Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

This will be the film where Peter finally gets to guide another character, by admonishing Punisher & course correcting his path in life. :sneaky:
 
AceofKnaves said:
Interact?
Yes.
Be press-ganged into being a child soldier and then admonished about his conduct by the very narcissist who press-ganged him, and then weeping for the death of that man?

No.
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I debated getting into this because I really don't believe in cyber bullying (wink), and I am very aware of your feelings on the movie Tony, but from my perspective... Peter was already risking his life in the streets, then Tony took him to web up and keep his distance with a group that were pulling their punches (he KNEW Cap would hold back)*.

When coming back to NY, Tony wanted Peter to keep it small time, like with the churro guy. When Peter bites off more than he can chew too many times, Tony tried to remove that option from him to keep Peter out of big trouble but Peter handled things on his own, by his own means, and was able to save the day etc. Tony recognized Peter's capabilities and reversed his position, but Peter felt he had found his level and wanted to remain there. But Peter, in his heart, wants to help and protect people and can't help jumping into action in Infinity War.

And I dunno my dad is a narcissist and someone I told my mom was very difficult to love when I was five, but I'll probably still weep for him.

Let me know how many PMs you get asking what my problem is.



*Except Wanda.
 
Ru1977 said:
I debated getting into this because I really don't believe in cyber bullying (wink),
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YOU MONSTER.
🤪

Nah, I dig it. I’ve heard all the arguments.

I just . . . man, if movie Tony Stark were a real guy, I’d toss his arrogant, bullying ass out of my house. I don’t think I’ve ever had such a negative reaction to a fictional character I’m supposed to “like”.

And when it comes to Spidey?
It’s all classic narcissistic abuse, and it’s so hard to watch.

Also: he gave the kid a fucking GUN. “Instant Kill Mode”? Holy shit, man.
He gave the kid a gun, and the kid USED the gun.
Unforgivable.
Vile.
 
DarthDre758 said:
That was only available to him AFTER Peter hacked the suit.
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It was available when he used it to start killing foes in the battle at the end of Endgame.
An absolute rubicon-cross.
Totally unacceptable, completely out of character for any reasonable portrayal of Spider-man, and ultimately just grimdark mean-spirited awfulness. Like most of the garbage swirling around movie Tony Stark.

I don’t want to get into the whole “movie Iron Man directly contributed to the ‘let’s worship an arrogant bullying scumbag’ energy that props up guys like Trump, Musk, etc” because it will make folks sad, but it’s absolutely the truth. Movie Iron Man directly made the world a worse place.
 
Again- a double-edged sword, I feel. By Tony stepping up to mentor Peter, it obviously puts him into situations that he wouldn't necessarily find himself in otherwise, even if he did already flirt with danger. But at the same time, providing guidance, not to mention upgraded, more protective suits to help protect Peter in the line of battle, can only help. Choosing to embrace your powers and be a superhero already puts your life in danger, but you know that going in. It's moreso what you choose to fight for and how you choose to put yourself on the line to protect others. He knew Peter was headstrong and going to fight no matter what, so he wanted to help guide him and rein him in a bit. Was he the right person to do so? Debatable. You could easily argue, and probably be right, that he'd have been better and safer under Steve's mentorship, but Steve would probably never have taken Peter under his wing to begin with because of the moral debate. Tony probably saw a lot of himself in Peter- that young, slightly hot-headed, yet endlessly talented and ingenious kid; you could argue Tony, in a lot of ways, probably reflected who Peter longed to be as well. But that's a whole other deep, heady discussion. To put it into more simple terms, I'd argue Tony is/was Chaotic Good, whereas Peter, at least when he was under Tony's tutelage, was somewhere between a Neutral and a Lawful Good.

It's not hard for me to see why Peter mourned for Tony. Even with my terrible father, I still mourned the guy when he passed. It's deeply ingrained in us, I think, regardless of how flawed a person is, to default to love and care. Not to mention he essentially fulfilled the role that his own father and Uncle Ben would have. Whereas Tony saw Peter's potential, I think Peter, much like Pepper, saw Tony's softer side that he tried so hard to hide beneath the arrogance. For all of Tony's flaws- which there were many- he was, I think, a good person deep down, and always did the right thing, especially for those he cared about, even if he unwillingly put them in danger first. But I think that's the point of the overall MCU- you and those you love are always in danger. It's moreso how you handle it, how prepared you are, and what you're willing to sacrifice to save the day.

I also think it's not exactly true to say that it's uncharacteristic of Spider Man to be mean-spirited. It all depends on the story arc. I think the whole point is that he often does let his emotions get the best of him, hence why the symbiote attached itself to him in the first place. He's still young enough that he hasn't learned to control his feelings and impulses, which is why someone like Tony, who's given in to those urges a little too often but realizes his mistakes, could potentially be a good fit to mentor him.
 
DarthDre758 said:
That was only available to him AFTER Peter hacked the suit.
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Respectfully, putting the “gun” in the suit in the first place is the problem, not how Peter was able to access it.
“Oh I’ll put a gun in this suit but I won’t let him use it”?
Yeah, fuck you, Tony, you reckless shithead.
 
AceofKnaves said:
Respectfully, putting the “gun” in the suit in the first place is the problem, not how Peter was able to access it.
“Oh I’ll put a gun in this suit but I won’t let him use it”?
Yeah, fuck you, Tony, you reckless shithead.
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Tony Derangement Syndrome? 😅

I agree with @joshsquash729 - I think you could read Tony bringing Peter in and upgrading his suit as another example of him losing the plot at times while trying to to do the right thing, but the fact he was trying to the right things matters - in this case giving Peter the armor so he is less likely to be killed fighting bad guys, but not really thinking through as to what he was asking Peter to do or the responsibility he handed to him. Or how impressionable Peter might be when a science genius superhero takes him under his wing.
 
I think we're letting our "Yay, Spidey's in the MCU" cloud our judgements.

He lied to a kid's guardian so he could take him out of the country to fight in a battle where the enemy was accidentally exploding fuel tankers on people. Then he tried to get him to drop out of high school to become an Avenger full time.

You can say that all he wanted was for him to web up Cap, but the answer to that is "I'll give you $2.5 million for the web shooters."
 
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