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fac said:
Agreed about Jaws, or Silence of the Lambs, or even Psycho - where do they fall?
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Horror. They are totally horror movies. Folks just tend to shy away from the “horror” label when talking about films designated “good”.

fac said:
In terms of "Haunted House/Ghost story" supernatural type horror, which I would argue The Shining falls into, not sure what else is out there.
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Lots. I love The Shining, but it isn’t even the best haunted house movie: that would be The Haunting.

I’d say it’s less “there are few truly great films in the horror genre” and more “folks are uncomfortable rating horror films ‘good’ and/or categorizing ‘good’ films as horror”.
 
fac said:
In terms of "Haunted House/Ghost story" supernatural type horror, which I would argue The Shining falls into, not sure what else is out there.
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I think Sixth Sense and potentially Jacob's Ladder are in contention for ghosts. Jacob's Ladder didn't leave as big a mark on cinema, and Sixth Sense I think is diminished by M Night's later work, but that's more about the culture around film in general and less about the best one he ever made. I think Sixth Sense in execution absolutely stands up to the Shining.

Haunted house movies are like slashers, a sub genre that is almost always about the tropes in some way or another and not as often worried about being about anything else. And i think that's largely the deal with genre movies escaping the trope gravity well. Is the primary draw the tropes, or do they have enough going on that you aren't sure if they fit in their genre anymore?
 
AceofKnaves said:
Horror. They are totally horror movies. Folks just tend to shy away from the “horror” label when talking about films designated “good”.
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Yeah. This is spot on. A genre movie that's too good just stops getting associated with its genre. Because we simply can't have movies everyone agrees are masterpieces be purposefully in a genre.
 
I think some of that gatekeeping about good films not always being recognized also falls on some of the fandoms of specific genres, who tend to almost dislike mainstream appreciation - sort of like an indie band or artist getting popular so it can't be good anymore.

I think a film needs to expand beyond the tropes, or embed the tropes into a film that also does a bit more with style and depth, to make a great film. Not saying this as a movie snob but an example to me is Unforgiven, which I would think even someone with limited to no interest in Westerns can find to be a great film, or the aforementioned Silence of the Lambs even if you don't normally like thrillers. Needs to be elevated with great acting, visuals, design, pacing etc. Heat as a crime drama. I think you can like The Godfather and Goodfellas but not want to watch most typical "Mafia" films.

I tend in my head to limit horror to more the supernatural/monster/slasher stuff though...
 
fac said:
Unforgiven, which I would think even someone with limited to no interest in Westerns can find to be a great film
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I wanted to like that film. I really did. Maybe I just couldn’t get over it getting awards and accolades that I thought belonged to A Few Good Men that year? Not sure I love Eastwood directing Eastwood. Kind of like Allen directing Allen, but without the being a sicko creep of course.
Ru1977 said:
The original one right?
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Oh definitely the original. I talked all my friends into going to the remake with me: they had a blast, I started throwing things at the screen.
 
It's also worth remembering, genre itself is just a marketing construct. It's a way to target an audience, but it's not a scientific taxonomy (which, funnily enough, are often not that rigid themselves). Honestly the more I think about it, the more movies I feel like stand up to this scrutiny artistically. Hereditary, Get Out, The Witch, and The Lighthouse I think are all more recent examples of pieces of real solid art that really can't be described outside the realms of supernatural horror, but still have a LOT going on.

Hereditary in particular really messed me up because Toni Collette's performance reminded me so intensely of family I've had with mental illness and trauma responses. Like I don't know if I'll ever go back to that one because the dinner scene and others makes me so intensely uncomfortable. That one tapped directly into some nerves for me.
 
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Having lived through eras where I thought the “mainstream” horror-genre output was pretty poor overall, I’m surprised and pleased that the “state of the art” for current modern horror is “make good movies, please”. I’ve seen more truly good films in the horror genre recently than at any other time in my life. It’s a golden age.
 
AceofKnaves said:
Having lived through eras where I thought the “mainstream” horror-genre output was pretty poor overall, I’m surprised and pleased that the “state of the art” for current modern horror is “make good movies, please”. I’ve seen more truly good films in the horror genre recently than at any other time in my life. It’s a golden age.
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Agreed. I've been digging a lot of the recent horror I've watched. It ranges from memorable to good to certified banger and that's a great spread.
 
AceofKnaves said:
I wanted to like that film. I really did.
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I feel like I am in Bizarro world with people calling the Shining dull and disliking Unforgiven! 🤣 They would both be in discussion of Top 10 favorites of mine...

AceofKnaves said:
Not sure I love Eastwood directing Eastwood.
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Eastwood is prolific enough that he can be hit or miss to be sure, but I think he did great in both seats in many of his films - it is hard to separate for me as he hasn't done a lot of acting outside of his own films for so long.
 
AceofKnaves said:
Having lived through eras where I thought the “mainstream” horror-genre output was pretty poor overall, I’m surprised and pleased that the “state of the art” for current modern horror is “make good movies, please”. I’ve seen more truly good films in the horror genre recently than at any other time in my life. It’s a golden age.
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This might be part of it - the Horror genre in my youth/young adult years tended to either be the series like Halloween, Jason, Elm Street, (I've never like the "gore/kills" based horror), or the classics from the Universal Monster or Hammer eras (campy fun, but didn't fully work as scary per se), that most horror for me wasn't really working as being scary. You had a few odds and ends like The Exorcist or The Shining or The Wicker Man that had an actual mood of dread that were good, and Poltergeist had its moments, but to me well executed horror was rare. (Underrated from that time period is "Something Wicked This Way Comes")

So I am probably out of the loop a bit in terms of good modern horror. Anything like Eli Roth or Rob Zombie or the Terrifier stuff are things I will actively avoid...
 
fac said:
I feel like I am in Bizarro world with people calling the Shining dull and disliking Unforgiven!
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If it makes you feel better, I started watching The Shining pretty much every weekend starting when I was seven or so. I deeply love that film.
Unforgiven though . . . it’s not “dislike” so much as “doesn’t remotely live up to the hype for me”. Probably because it’s Men Talking About Men Stuff And Doing Men Stuff, which doesn’t usually resonate with me.
 
fac said:
The Exorcist or The Shining or The Wicker Man
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Yes. These are excellent films.


fac said:
Underrated from that time period is "Something Wicked This Way Comes"
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Top favorite! We just rewatched this week.


fac said:
I've never like the "gore/kills" based horror
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Not my preferred brand of horror either, so I get that. If I’m gonna have big gore, it needs to come with the guiding hand of a Romero or a Barker or such.


fac said:
Anything like Eli Roth or Rob Zombie or the Terrifier stuff are things I will actively avoid...
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Yep, not my brand either.
 
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I have to add Weapons, Barbarian, and Nosferatu as great recent horror movies that are actually about something.
fac said:
The only truly great film that also happens to fall under the "horror" genre is The Shining.
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This is so divorced from my perspective that I can't even get mad at it. It's like looking into an alternate dimension.
JakeEkiss said:
Surface of the sun level hot take, I'm not into Kubric. He makes beautiful pictures, but his cynicism coats every film of his I've seen. He films humans like they are insects.
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You and my wife would get along swimmingly. The only Kubrick she likes is Dr. Strangelove.

My surface-of-the-sun-level hot take is that Eyes Wide Shut is his best film. It still has that fishbowl feeling of observing a scientific experiment, but the experiment is human at its core.
AceofKnaves said:
Horror. They are totally horror movies.
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Absolutely. People qualify psychological thrillers as their own thing, but they're horror adjacent at the very least.
AceofKnaves said:
Lots. I love The Shining, but it isn’t even the best haunted house movie: that would be The Haunting.
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On my list for next year.
 
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