U.S. Politics

docsilence said:
I wonder how hard someone has to get hit to undo the brainrot. Like my neighbor, he's NEVER going to feel any pain. Worst case scenario if his 401k tanks he sells one of his multiple houses in an expensive Massachusetts city and can use that towards retirement. He has no reason to change his mind unless his daughters have kids and they die of the measles or something, and he's got a golden horse shoe up his ass, no bad luck will fall his way.

My brother was a big Trump/RFK guy in January, to the point that the argument we had over what I knew would happen had us not talking for months. But he works at a university with a huge foreign student body and he's lost all of his overtime for the year, half his colleagues have been laid off, and he's seeing it getting worse next year - all while he was trying to save for and buy a house to raise his daughter in. It took a while, but seeing the possibility of his daughter not getting basic vaccinations while he's lost 30% of his income has finally had him realizing that not all change is good. He still won't admit he was wrong and will couch every statement with "but those guys suck too" but it hit his wallet so hard so fast I think reality caved him.
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I don't know if there really is a set amount. For some people, they just can't comprehend certain evils until it happens to them, but by then it's too late for everyone. Other folks, whether through ignorance, self-preservation, etc., will just double down on their hatred for whoever. They can't or won't admit fault, and since it's easier to just continue blaming the original person rather than admit they were wrong and messed up, they'll just stick with it and go down with the ship. Because at least in that case, it almost proves them right, because they're finally the victim they always claimed they were, so there's a weird sort of vindication in it. Some folks would rather lose everything and everyone in their lives rather than just admit they made a mistake.
 
RunestoneCowboy said:
That's usually what it takes. The leopard has to eat their face or the face of a loved one before they understand why voting for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party was a bad move.
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And then there's the secret 3rd option; you've heard of a "face only a mother could love", but what about the "face not even a leopard would eat"? They'll show up with a perfectly intact face, or one made of plastic, and claim the leopard ate their face too just so they can feel like part of something and benefit from the pity.
 
RunestoneCowboy said:
That's usually what it takes. The leopard has to eat their face or the face of a loved one before they understand why voting for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party was a bad move.
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I was having a conversation about this the other day: a buddy of mine, with good intentions, posted a meme talking about some study where when CEOs have daughters it makes them start changing policies to be less oppressive of women, and the “punchline” was “having daughters creates empathy”.
I gently pushed back on this, gently in the sense that I didn’t want to start a big fight with my buddy. Why did I push back? Because that’s *not* empathy. When you suddenly realize something bad could happen to you, your loved ones, your property, your money, your future, etc, and you start making “helpful” changes, that is NOT empathy, not at all. That is basic self-interest. The key word is “you/your” as in “me/MINE!!”, as in you are just protecting yourself and your own interests, not suddenly growing your heart like the Grinch.
Like I guess I find it useful when MAGAts and other bad guys “come around” when some awful thing finally penetrates their personal bubble, but I will never give anyone credit for that from an “empathy” perspective. It’s just covering your own ass. There is nothing heroic nor admirable about self-interest and I refuse to give folks a pass for it. Frankly, I have *less* respect for people who change their moral/ethical stances under pressure, as it demonstrates they had no strong convictions in the first place.


Bottom line: yes, we have been giving waaaay too many awful people a “pass” for decades. We need to start socially exiling MAGA and making it extremely painful and difficult for them to exist.
 
docsilence said:
Like my neighbor, he's NEVER going to feel any pain. Worst case scenario if his 401k tanks he sells one of his multiple houses in an expensive Massachusetts city and can use that towards retirement. He has no reason to change his mind unless his daughters have kids and they die of the measles or something, and he's got a golden horse shoe up his ass, no bad luck will fall his way.
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If the right-wing dictatorship is semi-permanent, he'll feel it before long. While his wealth and privilege will protect him longer than most, unless he's one of Trump's billionaire cronies, it will hit him eventually.

The decline of the USSR is a good parallel. Food and consumer goods will skyrocket. Housing prices will continue to rise. American innovation will disappear. The smart people will flee the United States in droves, weakening his community. The attack on vaccines will have an immediate effect. Most people will still attempt to vaccinate, but without easy access, we'll fall below herd immunity.

Wall Street, completely divorced from reality, has papered over the decline. Soon, they won't be able to. Deportations will take their toll on the workforce. The labor market will shrink. People won't be able to afford groceries or transportation to work.

Fascism is colonialism turned inward. No one is safe.
 
@AceofKnaves I also assume some of those kind of people (who suddenly give a shit about women when they have a daughter, and definitely will point that out frequently as proof they care about women, not grasping what they're revealing about themselves) actually see their children as property rather than a person to respect and be genuinely interested in. My dad is always my go to for bad things I guess, but it's like with my dad... if it was a way for him to showcase my skill or talent, the way he'd talk and beam you'd think he was an amazingly proud and supportive dad, but anything beyond that... even just basic "how was your day" kinda stuff, no interest. Like he buys all my books and he puts them on the mantle to display, and yes part of me definitely appreciates that, but any time I try to let him know stuff that's going on with his grandchildren, he quickly shifts the subject to the latest with himself etc.

Anyway... what was I saying? Oh, yeah, a lot of people seem to have trouble seeing their children as real, lovable human beings with personalities, interests, concerns, worries, doubts, and news! But rather just property, and thus something to put away and keep safe.
 
Ru1977 said:
actually see their children as property rather than a person to respect and be genuinely interested in.
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Exactly so! It’s the idea of seeing people/places/things as an extension of yourself rather than as separate and distinct things, referred to clinically as “satellites”. It is a key feature of narcissistic behavior, though to be clear one can engage in this behavior without being diagnosable as narcissistic personality disorder.
Obviously, it is very common.
 
May be an image of 2 people and text that says '… Ben Pauker @benpauker 10h BREAKING: Pentagon unveiled a new crackdown on reporters, requiring a pledge not to gather any information- even unclassified that hasn't been expressly authorized. Will revoke press credentials of those who do not obey and sign. By @ScottNover Pentagon Pertgenenarn demandsjournalists demands journalists pledge to not obtain un...'
 
AceofKnaves said:
Exactly so! It’s the idea of seeing people/places/things as an extension of yourself rather than as separate and distinct things, referred to clinically as “satellites”. It is a key feature of narcissistic behavior, though to be clear one can engage in this behavior without being diagnosable as narcissistic personality disorder.
Obviously, it is very common.
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Yes! And I know it can be kinda easy in a way to see kids that way when they're newborns. When I would take my son out on errands with me when he was tiny, I kinda saw him as an extension of myself because we were a little unit moving together. But I was already aware of how people see their kids as property and I think a lot of frustration with a child's behavior can stem from that because they aren't behaving the way you want them to, etc. So I always wanted to see my son for the person he was, which actually came pretty easily because he's always had a personality even before he could verbally express his thoughts and such. And I'm by no means a wonder parent, there are plenty of times when I don't have a moment for one of my kids. I really try, even when I'm writing, to still be available at least. Now they all have phones and texting with them seems to make that easier since they can say what's on their mind any time of the day now, heh. What I really try to concentrate on with them though is just letting them be who they are and encourage the positive things they do, or the funny things etc. My dad always shamed me into not expressing myself around other adults and such.... shit, is that why I'm so shy in groups? Fawk. Anyway, a lot of times at gatherings and such, I end up hanging out with my kids the most anyway just because they're really funny and we play around so much.
 
docsilence said:
. The only people who come out on top in those situations are the people at the top. We elected a break things leadership instead of a good steward and we're going to pay the consequences for the rest of our lives. And the worst part is fully HALF of America won't understand or know why because they either lack the skill to grasp it or lack the fucking interest in the world to look at it.
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And that is Trump's MO. He has the money and privilege and connections to nosedive the plane every time and walk away

And that half of America is also brainwashed from Apprentice, Home Alone 2, and stuffed crust pizza ads to still buy into the What a Character! hand wave, as they assault a father and pull him out of his car for being an immigrant.
 
We have A.I. Charlie Kirk reading scripture to a whole bunch of people... and I didn't look but I assume a lot of them are weeping?

Why not just go all the way and have A.I. JC come along and tell everyone he is back and Trump is Lord? If nothing else, it seems more cunning for A.I. to take over than what Skynet was pulling.
 
Ru1977 said:
We have A.I. Charlie Kirk reading scripture to a whole bunch of people... and I didn't look but I assume a lot of them are weeping?

Why not just go all the way and have A.I. JC come along and tell everyone he is back and Trump is Lord? If nothing else, it seems more cunning for A.I. to take over than what Skynet was pulling.
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The day after he died I put money on them bringing him back somehow and saying Jesus did it. This is so fucking exhausting.

The brainwashing is ASTOUNDING. Imagine if this many people had mourned Holman, or the kids they found hanging from trees last week, the way they are mourning a podcaster who thought empathy was fake? America keeps finding ways to make me INVENT new levels of disgust for other Americans. I really fucked up moving home.
 
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