DC Studios Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

Superman was one of my most anticipated movies of the year. After the trailer debuted, I drafted a post in my head that I never bothered to type out here. Now I'm wishing I had it for posterity.

The gist of it was that I have a few complaints with James Gunn. I find him a bit cringe at times. I think his humor occasionally borders on juvenile when he's trying to be subversive or push boundaries. I found that to be the case in Guy Gardner's final action scene. I think he also occasionally bastardizes the characters he's adapting for the screen (looking at you, Drax, Star-Lord, and others). I wouldn't mind so much if their personalities weren't altered in comic continuity as a result.

That said, Gunn has genuine screenwriting chops. He consistently finds real heart in comic book characters, even those as anonymous as Star-Lord, Mantis (sorry, Beamish), or Peacemaker. Hell, he made me care about a fish lady in Creature Commandos. I had confidence that he'd deliver on Superman, a character with more pathos and history than any of the others at his disposal.

My confidence paid off. I loved this movie. It's easily my favorite superhero movie since The Batman. I say it all the time: Superman isn't a power fantasy, he's an altruism fantasy. This was my Superman. He's oafish, optimistic, and a symbol of truth and justice. He'll do everything in his power to save everyone.

I watched Richard Donner's Superman for the first time a few years ago. I expected to love it, but as someone with no ties to it, I found it clumsy and underbaked (I know, I'm sorry!). I haven't seen Superman Returns since I was a wee lad, but IIRC, while it has some good sequences, it's overly long and poorly constructed. My views on Zack Snyder's DC projects are probably better left unsaid. Suffice to say, I think his Batman and Superman are the antithesis of those characters. Gunn's Superman was the bright-eyed take I needed right now.

My relationship with Superman has evolved over the years. As an edgy teen, I found him boring. As I got older, I came to realize that he's aspirational. You may not relate to him like you do Spider-Man, but you can—and probably should—try to emulate him.

With the exception of Batman, I'm not a DC guy. Batman is usually the only DC book I pull. I like Superman and Wonder Woman, but I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of their history, rogues' galleries, or supporting characters. Coming off 30-whatever Marvel movies, it's a weird place to be in. I don't know about Mr. Terrific's T-Spheres or Hawkgirl's personality. I'm much more casual with DC. Morrison's All-Star Superman is my reference point. That's my Superman. Gunn captured its spirit perfectly. That's all I could ask.

On the drive back home with my wife, we talked about getting in bed with another franchise project. We're both wary after being continually let down by the MCU (I've liked four of the 14 released since Endgame). If Gunn's at the helm making projects like Superman, I'll be there. I might be the guy in the audience asking, "Who's that?" when Thanos shows up in the post-credits scene, but I'll be there.
 
With the exception of Batman, I'm not a DC guy. Batman is usually the only DC book I pull. I like Superman and Wonder Woman, but I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of their history, rogues' galleries, or supporting characters.
I was hoping to hear something like this. I have a deep knowledge of DC history (up until about 15 years ago, at least), and would occasionally wonder if some action or character would have any meaning to an average Joe.

Like, I couldn't really tell if having Hawkgirl and Guy Gardner in the movie really added to Superman's story, or was it just universe-building fan service? Did the supporting cast at the Daily Planet build up Clark, or were they just name drops for the people who'd read the comics?

Or
did Metamorpho need more explaining, or were you okay with there being a methuman with element powers who had a mutant son being held hostage until he was able to escape and watch the city's destruction on the TV with his blond baby mama?
Stuff like that.
 
Those are good questions but we do have to go through that every time something like this hits the screen.

I remember watching Thor and at the end of the movie the woman behind me asked who the Bowman was and the guy with her said that was Green Arrow and they could start watching the show if she was interested. I have intervened on conversations at restaurants because I just really can't handle people spreading misinformation when they talk about my special interests. They're going to spread it and then more and more people will not know and then they'll spread it and then...

Anyway. I think it's a testament to James Gunn and his faith in audiences that this movie works. I thought Guardians of the Galaxy was going to be the off-ramp for many people because the talking raccoon and tree surely were too ridiculous. And yet he made that one of the most beloved parts of the MCU. He has a gift for humanizing things, while also embracing the ridiculous spectacle of the medium and making it palatable. He's been able to do that his whole career.

Even as a die hard Marvel person, I don't really care about their cosmic stuff. The infinity gems and the Secret Wars and whatever... Not my thing. Read them. Really don't care. But I enjoy the movies because I enjoy the characters.

It's all World building, but the very beginning of the movie basically asks you to mutually invest in what's about to go down. Same as Star Wars. Terminator. Alien.

To your specific questions, yes, the heroes added or informed, and the Planet was fan service that will probably pay out going forward. And I am okay with how much or little was given. My friends and family who don't even touch this stuff usually are, too.

Yeah we steep in the stuff more than others, but at the end of the day those are the same concerns as kicking off a brand new story. All that matters is that he can execute and that the audience wants to buy in.
 
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UPDATED FRIDAY MIDDAY: Warner Bros/DC StudiosSuperman is looking at a great $55M first day, including all those $22.5M previews. This puts the James Gunn directed movie on course as of this minute for a $115M+ 3-day. The weekend is still young, and there’s room for upside. Some are spotting $120M.

Is the MAGA sentiment hurting this movie? The notion is ‘No’. According to box office stat org EntTelligence, red county theaters average 33% of the weekend box office for PG-13 family adventure movies, while blue counties average 61%. Superman‘s presales through Wednesday saw 60% of its business from blue county theaters, and 34% from red county venues. Meaning, business is right in line for the movie in regards to where it’s suppose to be grossing; there’s no sour sentiment. Also, non-frequent moviegoers don’t make their ticket purchase decisions based on a director and his opinions. EntTelligence is currently seeing 44% percent of the Peter Safran-Gunn production coming from population centers with over a million people (the norm is 44%). That’s a very good sign.
 
Yeah, I don't believe there is any meaningful anti-Superman hype or backlash out there.

Frankly, the more some of these people attack things for reasons a typical person will find silly - even typical people who generally agree with them - I feel it slowly degrades their influence. So let them complain that Superman - who is kind, honest, heroic, saves innocent people while stopping bad guys - is a bad, woke role model. I don't think too many folks will be jumping on that bandwagon and some may even wonder if the bandwagon they are on is off course...
 
I have the feeling the next time we see Lex, he's going to look like this:

Still haven't seen the movie (been pretty lax about spoilers), but I totally thought
he would, just based off the Spin Master multipack. I get how a guy in a suit is fine- and maybe even preferable for screen-accuracy for collectors- but kids want something a bit more toyetic. It's a bit of a bummer, but I suppose they have to leave room for him to go somewhere, and what better to spur him to make the suit than an embarrassing defeat at the hands of Supes? I do hope that this DCU makes Lex more of an overarching villain. I don't need him to be the main villain in multiple movies, but especially as more and more superheroes/metahumans/what have you pop up, they should all at least know who he is.

Those are good questions but we do have to go through that every time something like this hits the screen.

I remember watching Thor and at the end of the movie the woman behind me asked who the Bowman was and the guy with her said that was Green Arrow and they could start watching the show if she was interested. I have intervened on conversations at restaurants because I just really can't handle people spreading misinformation when they talk about my special interests. They're going to spread it and then more and more people will not know and then they'll spread it and then...

Anyway. I think it's a testament to James Gunn and his faith in audiences that this movie works. I thought Guardians of the Galaxy was going to be the off-ramp for many people because the talking raccoon and tree surely were too ridiculous. And yet he made that one of the most beloved parts of the MCU. He has a gift for humanizing things, while also embracing the ridiculous spectacle of the medium and making it palatable. He's been able to do that his whole career.

Even as a die hard Marvel person, I don't really care about their cosmic stuff. The infinity gems and the Secret Wars and whatever... Not my thing. Read them. Really don't care. But I enjoy the movies because I enjoy the characters.

It's all World building, but the very beginning of the movie basically asks you to mutually invest in what's about to go down. Same as Star Wars. Terminator. Alien.

To your specific questions, yes, the heroes added or informed, and the Planet was fan service that will probably pay out going forward. And I am okay with how much or little was given. My friends and family who don't even touch this stuff usually are, too.

Yeah we steep in the stuff more than others, but at the end of the day those are the same concerns as kicking off a brand new story. All that matters is that he can execute and that the audience wants to buy in.

I usually try and mind my own business in those events (though in my head I'll have my secret personal "Um, ackshully" moment.) If they're close enough, I'll usually just leave it; it's only when I overhear something that's way off the mark that I'll try and correct them. Never out of superiority or pompousness, it's because if I love something, then I genuinely want to share it with others, stranger or not.

Regarding the heroes in the movie- I actually like that Gunn is starting in the middle of the action. Not every hero needs an origin story, especially Superman or Batman at this point. Jumping right into the action allows us to get to see who a character truly is at the height of their power, which I like. For lesser known heroes (to the general audience, at least), you can always fill in the blanks later with a movie or show or whatever, but let's let the heroes be heroes! If you connect with one of them and want to do more research, you can, but it's not fully necessary, you know? Especially in a time when media literacy is at an all-time low, encouraging a little audience thinking or research ain't a bad thing!
 
I think he also occasionally bastardizes the characters he's adapting for the screen (looking at you, Drax, Star-Lord, and others). I wouldn't mind so much if their personalities weren't altered in comic continuity as a result.
Unfortunately the huge corporations that run your Big Two comic companies are going to pass the "copy what they are currently doing in our summer blockbuster" mandate on to the comic creators. Leather on the X-Men, organic webbing for Spidey, complete personality overhauls to fit what's on the big screen, nothing is off the table for them to help market the latest movie.
 
I'm seeing a lot of people refer to the movie's comic book-y-ness and I'm personally ready for that after DC spent so much time "grounded in reality" with Nolan, Snyder, and The Batman. Besides, monkeys in a pocket dimension using the internet to influence peoples' thoughts is absolutely EXACTLY what is happening right now in real life. So it's not like it's devoid of realism.

(Sure, Snyder-bots, boycott Superman 2025, sit home and rewatch Man of Steel, and let me know if Pa Kent saying, "No Clark, stay put, watch me die in this tornado." And Clark responding, "Well........OK." gets any better upon rewatch. MONKEYS, I tell you.)
 
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I was hoping to hear something like this. I have a deep knowledge of DC history (up until about 15 years ago, at least), and would occasionally wonder if some action or character would have any meaning to an average Joe.

Like, I couldn't really tell if having Hawkgirl and Guy Gardner in the movie really added to Superman's story, or was it just universe-building fan service? Did the supporting cast at the Daily Planet build up Clark, or were they just name drops for the people who'd read the comics?
I'm a pretty good test case. As a kid, I saw Hawkgirl in one of the old Superfriends cartoons and maybe Justice League or Justice League Unlimited. I'd recognize her character design anywhere, but I couldn't tell you the first thing about her. I know Guy Gardner is a Lantern and kind of a joke character(?). I didn't even know Mr. Terrific's powers.

Superman's cast I know well. I think superhero movies often work best as ensemble pieces. The Raimi Spider-Man movies are a good example. I honestly wish we had gotten more Lois and Jimmy.

The only thing I was really concerned about going in was the size of the cast. I've become anti-shared universes. The first Avengers movie was a highlight of my life, but since then, it seems like we have to shoehorn Ant-Man or a reference to this event/new cast member at the cost of storytelling. Most of my hesitancy comes from poorly executed MCU movies. (I mean, how many times has the MCU introduced a new "familiar face" in a post-credits scene only for them never to be seen again? The MCU's current hero list is already way too long.) Supergirl's inclusion in Superman was one of my only issues with the movie.

Shockingly, I found the Justice Gang's inclusion additive. They provided levity, a sense of scale/stakes, and something to build off of going forward. Best of all, they were clearly side characters and not co-stars (LOOKING AT YOU, IRON MAN IN THE SONY SPIDER-MAN MOVIES). Gunn knew we were there to see Superman, not his jerkoff friends.
Or
did Metamorpho need more explaining, or were you okay with there being a methuman with element powers who had a mutant son being held hostage until he was able to escape and watch the city's destruction on the TV with his blond baby mama?
Stuff like that.
Nope. Totally got it. I know I've seen him before, but I couldn't even have told you his name.

I've probably read him somewhere, but I have a bad habit of ignoring characters if they don't immediately get my attention or interest me. There are so many established characters in Marvel/DC that I worry I'll wind up researching a character with only a few appearances who then disappeared forever.
It's all World building, but the very beginning of the movie basically asks you to mutually invest in what's about to go down. Same as Star Wars. Terminator. Alien.
Yep. Worldbuilding isn't worth the paper it's written on if you don't care about the characters. On the flip side, great storytelling can transform ho-hum characters. Gunn took the Guardians of the Galaxy, a D-list Marvel team, and elevated them to worldwide fame.
 
The movie did make me well up a few times. I think the casting is great, the look is great and what is there is fun.

But this movie starts in Act Two.

This sounds insane but this film needed more Superman and Lex. We only get Clark 2.5 times - he's only in the Daily Planet ONCE! Corenswet is so good that I feel let down of how little I got of him. For a film called Superman, I feel like Krypto had more *memorable* screentime than Superman.

I think my favorite moment might be the battle happening through the window the whole important convo. That's a "daily life" thing the MCU hasn't really done, and the way he just lets them handle it. Fantastic. It did distract a bit from the wonderful acting, and then that scene just ended like "welp, the script says I have to turn myself in now" with no real thought to another course of action. A few beats are like that.

One of the film's big swings missed for me in the Jor-El message - I'm supposed to trust Lex Luthor's rescue and resuscitation of an alien language? Apparently yes? Because "everyone said it's real." HUH? Kinda expected someone at LutherCorp at the end to slip him the unaltered, recovered message - or maybe The Engineer to beam it into his brain to distract him long enough to asphyxiate.

Ultraman was a total letdown (had zero expectations) and that repetitive fight lasted waaayyy too long. That's not the extra Clark I need, and VFX face doubles rarely ever work - it just adds another level of fake to a fake scene.

Mr. Terrific is a character I know nothing about - but what a fun dude. Great introduction of him. Fillion is always a delight, but Hawkgirl needed some more. Her screaming got old - I assume it's part of her power? Have no idea from the film.

But I needed less of the Borovia leader (way, way less) and more of Lex putting all of this into motion. Hoult is fantastic but he was at 110 from jump and I wished we had seen him pushed there. I like this interpretation, I like that they are basically the same age and height, but slow down!!

Jimmy and Lois taking so long to pick up on Eve's plan was kinda ridiculous - and we never got a payoff on her toes! Also, nice to see Beck Bennett! Cat Grant felt very off - but Calista Flockhart will forever be that character to me.

I wish Lois hadn't run away from the farm without even a conversation - we didn't spend enough time at the farm.

And this is just my brain picking up on details, but the black hair dye used for both Supes and Lois reflected like hair dye in most of the lighting set-ups, and especially in the last scene of them, their brunette roots were very visible. She could have been brunette, no problem.

But I guess the black plays into the punk-rock - and I think that bit is also my favorite part. Superman's omnipotent kindness is so counter-cultural right now and I kinda loved that being the point.
 
The more I think about Superman, the more I realize how good most of the movie was. Hoult was the only one that seemed miscast, and I love him as an actor, so that really surprises me. But I think part of it is how Gunn decided to portray him. One part I absolutely hated from the trailer with him, and it was slightly longer in the movie, is when he's walking in Supman's fortress and robot parts and stuff are being destroyed and flying an inch from his face and he doesn't even flinch. That's not even remotely possible for a normal human. Had he flinched or ducked and said to the engineer "Hey! Watch it!!", I'd have loved that. Yeah, it might not have looked "cool", but it would have been funnier and given Lex more personality.
 
One thing that's funny about Metamorpho, for me, is the only time I've ever read him was in Morrison JLA when they were handing off the league reins to the big seven.

I think it was only issue one. And in that short amount of time he came across as a cantankerous, but well-meaning and intelligent experienced character.

When I read Comics I always have voices in my head, and his voice came across like a gruff, but caring chain smoking type. You know, your Ed Asner or JK Simmons type.

In the movie, that personality and voice did not jive with me at all. But I only have one issue of him under my belt, it's not like they were butchering a beloved character in front of me. Just funny to see how opposite that version was.

And regarding Hawk Girl, while shayara was in the cartoon, Kendra is the one I have the most mileage with so I was happy to see her included. And I know they've discussed her controversial backstory in actor interviews, so I'm hoping we get more development in Peacemaker and the future. She's a big get for my DC fandom.
 
Just got back from the movie...It was fine. Lots of stuff I liked, lots of stuff I didn't. A million times better than the last DC movie I saw in theaters, but that was the Flash so it's a low bar

Casting was good. I won't mind seeing any of these characters again.
 
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