Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion
- Thread starter Ru1977
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Here is the CONFIRMED (Not a SPOILER, This list has already been CONFIRMED) cast of Avengers Doomsday:
- Chris Hemsworth - Thor
- Vanessa Kirby - Invisible Woman
- Anthony Mackie - Captain America
- Sebastian Stan - Bucky
- Letitia Wright - Black Panther
- Paul Rudd - Ant-Man
- Wyatt Russell - U.S. Agent
- Tenoch Huerta Mejia - Namor
- Ebon Moss-Bachrach - The Thing
- Simu Liu - Shang-Chi
- Florence Pugh - Yelena Belova
- Kelsey Grammer - Beast
- Lewis Pullman - The Sentry
- Danny Ramirez - The Falcon
- Joseph Quinn - Human Torch
- David Harbour - Red Guardian
- Winston Duke - M'Baku
- Hannah John-Kamen - Ghost
- Tom Hiddleston - Loki
- Patrick Stewart - Professor X
- Ian McKellen - Magneto
- Alan Cumming - Nightcrawler
- Rebecca Romijn - Mystique
- James Marsden - Cyclops
- Channing Tatum - Gambit
- Pedro Pascal - Mister Fantastic
- Robert Downey Jr. - Doctor Doom
Chooch555
Kirkland Signature Airbender
50% of those have to be cameos, right? They're bringing back Stephen McFeely as a writer - he worked with the Russos on Infinity War/Endgame - so I'm convinced there'll be a good story.
Fletch
Studious
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I'll defend Brie Larson's acting abilities to the ends of the Earth, but I won't defend her performance in Captain Marvel.
I don't know what combination of actor or director decisions got that performance, but it was just so consistently flat. I think I liked her better in The Marvels, but I haven't seen it in a while and can't give any specifics. I also haven't read a Carol Danvers comic since she gave birth to her son's father, so I don't really have any good takes on what the "right" personality would be.
I don't know what combination of actor or director decisions got that performance, but it was just so consistently flat. I think I liked her better in The Marvels, but I haven't seen it in a while and can't give any specifics. I also haven't read a Carol Danvers comic since she gave birth to her son's father, so I don't really have any good takes on what the "right" personality would be.
So far, there are 27 stars confirmed to be in the movie, and 31 more rumored. If they're all in there, then yes. I have to assume the overwhelming majority will be a very brief cameo. I'm just speculating here, but I believe the focus will be on Doom, the FF, Sam, Steve, Peggy, Namor, Loki, Sentry, Captain Marvel, Photon and Starlord. Everyone else will cameo and MAYBE get two or three lines.
I gotta believe Spidey, Wolverine, Deadpool, Wanda and Vision will be in Secret Wars.
Daredevil? Luke Cage? Jessica Jones? Iron Fist? Punisher? Agents of SHIELD? Ghost Rider? They're probably a no. And man, I forgot about the Eternals. I think even the Eternals forgot about the Eternals.
So yeah. That's a LOT. Of course, the way movies are made these days, most of them probably shot their scenes separately. I doubt if everyone was on set the same day very often, if at all.
Rewatched Fantastic Four now that it's on D+ and have a few thoughts. First - this movie should be hitting theatres now, not home entertainment. It has Halloween and Thanksgiving and snow in it - and a very wintery color palette. Disney did a damaging thing by cramming this into the late summer corridor where it could never stand out. Tron should have gotten that slot.
Long essay incoming!
First Steps is totally fine. It is at times beautiful, and has most of the elements to be good. Except it has no zip - it never really comes alive.
It's designed in all aspects to be a departure from our usual MCU but that decision also robs this film from feeling like a good Marvel movie. Marvel heroes and their slice of the universe usually feel lived-in, for the most part. They exist in the world. The FF, living in their skyscraper, barely interact with anyone but themselves and their one normie employee - no lab assistants, no shuttle crew, just HERBIE (who is probably the element done best in this film). These four are totally elite. Ben is the only one who talks to a regular person (and even that got cut to the bone). When the Avengers had their tower for all of 15 minutes, they at least had a party and let the world in.
This take on Marvel's first family feels extremely DC - gods among men, not men taking on gods. Even their theme song has this offputting, god-like above-you-all vibe.
They want to literally transport the Earth and not one second is spent on anyone *questioning* their plan? Or asking "to where?" Sue talks down a murderous mob with blah-blah-"family" BS? No one fights them on their "give us control of all YOUR power" decree? None of it feels realistic, everything is just so professional, predictable, plot-mechanical and not character-motivated - no zip. There is nothing unexpected in this film. Even the tag is exactly what everyone expected.*
These characters have the illusion of angst, but no threat to them is actually real. What if for even a second we actually believed Reed would give up Franklin? The only hard thing is Ben's skin - everything else these characters face is just a breeze. And the four of them together never get my pulse racing or become a sum bigger than the parts. This movie could have been generated by AI and I bet it would feel 95% the same.
A big part of this is the lack of quips. Some movies/characters did them wrong, and I know people on this particular forum are not fans, but there are so many moments where little bits of incidental dialogue would have helped these people feel real and the characters more like Marvel heroes. Reed and Sue being otherwise focused and not quipping - okay, that's a choice. Johnny's few attempts are weak. Ben's runner of refusing to say his not!tagline could have easily been replaced with actual fun stuff to say.
That's not to say it's bad - it's not. The actors are all giving solid to very good performances. I really bought Sue in the climax. But the whole thing is all just... generically fine. It did the business it deserved to. And I really wish it was better.
Another random thing: the crowd work in this movie is especially bad - I am generally very observant and bad BG doesn't normally pull my focus but almost every shot of crowds in this is distractingly bad. There are so many of them and the people are all dressed noticeably similarly, many faces are repeated in various scenes, very few of them are acting well or believably. The "angry" mob has barely any presence at all, certainly no threat.
*I wanted to bring this up separately but all the lack of antagonism I mentioned? One giant Doom-shaped hole in this film. I didn't care that Doom wasn't going to be in this movie until I realized he could have been the answer to a lot of my issues with this movie. Having RDJr debut here with zero pre-release awareness could have been the unexpected livewire this film needed. And honestly - this film is the one I care about, not the next one. I will care about that one, but this one not working as well as it could is one reason they are throwing the kitchen sink into the next.
Thanks for tuning into my Ted Gilbert Show. Anyone else have updated thoughts after sitting with this movie for awhile?
Long essay incoming!
First Steps is totally fine. It is at times beautiful, and has most of the elements to be good. Except it has no zip - it never really comes alive.
It's designed in all aspects to be a departure from our usual MCU but that decision also robs this film from feeling like a good Marvel movie. Marvel heroes and their slice of the universe usually feel lived-in, for the most part. They exist in the world. The FF, living in their skyscraper, barely interact with anyone but themselves and their one normie employee - no lab assistants, no shuttle crew, just HERBIE (who is probably the element done best in this film). These four are totally elite. Ben is the only one who talks to a regular person (and even that got cut to the bone). When the Avengers had their tower for all of 15 minutes, they at least had a party and let the world in.
This take on Marvel's first family feels extremely DC - gods among men, not men taking on gods. Even their theme song has this offputting, god-like above-you-all vibe.
They want to literally transport the Earth and not one second is spent on anyone *questioning* their plan? Or asking "to where?" Sue talks down a murderous mob with blah-blah-"family" BS? No one fights them on their "give us control of all YOUR power" decree? None of it feels realistic, everything is just so professional, predictable, plot-mechanical and not character-motivated - no zip. There is nothing unexpected in this film. Even the tag is exactly what everyone expected.*
These characters have the illusion of angst, but no threat to them is actually real. What if for even a second we actually believed Reed would give up Franklin? The only hard thing is Ben's skin - everything else these characters face is just a breeze. And the four of them together never get my pulse racing or become a sum bigger than the parts. This movie could have been generated by AI and I bet it would feel 95% the same.
A big part of this is the lack of quips. Some movies/characters did them wrong, and I know people on this particular forum are not fans, but there are so many moments where little bits of incidental dialogue would have helped these people feel real and the characters more like Marvel heroes. Reed and Sue being otherwise focused and not quipping - okay, that's a choice. Johnny's few attempts are weak. Ben's runner of refusing to say his not!tagline could have easily been replaced with actual fun stuff to say.
That's not to say it's bad - it's not. The actors are all giving solid to very good performances. I really bought Sue in the climax. But the whole thing is all just... generically fine. It did the business it deserved to. And I really wish it was better.
Another random thing: the crowd work in this movie is especially bad - I am generally very observant and bad BG doesn't normally pull my focus but almost every shot of crowds in this is distractingly bad. There are so many of them and the people are all dressed noticeably similarly, many faces are repeated in various scenes, very few of them are acting well or believably. The "angry" mob has barely any presence at all, certainly no threat.
*I wanted to bring this up separately but all the lack of antagonism I mentioned? One giant Doom-shaped hole in this film. I didn't care that Doom wasn't going to be in this movie until I realized he could have been the answer to a lot of my issues with this movie. Having RDJr debut here with zero pre-release awareness could have been the unexpected livewire this film needed. And honestly - this film is the one I care about, not the next one. I will care about that one, but this one not working as well as it could is one reason they are throwing the kitchen sink into the next.
Thanks for tuning into my Ted Gilbert Show. Anyone else have updated thoughts after sitting with this movie for awhile?
Chooch555
Kirkland Signature Airbender
That all seems fair. I especially like the take on this being a fall/winter movie. That's spot on. The lack of zip is funny given the first trailer focused on Ben zipping up HERBIE's sauce.
I agree with this, it was missing just a little something...
I have had the feeling that the MCU has been cutting down the more subtle or character driven parts of their films the last few years for some reason, like they want to avoid too much depth or seriousness? Not sure how to explain it, they do the character stuff still but they pull their punches or it is more superficial than it had been, or seem like they are in a rush to get to the next set piece or joke too often. Its honestly odd to me. But see below for another example.
That was weird, that whole plan was insane.
And that was not discussed enough in the film - I get frustrated with films where the choice seems to be "person X dies and everyone else is saved" or "everyone dies along with person X". The SS made a good point about how if Franklin was old enough he would probably make that choice to save humanity. I think we needed more than just Reed to be asking "but what if we have no other choice" as if everyone assumes it is not a real option? Ben and Johnny needed to be more unsure, and I think even Sue needed a moment a doubt and not hate on Reed for thinking it over - it actually could have made their desperation after the teleport Earth plan feel apart seem more real, that Reed steps up with "Not going to happen" energy.
Johnny was not enough of a fun loving 20-something in general I felt.
Fletch
Studious
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Ouch. I thought this movie was beloved and I was just being my old Grumpfish self by finding it a bit mid.
I'm not sure I consciously noticed this, but yes! They do feel isolated and yet somehow beloved. To be honest, that's kind of the vibe of the comics Fantastic Four, but I think in a movie you either need to reach out more or make it a thing to be addressed.
My first complaint about this (and Superman) was that they decided to start their stories years into it. It's not the lack of origin story they puts me off, it's that we're joining these characters in seemingly unearned positions of success and authority.
FF was the most egregious in that because their solution to everything was to use the faith and good will they just suddenly had. Want to teleport the whole Earth? Sure, every human will join in to help. Need to evacuate a city? We'll call on the former enemy who is now our friend from "before."
I'm not sure I consciously noticed this, but yes! They do feel isolated and yet somehow beloved. To be honest, that's kind of the vibe of the comics Fantastic Four, but I think in a movie you either need to reach out more or make it a thing to be addressed.
My first complaint about this (and Superman) was that they decided to start their stories years into it. It's not the lack of origin story they puts me off, it's that we're joining these characters in seemingly unearned positions of success and authority.
FF was the most egregious in that because their solution to everything was to use the faith and good will they just suddenly had. Want to teleport the whole Earth? Sure, every human will join in to help. Need to evacuate a city? We'll call on the former enemy who is now our friend from "before."
But he's their friend from the montage! Didn't you see the montage? The literal made-for-TV montage holds such emotional weight!
I didn't want to rehash that aspect because I critiqued that when the movie came out but I still think it was the wrong choice. This one movie covers eight years of these heroes lives (including the tag). I think that's absurd and robs the audience. I did notice that they pointedly showed us nothing that happened inside the spaceship during their formative incident which means they want to save it for later.
Johnny felt like a sad dude in his 30s, working on his record collection. I don't mind that he figured out the linguistics, but that was another time I was like "isn't there a better way for this movie to be using this character?"
"Pulling their punches" when it comes to the character stuff is a great way to describe it, fac! The sketch is there but they think that's enough. It's not. They are learning all the wrong things from their own mistakes - it's not that audiences weren't liking character stuff - it's that audiences don't like *dumb* character stuff - what happened with Wanda, most of Thor in Thor 4, everything not Sam and Joaquin in BNW. Not including Luis in Ant-Man 3! Frankly, I'd trade more than one action set piece per film for more of all characters interacting. It would help the budget, too.
I didn't want to rehash that aspect because I critiqued that when the movie came out but I still think it was the wrong choice. This one movie covers eight years of these heroes lives (including the tag). I think that's absurd and robs the audience. I did notice that they pointedly showed us nothing that happened inside the spaceship during their formative incident which means they want to save it for later.
Johnny felt like a sad dude in his 30s, working on his record collection. I don't mind that he figured out the linguistics, but that was another time I was like "isn't there a better way for this movie to be using this character?"
"Pulling their punches" when it comes to the character stuff is a great way to describe it, fac! The sketch is there but they think that's enough. It's not. They are learning all the wrong things from their own mistakes - it's not that audiences weren't liking character stuff - it's that audiences don't like *dumb* character stuff - what happened with Wanda, most of Thor in Thor 4, everything not Sam and Joaquin in BNW. Not including Luis in Ant-Man 3! Frankly, I'd trade more than one action set piece per film for more of all characters interacting. It would help the budget, too.
The decision to end the Black Widow film with choosing to connect the narrative dots with her getting the Quinjet instead of the sequence with the kids playing hero exemplifies choosing story over character to me and I feel like they have made similar choices since then.
The more I think about it, the more I feel Thor 4 is the biggest missed opportunity in the entire MCU in terms of potential emotional depth and had such potential to be an interesting look at grief, death, sacrifice and faith.
The more I think about it, the more I feel Thor 4 is the biggest missed opportunity in the entire MCU in terms of potential emotional depth and had such potential to be an interesting look at grief, death, sacrifice and faith.
I think it has been confirmed what I thought coming out of the film - that the opening montage was going to be shorter, the FF were going to be backstage on the talk show and get called to action so the curtain would open on an empty stage (paralleling the end of the film as an ongoing gag), and the threat would have been Red Ghost for a longer sequence - which would have been a great way to showcase the team and their working together in more of a low stakes situation with some banter and humor. Also while showing that while the FF had been up against wacky mad scientists and mis-understood guys like Mole Man, they had not been up against anything like a world ending threat like the Big G.