U.S. Politics

Damien said:
I think where we need to allow grace in the 'I don't agree with everything they do' conversation is the regular political stuff. If you vote for someone like Harris and she decides to increase the budget for schools but NOT for infrastructure.. it's totally fair to say 'I don't agree with every decision.' Because you can't possibly know every single thing a politician is going to do.
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for what it's worth, I voted 'uncommitted' in the 2024 Dem primary mainly due to Biden's support of the genocide in Palestine. if I were consistent I should have not voted for Kamala. :-/
 
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, Wicker_Basket. We don't live in a binary world, but we are forced into a false dichotomy with only two viable political parties, one representing something completely antithetical to Palestine's survival. Trump literally wants to turn it into resorts and evict all the residents. I think it's OK to look at Harris and Biden's complacency and enabling and hold them to account for what they did/are doing in the middle east, while also seeing the gradient of severity between their policy and the policy of a man who quite certainly is a complete existential threat to the cause, amongst other causes that you may care about.

It's like in highschool. It's better to get an F on a paper or a test than a 0%, because a 0% will tank your average grade and you'll have to carry that boulder with you all semester. You can resurrect an F, even if it sucks to get one, even if you deserve better or the world deserves better, it is still fundamentally 50% more than nothing. My teachers always drove that home to the kids that were in a precarious position with their grades. Being awake and alive in our mortal coil is eschewing perfection and idealism and dealing with the disparaging fact that our communal swimming pool might always have turds in it even though we can all picture crystal clear water, and most people want that, severely. But... at least we have a pool. It is what it is.

Protest where you can, but save what you can as well. Being complex isn't being inconsistent.

As for Trump, I think he appeals to the dark unconscious of the nation. I don't think he won on policy because his policy does not help the average American thrive. He won on emotion, apathy, dissonance, disassociation, fear, anger, self loathing, annoyance, insecurity, jealousy, racism, homophobia, magical thinking and manipulation. All of these things are by their very nature inconsistent and often contradictory. He is a hard enemy to battle because when you battle him via his followers, you are most often not debating policy, but meddling in an unprocessed shadow realm of contradictory emotion, that is skinned in political talking points. I don't know that MAGA can be reached until the lights turn on and they have to look at what they have made. If there's hope, it's in the Kylo Rens of the world, who still have a part of them that can be reached. We will not find a better future unless they turn.
 
Re: voting, principles and Palestine:

I have always, ALWAYS believed that voting is not about choosing who you “like” the best or even agree with the most: it’s about choosing your *opponent*, not your ally.

If the Palestine issue has taught us anything, it has taught us that *no* party is on the side of “good”. We will always have to fight against governmental systems in the interest of freedom and justice. In my view, when we vote we are advocating for the opponent we feel we can make the most progress against, the foe we can gain the most ground on. Harris/Walz absolutely did not have a principled stance on genocide, and that is unacceptable to me. Conversely, the MAGA hierarchy is *actively* pro-genocide and pro-ethnic cleansing and certainly just generally pro-nationalism/fascism/neo-Nazi horror. I’d MUCH rather wage a battle against the government consisting of “take a stand against neo-Nazi genocidal madness, you cowards!!!” than wage war against literal neo-Nazi genocidal madmen running OUR government. I cast my vote accordingly, and will continue to do so for as long as I am allowed to vote.

Ultimately, it is my firm belief that we have to wean ourselves entirely, on a societal level, from worshipful parasocial relationships with “famous” people; whether said “famous” people are politicians, celebrities, athletes, movie stars, “influencers”, whatever. The entirety of US social systems, and by extension its voting traditions, are rooted in the absurd and manipulative myth of “American exceptionalism” and the linked mythology of “great men doing great things”. There are no “heroes” and there never were, not in real life anyway: just flawed people making flawed decisions, mostly for selfish reasons. No person, no country, no political system has ever been “great”. No one is “better” nor “worse” than anyone else. We have to break ourselves from the adoration of mythologized individuals that led to Trump and MAGA. It’s an addiction.
 
There's a lot of stuff I wanted to quote from the last few pages of the tariff thread before it spiraled. I might go back and do that once I have time. For now:
AceofKnaves said:
Ultimately, it is my firm belief that we have to wean ourselves entirely, on a societal level, from worshipful parasocial relationships with “famous” people; whether said “famous” people are politicians, celebrities, athletes, movie stars, “influencers”, whatever. The entirety of US social systems, and by extension its voting traditions, are rooted in the absurd and manipulative myth of “American exceptionalism” and the linked mythology of “great men doing great things”. There are no “heroes” and there never were, not in real life anyway: just flawed people making flawed decisions, mostly for selfish reasons. No person, no country, no political system has ever been “great”. No one is “better” nor “worse” than anyone else. We have to break ourselves from the adoration of mythologized individuals that led to Trump and MAGA. It’s an addiction.
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100%. People talk about Mark Cuban or Stephen A. Smith running for president and it makes me want to die. Between Reagan and Trump, haven't we had enough famous people in office?

I don't think it could happen on the Democratic side (knock on wood), but I'm sure Republicans are eager to vote for President Kid Rock or whatever. Musk would be the obvious next choice if he were American.
 
I can understand admiring a celebrity because they have a real and obvious talent. I have and will never understand the celebrity worship of a politician. Similarly, I'll just never understand the appeal of Donald Trump at all. Even as a kid, he struck me as someone who should be laughed at and ridiculed for the spoiled, rich, man-baby that he is. The fact that he's able to win over a bunch of blue collar, working class Americans will forever be a headscratcher.
 
I just want to say thanks to all those posting to this thread. I find that most of my thoughts and opinions have already been eloquently expressed by others. And while I may disagree with TSI's opinions on the qualities of some action figures, or part ways with KD about the worthiness of Super7 Ultimates... I strongly align with them on politics and social issues. I find that AgentHemlock's last several posts expressed thoroughly and thoughtfully alot of what I might have said, so I won't say it again.

But I appreciate the conversation and having a group of smart guys who 'get it'' to at least talk about it with. My wife refuses to engage... its too much, its too scary... we have a kid to get thru high school and off to college and she wants to focus on that and not on what kind of a world he'll be stepping into or whether college education will even be the same 3 years from now given the administration's blatant attacks on first Columbia and now Harvard... if he gets those schools to bend - and it certainly seems as if Columbia already has - what hope do any other universities have?

Anyway... thanks y'all.
 
My wife is the same, @PantherCult. For the most part, she chooses to compartmentalize, which can be frustrating to me, but I get it. Thankfully I have you guys and my therapist to talk to.
 
I was reading an article today about the staffing cuts at the FDA. Toy tariffs are scary enough but the fact that the food we eat is about to be less safe is on another level. I'm really starting to harbor some angry resentment towards my family members that voted for him. Watching them in ignorant bliss while I stress out about it is frustrating. They aren't MAGA so much as just brainwashed by social media but a vote for him is still a vote.
 
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The story today of the 18 year old kid that ICE has detained and is preparing to ship to El Salvador because there was a Facebook photo of him holding a SQUIRT GUN. It keeps getting more and more crazy.

It feels like we are perilously close to a world where a twitchy neighbor could report you for 'suspicious activity' and they can just whisk you off without due process and if it turns out the accusations were baseless? Oh well... oops... nothing we can do about it now.
 
@PantherCult I would argue we aren't close to it - we're there. ICE agents are just grabbing people with tattoos and illegally jailing them overseas. Anyone would have to be out of their absolute fucking mind to think ICE agents WOULDN'T show up to do that if you called in a 'tip' on your neighbor.
 
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