joshsquash729
Born on the cob
Totally. I do think Captain Marvel could benefit from a Thor-esque redo. I don't mean make her as kooky and slapstick as Taika made Thor, but definitely reworking her a bit to add a bit more charisma, or at least making her like vol. 1 Drax where her comedy comes from the fact that she is so opposite of everyone else and is accidentally humorous. I appreciate their desire to make a female version of the strong, almost archetypal action hero, but I feel like we almost got that in Natasha and/or Wanda, just executed better. There's enough extra stuff with both to keep them from being too flat; neither is particularly humorous, but they have moments of dry humor or levity that seems to be missing from CM. But I do wonder how much of that is tied to her being another almighty powerful being. That's why I'm usually not really a fan of Superman- he's powerful to the point of being a bit boring if not done right. Too much humanity and you don't believe the power, but too much power and you don't believe the humanity.
It really is so difficult to discern what certain groups of people/fans want. It does feel like they do really want to see these characters- Black Widow, Captain Marvel, etc. on screen, but the moment they do anything in character, they throw a hissy fit. The comic characters may be drawn a little more sexy, but they're not (always) one-dimensional sex objects. They're strong and capable and whatnot, but the moment that's translated to screen, some men seem to lose their minds. Too many women in a film and they lose their minds; if a woman even appears to be more capable than a man, they lose their minds.
You're right, fac, I don't know where that thing changed either. The only thing I can really think of is that that was an era where women in films, while gradually getting more capable, were still more often than not the attractive eye candy who maaaybe got a single action moment but didn't seem to overshadow her male counterpart. But the moment that women started doing things in place of men, or becoming a little less sexy and a little more well-rounded as a character, they lost interest. I think you have characters like Rebecca Romijn Mystique who got progressively more powerful (at least for 1 movie), but still maintained her ability to be objectified because she was unnecessarily naked and could be sexy while doing action. Even Natasha's early appearances seemed to be crafted so that her capabilities could be played as both a laugh (haha, she made Tony feel inadequate for a moment and we got a funny little quip about it), but also dressing in a way and striking poses that made for good sexy promo. But the moment her capabilities weren't played for laughs anymore, or she stopped acting in a way that just served the male storyline, or, say, Captain Marvel's costume being so covered up so as to be essentially sexless, they lost interest. Add to that the real life actress calling them out on their own game and making them feel inadequate, and they grew to resent her. Sure, Scarlett has called out the objectification at times, but more subtly so, and she's been around longer, so fans might be willing to cut her a bit more slack. I appreciate her approach too- rolling her eyes and calling out the absurdity of the situation and either begrudgingly playing long or just moving along to the next question. One could argue that's better or worse than Brie's way of doing things, which is to directly call out the situation and comment on how gross and demeaning it is, while also subtly (or not) calling out the person who asked or feels that way and trying to dismantle that line of thinking. Two very different ways to approach the topic.
I do think it more often than not comes down to fragile masculinity. That goes for any man of any age, race, etc. They don't like to feel like they aren't being catered to in some form- if they can't see themselves in the titular hero on screen, then they at least need the eye candy, and if they can't get that, then they feel like they aren't being catered to at all, and they feel left out. But oftentimes it's just fluff; those same crybabies still go see the thing in question, and even if they like it, will tear it apart because then they get the attention they feel they didn't in the film itself. Like a lot of folks today- they somehow don't/can't realize that other folks getting represented doesn't necessarily mean any less representation for them. But everyone wants to feel like they're the ones on top.
Don't know if any of that made sense. It kinda did in my mind.
I think the best thing we can do is to just keep on as we are- women belong in films, and they deserve to be the hero too. There's room within that to play with the idea of sexy vs. capable- sexy women can be capable, and capable women can be sexy, the two aren't mutually exclusive, and are allowed to change and evolve.
It really is so difficult to discern what certain groups of people/fans want. It does feel like they do really want to see these characters- Black Widow, Captain Marvel, etc. on screen, but the moment they do anything in character, they throw a hissy fit. The comic characters may be drawn a little more sexy, but they're not (always) one-dimensional sex objects. They're strong and capable and whatnot, but the moment that's translated to screen, some men seem to lose their minds. Too many women in a film and they lose their minds; if a woman even appears to be more capable than a man, they lose their minds.
You're right, fac, I don't know where that thing changed either. The only thing I can really think of is that that was an era where women in films, while gradually getting more capable, were still more often than not the attractive eye candy who maaaybe got a single action moment but didn't seem to overshadow her male counterpart. But the moment that women started doing things in place of men, or becoming a little less sexy and a little more well-rounded as a character, they lost interest. I think you have characters like Rebecca Romijn Mystique who got progressively more powerful (at least for 1 movie), but still maintained her ability to be objectified because she was unnecessarily naked and could be sexy while doing action. Even Natasha's early appearances seemed to be crafted so that her capabilities could be played as both a laugh (haha, she made Tony feel inadequate for a moment and we got a funny little quip about it), but also dressing in a way and striking poses that made for good sexy promo. But the moment her capabilities weren't played for laughs anymore, or she stopped acting in a way that just served the male storyline, or, say, Captain Marvel's costume being so covered up so as to be essentially sexless, they lost interest. Add to that the real life actress calling them out on their own game and making them feel inadequate, and they grew to resent her. Sure, Scarlett has called out the objectification at times, but more subtly so, and she's been around longer, so fans might be willing to cut her a bit more slack. I appreciate her approach too- rolling her eyes and calling out the absurdity of the situation and either begrudgingly playing long or just moving along to the next question. One could argue that's better or worse than Brie's way of doing things, which is to directly call out the situation and comment on how gross and demeaning it is, while also subtly (or not) calling out the person who asked or feels that way and trying to dismantle that line of thinking. Two very different ways to approach the topic.
I do think it more often than not comes down to fragile masculinity. That goes for any man of any age, race, etc. They don't like to feel like they aren't being catered to in some form- if they can't see themselves in the titular hero on screen, then they at least need the eye candy, and if they can't get that, then they feel like they aren't being catered to at all, and they feel left out. But oftentimes it's just fluff; those same crybabies still go see the thing in question, and even if they like it, will tear it apart because then they get the attention they feel they didn't in the film itself. Like a lot of folks today- they somehow don't/can't realize that other folks getting represented doesn't necessarily mean any less representation for them. But everyone wants to feel like they're the ones on top.
Don't know if any of that made sense. It kinda did in my mind.
I think the best thing we can do is to just keep on as we are- women belong in films, and they deserve to be the hero too. There's room within that to play with the idea of sexy vs. capable- sexy women can be capable, and capable women can be sexy, the two aren't mutually exclusive, and are allowed to change and evolve.
