Star Wars Movie and Streaming Series Discussion

I won't apologize for not liking Andor. I want to like it, but i found the pace just glacially slow.

I wasn't that interested in *another* telling of the founding of the Rebellion to start with, and I was really put off by how Cassian was introduced as already having done some work against the Empire since I thought this was his origin story. Especially so since the back half of Season 1 was about him being randomly arrested and sentenced to a labor prison specifically for no reason. Why wasn't *that* his origin story and then he gets recruited by Skarsgard for the pay heist?

All that aside, though, what really tired me out is spending three episodes just getting ready for the heist. People tell me that the slow burn and steady buildup is part of its mature story telling, but I guess at only 53 years old, I'm just not ready for that level of maturity yet.
 
I can totally understand that Fletch. And that's coming from someone who does enjoy the show. But I can totally see why people either don't like it or think it's slow.

Even I think it's too slow at times. I also think there are moments that take me out of the Universe either because they are to mondain or remind me of real life here in nonfiction Earth. Or they simply are moments that don't feel like they belong in Star Wars.

But I love characters like Luthen and Mon Mothma. They are very well written, and the tension can be felt as they hide in plain sight from such a frightening and unbeatable enemy. And just the constant understanding throughout the show that you may win a war, but that doesn't mean you'll live to see the beauty and freedom that win brings. And I enjoy seeing who made the sacrifices and laid the groundwork for the heroes we know and love.

But you absolutely don't need to apologize for not liking it. It's opinion. And everyone's interpretation and opinion of a piece of art is their own, and it's one of the truest things that we have. It doesn't matter if something is universally loved or hated, you know in your heart and soul for sure where you stand.

And even like I said, I enjoy Andor. But can TOTALLY see how someone may not like it or enjoy it. While I do feel it's well written, and well-acted, it is perhaps the most un–Star Warsy piece of Sytar Wars in some parts of anything I've ever watched or read from the Universe.
 
I also get why people may not like it, and/or find it slow. The pacing is very deliberate, but that's something I really like. I find all the characters REALLY compelling too, even if it's just planning something for two episodes. I recognize it's something that's up my alley but my alley isn't necessarily a wide one. I get that.
 
Yeah "won't apologize" does come across strong. I'm not actually expecting people to call me out. Maybe I should've said "unapologetic."

I actually kind of like seeing slice of life moments in Star Wars, like the suburb planet in Skeleton Crew or Canto Bight, or the New Republic bureaucracy of Ahsoka. It's really why I want to like Andor. I'm also intrigued by comments above about how the Empire comes across terrifying to common people. That certainly wasn't the vibe I got from the yahoos in season 1, but I really like the idea of it.
 
I enjoyed the 1st 3 episodes these previous 3 not so much. The pacing slowed down way too much.
Plus episode 6
Whoa Whoa!! I wanted to see a whole episode where Bix gets her revenge! That was just so unsatisfyingly quick
 
No need to apologize, Fletch! To each their own. I think we all have that popular show that, while we can (usually) agree that it's well made, we just don't connect with it for whatever reason. Star Wars as a whole is certainly one of those "love it or hate it" kind of things, and just due to the sheer amount of stuff, we're bound to not like a few things (for me, Book of Boba Fett and TROS). I quite love Andor, but even I have a few moments where I'd like even a little teensy action scene. I'm interested to see how said scenes play out on a rewatch, since the first viewing for me is always just tampering expectations and processing information. I know I said it before, but I'm quite glad they decided to air each arc at once; as much as I loved season 1, hooo baby did some of those episodes drag; it's really a show that, at least as far as each arc is concerned, really benefits from bingeing. Luckily we're amongst friends here and I don't think you have to worry about anyone chewing you out like they may on other forums.
 
I enjoyed the 1st 3 episodes these previous 3 not so much. The pacing slowed down way too much.
Plus episode 6
Whoa Whoa!! I wanted to see a whole episode where Bix gets her revenge! That was just so unsatisfyingly quick

It was jarring at first but thinking about the heavy Lonni focus this round and all the little clues throughout, it made sense enough how they were able to pull it off when you just assume they spent the entire thing chilling in the flat.

Kleya and Lonni were the MVPs of this one, I adored the museum scene with them trying the retrieval while Mon and the special guest playfully shittalked each other in full view of everyone. I really hope they both survive the series, or at the very least I need Kleya to make it. Her final scene laughing at Luthen's suggestion was iconic.

According to some French viewers, the Ghorman language sounded similar to the French version of The Sims, just complete nonsense but done so convincingly non-French bods wouldn't know!
 
Kleya and Lonni were the MVPs of this one
Completely agreed.
I really hope they both survive the series
Again, agreed. I don't know how optimistic I can be about Bix and Wilmon, but again... I hope all the surviving characters, even the imperials, get spun into a new series set during the OT. I HOPE Bix and Wilmon are there though. But Kleya is someone that always stuck out, and I was really glad she got a lot more business and enjoyed it immensely. I could see a show centered around Kleya, Mon, and Lonnie, presumably with Luthen and Vel as well, being great.
Her final scene laughing at Luthen's suggestion was iconic
Yes!

as far as Bix's revenge goes... I do get that criticism. This, to me, falls under the same thing as wishing it wasn't two episodes planning a heist/one episode of that heist. But these are such deep character studies that the heist, or in this case the act of revenge, aren't the point. They're the resolution of the journey. It's not fun watching Bix deteriorate over time, but it was incredibly compelling and heartbreaking. That catharsis at the end was, for me, perfect. I wouldn't have preferred 20-40 minutes of her breaking into the complex, sneaking around, possibly evading troops and such. No, she got right to the point, handled her business, prevented someone from getting in her way, then they blew the place up. Again, I get why you want more, but I prefer wanting more to having too much. The action is great, but the characters are the point. How this rebellion affects so many different levels and positions. Clearly not for everyone, but I'll be sorry when I finish the finale.
 
Last edited:
I totally get why it's not everyone's cuppa - really the only time "it's not for me" becomes a problem is those relentless online folks who make not liking something their entire personality. I love Andor but cannot sit through three minutes of Always Sunny in Philadelphia and I actually used to do theater with Charlie Day and WANT to like it. It's just a type of storytelling my brain doesn't connect with.

Lots of thoughts on this week's installment, but aside from the Lonni and Kleya show which I loved - is there any other major franchise where we know the end of so many characters before we know their middle or even their beginning? I love the way Saw has unfolded for us for damned near 20 years now, one sliver of his brutal, tragic story at a time. His Shakespearean rant this week was one of Star Wars' most intriguing moments, I think, and the fact that we know where the mindset that has haunted him since the Clone Wars will get him. And how we know that about so many of the characters in this show, that they don't end well, but heroically, or villainously. Saw's one of the finest examples but we've seen similar non-linear stories with so many prequel trilogy Jedi or villains, side characters from the OT... I just can't think of another franchise that gives us such a rich story after telling us where so many characters end.

Thinking of folks I'd like to see get the inverted story treatment. General Merrick? I think I just like Ben Daniels so much that I'd love to see more of Merrick, maybe in an animated show or such.
 
Merrick is a great one, I concur.

And yes Saw has really been amazing this season. What he's given, he gets up to 90 immediately.
 
Merrick is a great one, I concur.

And yes Saw has really been amazing this season. What he's given, he gets up to 90 immediately.
I need to dig around and see if Whitaker has talked at length about playing the character. It feels like he goes deeper with each appearance, really leaning in on the crumbling stability of a man who has been fighting for freedom and vengeance since childhood and how that can eat away at a man's soul.
 
I agree, he owns the character so hard that I wouldn't be surprised to learn he created it. I know he didn't, but that's how he treats Saw.
 
m'yeah, there is plenty about the Disney Star Wars that I'm not a big fan of but I would hate it if anything I said got love-bombed by the reactionary set. in retrospect, reading complaints of 'forced diversity' when TFA came out was the first sign of things to come.

for me, there are a lot of issues related to the new Star Wars that can be attributed to two things: one, long-term franchise fatigue and two, the fact that I am far too old to be in the target audience for these movies/TV shows.

I'm starting to think that franchise-fatigue is a coy way of not admitting (or not saying, or not realizing) that some stuff is just not really very good. A lot of people with SW-fatigue during the new trilogy suddenly didn't have it for S1 Mandalorian. Ya' know? I think the fatigue sets in very specifically when something isn't good enough on its own merits to not just be a nostalgia grab. The more the show makes you think about how you only like it because you've always liked this whatever it is, the more it feels like 'fatigue' of that thing, when really you just don't like crappy movies or TV shows.

Same for the target audience argument, which I've seen in a lot of places. I am not really the target audience for Teen Titans Go! I watched that show because my son liked it. And I will STILL watch it with him whenever there's a new episode, even if I don't really need to be in the room at the time, because it's a fucking hilarious show most of the time. Things can be good or not good. I don't think there's legitimately a specific target audience for 'a good time.'
The obvious exception being stuff written and filmed very specifically for extremely young children. Totally valid that adults aren't going to have a good time watching someone teach you how you count or what colors and shapes are. But if you can't get into a kids' cartoon, for example, it might just be BAD rather than 'not made for adults.'


To be fair, I wouldn't necessarily say any of Star Wars, at least the ones written by George, are exactly "well-written".

I've banged this drum for YEARS. George is absolutely terrible at writing. You can feel the lack of oversight and free-thinking creative input in the Prequel Trilogy. It's painful how obvious it is that these were films made after the period where George had become so rich, famous, and powerful that no one could, or was willing to, tell him how fucking stupid all of his writing was. Terrible.

Everything in the Prequels is bad writing, bad dialogue, and plot holes. TPM is one of my favorite pieces of Star Wars media - but it's actually pretty awful and I would argue it gets significantly worse across AotC and RotS. I won't even dignify George's complete lack of talent by calling this subjective. If you don't know the prequels are brimming with terrible dialogue, incredibly stupid writing, and obvious plot holes, then I would argue you simply aren't watching them -before- you pop 3 Ambien.


I won't apologize for not liking Andor. I want to like it, but i found the pace just glacially slow.

I wasn't that interested in *another* telling of the founding of the Rebellion to start with, and I was really put off by how Cassian was introduced as already having done some work against the Empire since I thought this was his origin story. Especially so since the back half of Season 1 was about him being randomly arrested and sentenced to a labor prison specifically for no reason. Why wasn't *that* his origin story and then he gets recruited by Skarsgard for the pay heist?

All that aside, though, what really tired me out is spending three episodes just getting ready for the heist. People tell me that the slow burn and steady buildup is part of its mature story telling, but I guess at only 53 years old, I'm just not ready for that level of maturity yet.
I get this. Famously (because I am actually very famous), I called Andor a total snoozefest and said I hated it after not even 2 full episodes. I didn't go back to it for maybe two months? I don't even know why I finally did. I think my wife really wanted to try to finish it because people had convinced her it gets better.
And sure enough, I went out of it being a big fan of the show. But it ABSOLUTELY has a problem with pacing. Particularly in the early episodes. Detrimentally so. And I don't blame you if you got bored and decided to just not go back to it.
 
I'm starting to think that franchise-fatigue is a coy way of not admitting (or not saying, or not realizing) that some stuff is just not really very good
I absolutely agree with this. Anytime superhero fatigue is brought up, I argue it's just an aversion to bad movies.
Teen Titans Go
Yes, the show, and Go To The Movies, are hilarious. All ages.
 
as far as Bix's revenge goes... I do get that criticism. This, to me, falls under the same thing as wishing it wasn't two episodes planning a heist/one episode of that heist. But these are such deep character studies that the heist, or in this case the act of revenge, aren't the point. They're the resolution of the journey. It's not fun watching Bix deteriorate over time, but it was incredibly compelling and heartbreaking. That catharsis at the end was, for me, perfect. I wouldn't have preferred 20-40 minutes of her breaking into the complex, sneaking around, possibly evading troops and such. No, she got right to the point, handled her business, prevented someone from getting in her way, then they blew the place up. Again, I get why you want more, but I prefer wanting more to having too much. The action is great, but the characters are the point. How this rebellion affects so many different levels and positions. Clearly not for everyone, but I'll be sorry when I finish the finale.

Then maybe I missed something because I don't understand how they got into a supposed heavily guarded Imperial building so easily. There was only ONE guard for the entire thing??? Also would have liked to see their reaction when Luthen told them what their mission was.
 
Back
Top