Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

Saw Fantastic Four today. Like with Superman, I thought it would benefit more if I saw it without spoilers, and in this case it absolutely did.

It was kind of exciting how many times their plans fail.

I wasn't prepared for Johnny to be the one to connect with Surfer, especially by way of unexpected (and frankly unbelievable) linguistic skills. Still, it was a cool way to present Shala Bal's history, I just wish it lead to more than 6 seconds worth of redemption at the end.

The cast was kind of bland, though. Like, they acted really well, but they were all kind of the same character. They seemed so unified in purpose that they felt interchangeable. No real unique voices, I think is what I'm trying to say, and no real conflict.

Galactus
Was somehow a disappointment. He looked great, but he didn't live up to any of my admittedly made-up expectations. A lot of my excitement for the movie came from early suggestions that Galactus was a Cthulhu-like unknowable entity, but he really wasn't. Complimenting the Four on being clever bugs, and the slight joy he showed pulling Reed apart just humanized him too much. He was just a giant dude who wasn't even powerful enough to touch down at his target. Mofo had to walk there.

Like with Supermen, I think this movie is a great sequel. There has to be something between skipping the origin story and skipping four years of development.
 
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Schizm said:
BTW - Galactus heads sold out everywhere around me. Big shocker.
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Same here, but I did manage to place a pre-order for the next round of them from AMC. Apparently won't be out until December, but that's okay. Roundabout when it'll be out on home media.
 
F4 is my favorite Marvel movie in a long, long time. I loved every second of it. Much like Superman, I think it tells a big story very quickly without feeling rushed, it gives the characters time to breathe and the audience time to fall in love with them. It makes its villains tragic and its heroes worth loving.

The thing I didn't expect though, was
As the feral uncle who will die for my nephews and nieces, I didn't expect Johnny's and Ben's attachment to Franklin to hit so hard. Not only was "tell Franklin Uncle Johnny loves him" a "yeah, I would too" moment but also the core of Johnny is that he is so fucking desperate, when written well, to burn away. His whole point is he's forever looking for a way to burn himself to ashes. Shalla Bal saves Earth but she also saves Johnny from himself. That's a top romantic moment in MCU history right there.

Reed telling Franklin "there's something wrong with me" was devastating. Pedro gave a deeply moving gravitas to the most misunderstood and often poorly written of Marvel's geniuses through the whole film.

I would've liked more time with Ben, but that can come later. That Benjamin Grimm walked right out of the best comic panels.

Officially a Vanessa Kirby fan. She didn't have to carry the movie, but she could have. Perfect casting, just a fucking powerhouse.

And yeah, that ethical quandary? In another time in history, it might have felt too much, but people would expect the people who they admire the most to make an ultimate sacrifice they themselves wouldn't. That's reality. That's our world.
 
docsilence said:
And yeah, that ethical quandary? In another time in history, it might have felt too much, but people would expect the people who they admire the most to make an ultimate sacrifice they themselves wouldn't.
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This movie found success in the same place Thunderbolts did, with an enemy they can't just punch away.* I believed every second of Reed's conflict over considering the ultimate solution as well as every second of Sue's conflict that she knew he had considered it.

*
Until they do just kind of push it away. An unexpectedly blunt way to deal with an esoteric threat and a little anti-climactic for me.
 
But you do have to consider it - if it gets to the point that Franklin will be dead no matter what - either when the planet is eaten or given to Big G, don't you have to give him up to save everything else? At some point it stops being a hypothetical and you have to consider all the other children and lives as well, as brutal as that might be. I almost feel the answer is in the movie, when various adults make that choice to potentially or actually sacrifice themselves for the greater good (I should note I dislike this noble sacrifice trope but that is a different story)
 
fac said:
But you do have to consider it - if it gets to the point that Franklin will be dead no matter what - either when the planet is eaten or given to Big G, don't you have to give him up to save everything else? At some point it stops being a hypothetical and you have to consider all the other children and lives as well, as brutal as that might be. I almost feel the answer is in the movie, when various adults make that choice to potentially or actually sacrifice themselves for the greater good (I should note I dislike this noble sacrifice trope but that is a different story)
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It's not an easy dilemma to sell because the math is so obvious. Surfer's line about how Franklin would sacrifice himself if he were able to really emphasizes it (in a good way. That was a good scene with Johnny).

I think if they'd played up a bit the torment that Franklin would face with an eternity of hunger if he took Galactus' place it would have felt more unsure. Like, do we consign one person to unending suffering so the rest of you can die of old age? That feels like more of a choice.
 
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TheSameIdiot said:
I didn't expect the movie to spawn a debate about utilitarianism.

I thought it had the best third act in a Marvel movie in a long time.
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Both of these, yes.

I certainly didn't expect the movie to call to mind my own personal favorite/most devastating moment in F4 pseudo-history, the last conversation Reed has with Franklin in Earth X. Reed's conversations with Franklin in comic have always been and will always be about a man who knows the universe will require him to destroy and sacrifice everything and everything he loves, and he's too logical to ignore that sometimes there is an argument where his own suffering and loss balances the scale best. That Earth X scene with Reed asking Black Bolt to yell one word into the cosmos, man. Breaks my heart every time.

I think it's why I really hate that Reed's become a Marvel punching bag so often. He works so much better when it's self-loathing than when the universe loathes him.

Having a film finally acknowledge
Johnny is low-key suicidal really hit me hard. If Johnny were real, he'd be a member of the 27 club. He tries to throw his life away heroically twice in an hour and fifty-five minutes.
 
Maybe it was just because I've been dealing with a lot of stuff with my own Mom recently and the prospect of losing her, but the Sue stuff really hit me hard. My mom's done a hell of a lot for my family over the years, which I didn't fully appreciate as a kid, but have really grown to in recent years. So the whole idea of a mother fighting tooth and nail to save her child against a towering giant, literal or figurative, really moved me. Also didn't help that I saw the film with my mother, and when
Franklin brought Sue back to life,
my Mom looked over at me and said "That's what it's like" (she's been very nostalgic lately, reminiscing on how grateful she is for my sister and I, long story). The whole 3rd act really hit home for me, and I think Pedro's acting in that scene was quite powerful. I actually quite loved how, despite being so publicly adored, each of the 4 in their own way kinda had their moments of loneliness or feeling like something was missing/broken. I hope that's something they definitely explore more with the X-Men whenever they start up on that.
 
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