Continuing my MCU rewatch

[Schizm]

Ha! It's like the Doctor Who episode where the Moon ended up being an egg and they decide to let it hatch, dooming everyone on Earth. Great concept! But then it just birthed another new moon right in its place the same size. What? Copout.

It's just kinda too comic-booky an idea for a grounded, realistic movie universe. It could have worked if the Celestials had suddenly chosen Earth as the next incubator and the Eternals fought for these people - and not even these people, but the humans who will be victims in 1000 years when it hatches. That also explains where they (haven't) been.

On the other hand, I still like the idea we talked about in the other thread about how the return from the Snap jumpstarted Earth into labor and the Eternals think it's unfair to kill the heroes who just returned half the universe's population to life and so turn on the Celestials. It could almost be basically the same plot minus Deviants and having Ikaris and one or two others be the "villains", doing what they were programmed to do.

I think it also would have been better to at least seed (pun intended) one of these characters before this movie and push this movie further into Phase 4. Sersi could have been worked into an existing property as an anthropologist or whatever worked, or let us start seeing glimpses of Kingo (like his posters in the GOTG Xmas special). Or, during the Five Years Later gap, there were reports of super-powered beings doing some hero-ing in random parts of the world. Hell, Sersi could be a street artist on a mission to bring beauty back into a sad world, using her powers to turn ugly things into something beautiful and engendering hope. Sprite could spin the tales. Or Phastos did some engineering to keep the world's power grids from failing. Something.

 

[Fletch]

It's just kinda too comic-booky an idea for a grounded, realistic movie universe.

I can definitely see it. We've had Surtur destroy a planet, and seen Celestials walking around blasting people, but those were other places. Earth is supposed to be our bastion of recognizability. Something that only deviated from our real world in minor steps like a vibranium meteor striking or space gods visiting 1,000 years ago. Being a space egg fundamentally changes what the Earth is.

But I guess it depends on your level of credulity. I personally don't find it outside what we've already seen in the MCU galaxy at large. The only complaint I really have for it is that Arashem's little video briefing on it shows a planet-sized giant blowing apart the Earth, and the actual birthing came nowhere near that. They gave me a very real visual of what to expect, then failed to deliver that.

how the return from the Snap jumpstarted Earth into labor

It's funny to think that Earth must've been right on the verge of popping when Thanos snapped half the people away, since it started hatching within a year of everyone coming back. And it was how Ajak saw humans react to the Snap that convinced her this planet was worth saving. So if Thanos hadn't come along, Earth would have been destroyed. Thanks, Thanos!!

I'm of two minds in how the Snap could've been incorporated into events here. On the one hand, there's an interesting, integrating option to have the appearance of 2 billion people on the planet lead to a premature hatching. Like a global Braxton-Hicks. So now Tiamut is coming, but they can't predict how stable he'll be. That would change the calculus of who wants to stop it and why, but would also help solve the "why now" conundrum that bugs me so much. On the other, I personally prefer the MCU to move on and stop hinging things on the Blip. Just say the Eternals were quietly helping keep society together in the background after the Snap, and move on to tell your own story.

 

[Fletch]

Eternals re-vamp

I don't have a lot of changes in mind for my version of the Eternals. There's a part of me that doesn't think the movie should've been made at all, though, and I've debated just swapping it out for a new stab at the Inhumans (a secret, super-powered society that I find way more interesting). But I do like the Eternals movie, and figure I could just do some plot tightening.

• In this version, the Eternals are humans that the Celestials upgraded, but wiped their memories and told were from space so they wouldn't have any qualms about a hatching Celestial destroying the planet. Thena's Psychosis/Weary comes from subsurface memories of the family she had beforehand and she's more impacted than others by outliving everyone. Over time, as more and more generations of humans live and die, Thena becomes increasingly suicidal and prone to rages. This solves my "why now" problem.

• Basically, I imagine Ajak doing reoccurring visits to Thena and Gilgamesh to help ease her distress, and over the course of those visits she picks up on all the signs that they're human and had lives before becoming Eternals. She may have known for some time, but now that the Emergence is upon them, she's having second thoughts, and that's what she confides in Ikaris.

• The Deviants aren't creations of the Celstials directly. Rather, they're a "naturally" occurring result of a Celestial taking root in the planet. I don't want to directly call them antibodies resisting the destruction of the planet, because it sounds hokey when you put it like that, but that's kind of the side effect of the baby Celestial "infecting" normal animals that go on to prey on humans. So while the Eternals think they've destroyed all them in the past, it's still possible for more to spontaneously generate, especially now that Tiamut's going to hatch. That's where Kro and his buddies come from, not just trapped in a cave for 7,000 years. In fact, learning that Deviants can still spontaneously generate is one of the clues they use to figure out what's really going on. This can be information Kro reveals after he takes on a more human form during that awesome Amazon battle.

• And you know what? Let's have Karul show up at the end to bonk Sprite on the head with a camera. Honestly, it makes more sense to have Druig taken out of the fight entirely so that Sersi has to handle Tiamut. (It seemed weird at the time that Druig's there but they still went with Plan B.) I don't care if Kingo returns because I like the nuance of him wanting to be loyal to the Celestials but not willing to fight his friends. But we can reveal after the fact that Karul chose to stay behind on the Domo and followed Sersi after the crash.

• I also want to re-pace the final fight so that Kro shows up *after* Phastos restrains Ikaris. Make it more of its own thing rather than a distraction for Thena. Phastos eventually, and reluctantly, releases Ikaris so he can help in the fight (rather than Ikaris just sort of breaking free when he couldn't before). This could be when Kingo shows up to help if I wanted him to (he has no conflict with fighting Deviants). Ikaris races off to stop Sersi, but gets swept up into the uni-mind, not because that's just what happens when Celestials are born, but because Phastos secretly stuck one of the bracelets on him before releasing him.

Ultimately, the story and end-results don't change, I just want an answer to the "why now?" question and to make Kro more of a participant in the plot.

 

[fac]

I missed that you posted your re-vamp.

Eternals re-vamp

I don't have a lot of changes in mind for my version of the Eternals. There's a part of me that doesn't think the movie should've been made at all, though, a

I kind of agree with this. It still seems out of place and unnecessary.

I haven't rewatched it, but did they ever explain why the life needed to be sentient for the Celestial to emerge? Is it using the brainwaves to wake up? Or grow? Like sentient beings are more nutritious?

 

[Fletch]

did they ever explain why the life needed to be sentient for the Celestial to emerge?

Not even a little bit. Just "energy" from sentient minds.

Now that you mention it, it is kind of "wut?" But there's so much info being dumped during Arishem's presentation that it doesn't even register.

 

[Fletch]

Hawkeye

I can't say Clint needed a wrap-up show, but I liked him as a character and this series was really good, so I'm not mad they did it. The real purpose was to introduce another Young Avengers character, and it was pretty successful at that.

1. I tease the Young Avengers a lot about how they're a bunch of young women who each idolize one specific Avenger, but it is really set up well here. Kate gets a little monologue toward the end about how seeing Clint fight aliens with a stick and string taught her she could be brave, and then she spent the rest of her life learning archery, fencing, martial arts and gymnastics. I did have a hard time aligning that life with the sort of scattered person Hailee Steinfeld portrayed her as. It's not a deal breaker, or the *wrong* portrayal, it just doesn't line up for me. I feel like the kind of person who wins multiple national championships isn't the kind of person who gets kicked out of college for knocking down a clocktower. At the same time, getting her shit together is kind of her character arc, so I'm not advocating change.
   
   
2. The 'Rogers' musical is glorious. It's so camp and contrasts sharply with Clint's PTSD and feelings about Natasha. Whoever decided to film the scene in its entirety for the post-credit scene at the end should get a raise. Is it too late for a complete production of 'Rogers' as a Special Presentation on Disney+?
   
   
3. The family dynamics are all so well done. Clints kids are great and I love his interaction with his wife. She's just supportive and helpful, and the only family drama is "will he make it home by Christmas." Vera Farmiga is a great mom too (initially), and I loved seeing how sincere she was with both Kate and Jack. I get Kate's feelings of not wanting her dad replaced, and it was a little heartbreaking to see her finally recognize how happy her mom was with him just before Clint uncovered the evidence that Jack was financing the Tracksuit Mafia. Speaking of Jack, such a perfectly done red herring. We all knew Jack Duquesne as the occasionally traitorous Avenger Swordsman (and has comic history with Hawkeye as an added bonus), and were ready to believe the worst about him. Him being framed and later joining in the fight against the Mafia was such a pleasant twist.
   
   
4. The one-day-per-episode countdown to Christmas is a good ticking clock on the whole series, but I admit it didn't jump out at me as much as I think it could have. I don't think they were shy about it, with frequent conversations with his family about it and basically checking off the nights he was missing at home (gingerbread night and movie night, fer instance). I guess I just wasn't paying attention, because I really enjoy it the most in hindsight. The finale is on Christmas eve with a denouement on Christmas morning.
   
   
5. Laura's old SHIELD watch never lives up to the weight put on it. Like, I get it as a sort of side-McGuffin that they personally didn't want out there, but why were the mafia goons looking for it specifically? The ever-complicating premise kicked off by Kate in the Ronin suit was enough to carry us through to the finale. We didn't need the watch as an early plot device that never really gets paid off. Just have the Ronin suit and sword be the big deals, and the existence of the watch just be a further plot development that shows how Maya is researching Clint's family. I feel like it only existed to quietly confirm that Laura was sort of Mockingbird for some comic readers who were wondering.
   
   
6. I can see how the LARP scene was supposed to be cute, but I don't think they put the right effort into it. Clint just seemed kind of half-assed about it until the end when he says he was glad he did it. I would've like to have seen him start off with minimal effort, but start to get more Hawkeye-y as he made his way toward Grills. You know, whip out a couple martial moves to show these guys what's what. They'd go on to become big parts of the story, but we only have his "glad I did it" to suggest that he actually was.
   
   
7. Speaking of the LARPers, what the actual fuck? Grills is a fireman that steals stuff from house fires? Wendy is a cop who just takes stuff from evidence because Kate asks? There had to have been different ways to have those things happen than to just be criminal civil servants. I don't even know what arrows were in evidence that Wendy needed to get. Seeing them suit up at the end to help with the evacuation was a great payoff, though. Assets indeed.
   
   
8. The Tracksuit Mafia is a complete joke. I guess you need enemies that scale to both Clint and Kate, but it never seemed like they were ever a threat to anybody. I don't even know what crimes they were doing. It's apparently a big deal to Kingpin, and a life that Maya would eventually want out of, but I think they just figured if they put "Mafia" in the name, people would just fill in the blanks themselves. Fortunately Maya herself is an absolute badass. I was so impressed by her in this show. I doubt it's PC to say, but there was something so unsettling about never hearing her voice. Just a dead silent badass kicking ass. I'm glad she got her own spinoff show.
   
   
9. The car chase in Episode 3 and the skate rink showdown in Episode 6 were absolutely perfect. Hawkeye seems to be the butt of a lot of jokes because he uses a bow and arrow, but once they start leaning into the trick arrow aspect, you see the value of having a sniper-accurate, variable-payload shooter. I felt so vindicated in being a Hawkeye fan for all these years.
   
   
10. This may be my favorite Yelena appearance. She's right in her perfect blend of effective killer and joyful youth. It's such a fun interplay. One second I'd be like "there's no way Kate would knock her on her ass" and the next Yelena is complimenting her on such a nice body slam.
    
    
11. I wonder when I started suspecting Kate's mom was a badguy? I don't remember from my first viewing, but this time there was a noticeable shift when Kate tells her she's learned about the shell company, Sloan. In general, even though the series is only 6 episodes long, they did a good job of keeping the plot elements evolving. It never felt rushed but always felt fresh.
    
    
12. Vincent D'onofrio was such a great casting choice for Kingpin. Like, JK Simmons as JJ Jameson level of great. He seems a little more superpowered here than in Daredevil (he straight up rips a car door off its hinges), but I'm okay with that. And he absolutely manhandles Kate as he should. But in the end, her victory over him felt earned. We get a Chekhov's flick into an entire batch of trick arrows that (at least briefly) take him down. I figure it would take an entire quiver of arrows to do it.
    
    
13. Oh, so NOW the Ronin suit is flammable. It'll survive an apartment fire, but you use a home barbecue to destroy it at the end. Now, I'm not saying that Echo *should* have ended up with the suit for a future career in taking down gangsters like the ones who betrayed her father, but I wouldn't be mad if that's how it'd gone.

There weren't any loose ends in Hawkeye's story that *needed* tying up, but his years as Ronin was a good place to find one if you needed it. Kate gets built up as being an effective crime-fighter by both Clint AND Yelena, and wraps it all up by taking down the Kingpin. I'm ready for her to be the next Hawkeye.

And honestly, I'm going to skip a Hawkeye Revamp post on this. Aside from the minor notes above, I think this show does everything right. It closes the book on Clint's time as Hawkeye and effectively sets up his replacement. It even introduced Kingpin into the MCU proper and opened the door for Daredevil and others. I confess, I never watched the Echo show, despite being really impressed with the character here. Maybe something about the time when it came out. If I later decide that I would really liked to have seen Maya take on the Ronin identity, I may retroactively retcon (heh) the fate of the Ronin suit. I don't know, maybe there already is a Ronin suit in that show.

 

[fac]

I agree, I think this is one of the best Disney+ shows of the more straightforward comic book hero stories. Kate and Yelena are gold together,

I liked that Hawkeye remains focused on being a family man (more than any Avenger, you get the sense this is his job, which is OK), and honestly I think it helps make Natasha's sacrifice in Endgame more earned as she presumably had spent many a day at the Barton farm.

I also loved Rogers the musical. I forgot about the LARPers and being reminded of them was not a plus for the show. I think I also probably recognized it was an episode a day but maybe not consciously.

I hope they revisit the SHIELD watch at some point.

My only complaint is that Clint is at Rogers the musical and no one really notices him. I feel like they misses a bit by not having the Avengers be celebrities a bit more.

 

[Fletch]

My only complaint is that Clint is at Rogers the musical and no one really notices him.

I bet the cast even spotlighted him before the show. Maybe by this point the audience had moved on.

There was the dude seeking a selfie with him in the bathroom, and the waiter who gave them free deserts. I feel it was enough to acknowledge it (one positive interaction and one negative) that they didn't have to keep doing it.

There is a scene where he's just standing in front of the Avengers memorial plaque on a busy street and nobody notices. That seemed somehow both unrealistic AND accurate.

 

[Schizm]

I think Rogers was a missed opportunity in not having Clint doing press and walking the red carpet and starting to feel out of his element - he's the only Avenger who showed up. He thought he might see some of his friends, or get some closure, but then it just starts to make him feel alone - and old. Which sets up his arc - he's ready to move past Avenging.

Like Johannson, I think Renner also deserved a movie - and this would have been great as a film. You've got your Prologue with Kate, you've got the Ronin backstory and in a film there's NO REASON to hide "the big guy" - FU Marvel on that *in general* - and you can utilize Yelena more. If Kingpin can't be in the movie due to rights OH NO - the story improves.

I refuse to believe Clint would ever start murdering bad guys on the payroll of another bad guy. Him going all solo vigilante makes sense - why do bad guys continue to exist without consequence when so many good people are gone - but him doing it for someone else makes it dirty and nasty. Kinda absolutely hate that. That's worse than anything Wanda did in WandaVision and she got knocked off the lunchbox.

I thought the Tracksuit guys were fun, and I'm glad we got two of them as toys. Fra Fre I thought did a great job. The Echo of it all feels to me like Riri in Wakanda Forever - not a natural narrative fit.

If the plotline is rejiggered into "everyone wants to kill Clint before Xmas" - okay. I wouldn't have minded a version of that with Laura present (COVID restrictions and Cardellini was filming something else are the reason she's basically there by phone call and then in one fake two-shot). Laura's presence on a mission like that makes Clint miss Nat but also realize he has what he wants now. But if Laura was there, Kate would be a bit extraneous. So maybe not.

I love Kate, hate her blue contacts. Just... why. Steinfeld was great but I agree the character would make more sense to be focused and driven and not scattershot (that would be a good codename).

Two little ending bits I fanfic into existence in my head: We see the Rockefeller tree has been put back into place by spiderwebs. And after we see the full Rogers number, we cut to Yelena reacting. Crying, laughing, loving it, marveling at it - take your pick. "This is Broadway? This is amazing!"

 

[Fletch]

I thought the Tracksuit guys were fun, and I'm glad we got two of them as toys. Fra Fre I thought did a great job.

Yeah, Kazi was great, but the Tracksuits were *too* fun for me. Just made for some really lopsided fights.

I refuse to believe Clint would ever start murdering bad guys on the payroll of another bad guy.

I took it that Kingpin set up Echo's dad and tipped off the Ronin, not that Kingpin hired him directly.

And after we see the full Rogers number, we cut to Yelena reacting.

Hah! That would've been great. This really was my favorite version of her.

 

[fac]

I think Rogers was a missed opportunity in not having Clint doing press and walking the red carpet and starting to feel out of his element - he's the only Avenger who showed up.

I'd have liked this. I consider the lack of the Avengers being idolized more of a missed opportunity after they went so directly at that concept with the FF.

I think Renner also deserved a movie - and this would have been great as a film.

I agree - probably more than any other D+ show, well maybe Moon Knight, this seems like it could have been boiled down to a great film. There is still a chance at a Hawkeye movie though.

And after we see the full Rogers number, we cut to Yelena reacting. Crying, laughing, loving it, marveling at it - take your pick. "This is Broadway? This is amazing!"

Perfect

I took it that Kingpin set up Echo's dad and tipped off the Ronin, not that Kingpin hired him directly.

Yes, I agree - Kingpin manipulated that situation but had not hired Ronin.

 

[Schizm]

That's not how I ever read the Kingpin/Echo/Ronin sitch but I'm in the mood to rewatch this show anyway and I'll try to read it like that. It's *much* better.

No love for Spidey fixing the Christmas tree? We know he was going out for a Christmas swing!

Clint doing the red carpet could have also played into his change of heart - he wanted his kids to see him be cool since this is a safe part of Avenging, but they look uncomfortable, HE is uncomfortable and then it all magnifies from there.

 

[Fletch]

No love for Spidey fixing the Christmas tree? We know he was going out for a Christmas swing!

I often wonder if No Way Home isn't supposed to take place before Hawkeye. But then I remember the destruction of the Statue of Liberty and realize it's easier to fix the tree.

Fun fact: NWH is not in Disney+. I'll be providing a link for my GoFundMe when it's set up so I can rent it.