TTRPGs & D&D

[Damien]

I had a come-to-Jesus moment with this recently. Not just RPing, but the game in general. Whatever the DM has cooking probably isn't my ideal game. There's too much magic, there's too little magic, the stakes are too high, the stakes are too low, the setting is not what I want, etc. If I don't like the setting, that's what my DM sessions are for. Playing the game the DM wants to run will almost always result in the best player experience. Same with RPing. I try to meet the other players where they are.

So many TTRPG players and DMs actually just want to write a book. The faster they can square that and understand that the game is going to be a different thing from 'the story I've created in my head,' the happier they will be.

 

[JakeEkiss]

Playing the game the DM wants to run will almost always result in the best player experience.

I would say this as someone who historically DMs far more than he plays, but I always think of it as a politeness thing too. The DM does orders of magnitude more work, even with minimal prep, to make any given session happen. That means they're sort of like the driver on a long road trip. When you drive, you get to pick the music.

I think maybe that's where some of the long suffering DM stuff comes from. DMs whose players just don't respect that there is a difference of labor there. Who treat their DMs sort of like a dancing monkey. I've been lucky not to have many players like that, but I've heard some tales.

 

[docsilence]

I would say this as someone who historically DMs far more than he plays, but I always think of it as a politeness thing too. The DM does orders of magnitude more work, even with minimal prep, to make any given session happen. That means they're sort of like the driver on a long road trip. When you drive, you get to pick the music.

I think maybe that's where some of the long suffering DM stuff comes from. DMs whose players just don't respect that there is a difference of labor there. Who treat their DMs sort of like a dancing monkey. I've been lucky not to have many players like that, but I've heard some tales.

Those have been the games that I've gotten resentful of, for sure - when I feel like the entertainment. If the players are invested and engaged and locked in I can DM forever because they're lifting me up, but if I feel like I'm hauling the whole thing forward on my own I tend to burn out.

 

[Jolene00Negative]

i have not read the previous 15 pages, but god i love rping.

Tonight I'm in a Star Trek Adventures game by an amazing gm, and on saturday i finish up a game of Rapscallion set in the Star Wars universe.

Rapscallion, sadly, feels like it needs more editing work cause even 10+ sessions we're still getting confused by the rules

 

[docsilence]

i have not read the previous 15 pages, but god i love rping.

Tonight I'm in a Star Trek Adventures game by an amazing gm, and on saturday i finish up a game of Rapscallion set in the Star Wars universe.

Rapscallion, sadly, feels like it needs more editing work cause even 10+ sessions we're still getting confused by the rules

Are you using 1.0 or 2.0 rules for Star Trek? I've been hoping to run a game for some friends but can't decided if I should use 1.0 (which I'm familiar with) or the new stuff.

 

[Jolene00Negative]

2.0, i'm not the gm, but getting rid of the custom dice is so much better

 

[Fletch]

@Jolene00Negative, playing Star Trek Adventures, do you find that it's more like recreating an episode of the show, or more like having an adventure that just happens to take place in Starfleet?

I've never played it, but it seems to have some narrative elements that keep it from being just an "adventure in Starfleet" game, but not enough narrative elements to make it a true show simulator.

Does any of that make sense?

 

[docsilence]

2.0, i'm not the gm, but getting rid of the custom dice is so much better

The custom dice in any game is almost always what puts me off because I run almost all of my games remotely and it makes it just a little bit harder to explain to people. Same reason I hesitate to run the current VtM. It's not hard to fudge them with normal dice but they reall do make you feel like it's easier with the custom stuff. (Maybe it's my retired dice goblin side kicking in: "let me uuuuuse my own maaaath roockkkssssss")

 

[Jolene00Negative]

@Jolene00Negative, playing Star Trek Adventures, do you find that it's more like recreating an episode of the show, or more like having an adventure that just happens to take place in Starfleet?

I've never played it, but it seems to have some narrative elements that keep it from being just an "adventure in Starfleet" game, but not enough narrative elements to make it a true show simulator.

Does any of that make sense?

it feels like episodes to me, but i have to admit, i've got a gm thats been gming sta since first edition.

the other aspect is, like, every show has a different feeling vibe to it so each one could be played in different ways.

 

[Fletch]

it feels like episodes to me, but i have to admit, i've got a gm thats been gming sta since first edition.

I'm not normally a fan of narrative roleplaying, but some genres kind of call for it. Superhero RPGs, fer instance. I think I'd appreciate those narrative conventions in a Star Trek game too. I like how it tracks momentum, so small, even unrelated, victories pay off. And the rules for playing alternate crew members also seems to enforce the ensemble cast feel.

 

[Fletch]

So, I'm a bit of an old grognard with probably inaccurately fond memories of 2nd ed D&D and the like. I liked the way the rules simulated reality a little better than modern games do. But when I revisit those rules, I honestly have to ask myself "how did a 14 year old ever figure this out?"

Anyways, I've recently been revisiting my 3.5e books, and I'm kind of surprised by how old school they feel while still having easy to grasp rules. I'm sure the perception is based on modern comparisons, but I really appreciate how much the game at the time was still trying to simulate something rather than make concessions.

Like, barbarians are illiterate by default. That's just a straight up handicap no modern version would sign off on. Specialist wizards lose access to two entire schools of magic. It's so ballsy. I remember back in the day thinking "oh my god, they let dwarves be druids," and here we have crafters actually losing XP to make a magic item.

And not for nothing, some of my favorite settings were in 3rd Ed. Greyhawk, obviously, but my group's preferred setting was Eberron. And I still have a soft spot for the Scarred Lands of the time. Freeport, Arcanis and Iron Kingdoms also seemed really high quality, although I never played in any of them. Also also, some great adventures published by WotC, Necromancer Games, Eden Studios, and a young Paizo who really peaked with their adventure paths in the 3.5 Dungeon Magazines.

As an added bonus, the D20 movement also gave us Mutants & Masterminds and Spycraft, two really good genre games. I even have nice things to say about D20 Star Wars.

That was an unplanned essay, but I guess ultimately what I'm saying is that enough time has passed that somehow 3rd Edition now feels like retro gaming to me. I'd forgotten how much I liked about it.

 

[Jolene00Negative]

I want to try a classic D&D style game so badly, cause it's been so long.

but I also don't really like any D&D other than 4e

 

[jonaskane]

I would love to play a BECMI game.

 

[Fletch]

but I also don't really like any D&D other than 4e

There's a first.

But yes, there's a lot to like about 4e and I think they'd really dialed it in by Essentials. I wish it had stuck around longer after that.

I really liked having a distinct role to play in combat, and I think progression tracks for things like poisons and petrification was really smart.

For me, though, it lacked a real reward system. Something that started with 3e but was really crystallized in Pathfinder and 4e was Wealth By Level. It created a system where you *had* to get a certain amount of treasure each level, and *no more* than that. The system only existed to keep you appropriately powered with magic items. Like Rick said "you mine to craft things and you craft to mine things."

But rules aside, i really liked the lore for the setting. The two 4e prequel books, Races & Classes and Worlds & Monsters, are a couple of my favorite game books.

I would love to play a BECMI game.

Moldvay was my very first D&D, and to this day I have a great fondness for it. It's such a headspace to get into, though. Death was around every corner, and hirelings and morale checks were all that kept you alive. You got more XP for gold than for monsters, so you won more by NOT fighting. Delving was about mapping, resource management, encumbrance, and all the other things current editions think players don't want to bother with.

The entire experience was so tense, it was an absolute horror show. So when your characters made it out alive, it really felt like a victory.

 

[jonaskane]

I started in a weird BECMI/1st AD&D hybrid in middle school. I played up to 3.5 then didn't play anything for a long while. Have played a handful of 5e sessions. 5e is fun enough but I do kinda miss the feeling of 'danger'.