to buy in… so I’m wondering if these six backers just gave the $25 and will buy their stock later, or if they dumped their load early to help unlock stuff… because in that case the average buy in per backer is closer to $370 which, ouch.

FAKE EDIT:
LOL!!!! I went to make sure the $1m goal was a figure and those fuckers stealth updated the stretch goals! Now there are actual game related stretch goals, not good ones (a map of Mythoss, enemy cards, dice bag, standees… no like, second stand alone adventure or anything) in addition to smaller upgrades to try and goose pledges (an Enemy heads pack added to All-in, a face plate added to heads pack) so man, I expected to see some goal shifting but not by day three! I thought this would be some week two shit!