Super 7 Ultimates Thread

I used to wonder if their prices were so high because they paid their employees really well. They sure seemed happy to be working there and regurgitate company lines. Then they went and fired everyone…
Everyone regurgitates company lies when they're on camera. Because everyone needs their job more than their integrity. No slight to anyone. It's just true. Integrity doesn't feed you. I certainly wouldn't chalk it up to any kind of actual loyalty. I've spoken with enough people that work at those types of companies and let me tell you; I've never spoken to even one of them that didn't have some shit to say if they knew it couldn't get back to their employer that they said it.


Yeah I think people would be surprised about the margin on tots in general


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I would argue that the margins on most PRODUCTS would surprise many people that have never been on the production side of consumerism. That Rubbermaid 18 Gallon tote that you can get from Walmart for like 8 dollars? It costs about 12-15 cents to manufacture, and is 'in the door' at Walmart for under 40 cents.

They'll put that thing on sale for 6 bucks and act like they're doing you a favor. And you will never get anyone whose real name you know, and whose ties to the industry cannot be denied, to admit any of this. Because no one wants to get fired. Especially not get fired AND get blacklisted.

But toys are definitely a different beast because, generally, people that buy toys are far more plugged in to the business stuff than general consumers. And even so, I agree with Rick that, even if you think you know the kinds of margins toy companies work off of - Super7 is operating on a whole other level.

I have always been completely serious when I said that I know for a FACT that Super7 can make better toys, for better prices, and still be a successful company that makes profit. They choose not to be better, because Brian Flynn knows you will buy his shit anyway as long as he's the only one that can give it to you.
 
12.50


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Cool to know. Thanks for indulging.

I remember looking at all the margins when I used to work at Toys R Us and Best Buy. It was right there on the floor computer system. So it doesn't surprise me. I'm just woefully out of date. I remember being shocked at the bath both stores took on video game hardware, and since Best buy is discount was cost plus 10%, what I paid for video games and albums was crazy.

I have connections at the corporate head office for Best Buy and every now and then I lean on them to get cables at cost.
 
I think it's been pretty widely available knowledge since at least the PS3 generation that retailers make shitfuckall on game consoles. A few articles were written way back lamenting that retailers just sell them because it's expected, but if they marked them up to make profit over what the console manufacturer wants to get paid, no one would buy them. It's just a way to get people in the store and also not be the shitty store that doesn't sell consoles.

The one that blew my mind years and years ago was learning that gas stations don't make any money selling you gas.
 
I think it's been pretty widely available knowledge since at least the PS3 generation that retailers make shitfuckall on game consoles. A few articles were written way back lamenting that retailers just sell them because it's expected, but if they marked them up to make profit over what the console manufacturer wants to get paid, no one would buy them. It's just a way to get people in the store and also not be the shitty store that doesn't sell consoles.

The one that blew my mind years and years ago was learning that gas stations don't make any money selling you gas.
My first retail was PS1 and Xbox as a kid, and yeah, was a loss then.

That's why you had to add on and sell plans.

Gas stations make sense. That's why they want me to buy junk food.
 
Gas stations make sense. That's why they want me to buy junk food.

It's also why junk food prices at gas stations rose commensurately with the decrease in popularity, and increase in restrictions, on cigarettes. For pretty much the entire '80s and most of the '90s, something like 70% of gas station profits came from cigarettes.
 
I know for a FACT that Super7 can make better toys, for better prices, and still be a successful company that makes profit. They choose not to be better, because Brian Flynn knows you will buy his shit anyway as long as he's the only one that can give it to you.

Unfortunately that is still me. I prefer buying them at Deluxe prices and its clear based on companies like FMF and Boss Fight that good figures can be made in small batches cheaper than S7 is doing them... but they are the only company making figures in the "Classics" style I love and of properties I desperately want.

And here's the thing, I get what you are saying about the price and margins.. But I genuinely like alot of the Ultimates figures and when I see the prices for shit I genuinely hate, like Mezco 1:12 - I don't feel terrible about what I'm paying for Ultimates figures that I very much want.

I would love for the line to shift to a Deluxe+ model maybe at $40 or so that featured new sculpts and another accesory or two. The worst element of Ultimates for me is the silly extra heads I will never use and the plethora of accessories that end up in a bin.

But I still want them. And if I have to pay $65 each to get my Tiger Sharks... I'm going to do it.
 
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I'm going to talk completely out of my ass here, because it's only my perspective with no knowledge of anything happening behind the scenes at Super7.

I find value in something like an action figure is pretty divorced from the cost it takes to make. It's a combination of how much do I want it and how willing am I to pay the price they're asking. Since I'm a middle-aged man in his second childhood, the first answer is "a lot", and because I'm doing pretty well financially, the second answer is usually "yes".

I *wish* Silverhawks Ultimates were better and cheaper, but I wish they were on my shelves more. I'm not mad at anybody for trying to make 10x profit on their stuff, because at the end of the day, that's an amount I'm willing to spend.
 
Unfortunately that is still me. I prefer buying them at Deluxe prices and its clear based on companies like FMF and Boss Fight that good figures can be made in small batches cheaper than S7 is doing them... but they are the only company making figures in the "Classics" style I love and of properties I desperately want.

I imagine most of us bear some guilt for S7 getting away with the way they do things. I bought Rocker Leo and Punker Don at full price and praised the HELL out of the former, despite knowing already how much Super7 was overcharging.


I would love for the line to shift to a Deluxe+ model maybe at $40 or so that featured new sculpts and another accesory or two. The worst element of Ultimates for me is the silly extra heads I will never use and the plethora of accessories that end up in a bin.
I would argue they should continue making Ultimates as they are but charge Deluxe prices. That's kind of more in line with the cost-to-profit ratio other toy companies are using. Sort've.
And I will always argue that there IS value in all those extra parts because it costs VERY little (you'd be amazed) to include them, but they create appeal for customers that want different things. You may only pose a figure a certain way with certain accessories, but those other options may be the deciding factor for -other- people buying them.


But I still want them. And if I have to pay $65 each to get my Tiger Sharks... I'm going to do it.
Look, the reality is that if Super7 made a decent go at a King Lionheart right now at 65 USD - I would buy it. I would buy it fully understanding I'm being a hypocrite. That's how much I want that one figure. So I totally get it.



I find value in something like an action figure is pretty divorced from the cost it takes to make. It's a combination of how much do I want it and how willing am I to pay the price they're asking. Since I'm a middle-aged man in his second childhood, the first answer is "a lot", and because I'm doing pretty well financially, the second answer is usually "yes".
Totally valid. You don't -have- to care if Super7 is charging far more than they need to. You don't have to care about anything companies do behind the scenes. I'd argue, in fact, most people don't. That's why we still buy slave-chocolate and drink water stolen from indigenous peoples. That's why people buy 100,000 dollar cars that cost the exact same to manufacture as 50,000 dollar cars. If the item is meeting a certain need for you, then everything else can often become background noise.

It bothers me that Super7 insists on a ludicrous profit margin for their products for a lot of reasons that aren't worth getting into. But I think what actually bothers me more is Brian's public insistence that it MUST be this way. He implies that the profit margins aren't good, and every minor thing makes the prices go up because oh poor little Super7 couldn't POSSIBLY absorb this or that cost without going out of business. It's the blatant dishonesty that upsets me more than anything.


However, I'll offer you one reason to care that you can consider: If you like a thing, you probably want the thing to continue. When a company is greedy beyond measure and stupidly prices its own products where only a very select few can afford it, then that item either becomes an extreme luxury item or stops existing. In this case, I don't -think- cheaply-made action figures are ever going to become a status symbol for people with more money than sense. So that is out.
So what's probably actually going to happen is eventually these figures will be priced in a way that most folks can't afford them and Super7 just stops making them (while lamenting that there's nothing they could have done and it's really actually the fault of the customers for not just buying them no matter what). If Super7 prices themselves out of the market, then YOU don't get them anymore either. So it's worth, in my opinion, considering whether or not an item is actually worth what's being charged for it - not just whether or not you can personally afford it.

Or not. I can't make you care about stuff.
 
@PantherCult I don't think there is anything wrong in wanting what you want. I think Brian at S7 is actually hoping there's a lot of you out there and I think there are to a degree. Personally, I think the modern-retro style can work, and works best with figures like MOTU, Thundercats, and TMNT, which have vintage toy parallels that these figures are making homages to. All my S7 is TMNT, and I don't really need any more articulation in them than they have, because they are essentially on my shelf to represent the classic toys of my youth.

However, the value was never there for me, which is why I bought all mine for sub $30. But there was a ton of alternate TMNT being made that it was easy to say no. Thundercats and Silverhawks, not so much.

Where the wheels start to fall off of Ultimates is when they leave classic toy IPs and move on to things like Disney. For $55, their Robin Hood should have been at least NECA quality, and not like, possibly sub-Mattel quality. There's no classic toy aesthetic to hide behind there. It's either a modern action figure or... or what?

I wish I knew more about factory toy pricing, like, how much would it cost to upgrade that Robin Hood to NECA level. Functional joints, fully painted, able to hold its bow, etc. $1 per unit? $5 per unit? Hell, I would have probably gotten it for $60 if it was NECA level because I love that movie. But I wound up canceling an Amazon order of it for $35 because it just looked unexciting.
 
Where the wheels start to fall off of Ultimates is when they leave classic toy IPs and move on to things like Disney. For $55, their Robin Hood should have been at least NECA quality, and not like, possibly sub-Mattel quality. There's no classic toy aesthetic to hide behind there. It's either a modern action figure or... or what?

So I actually completely agree with this. The only Ultimates I buy are those that can fit with my sword and sorcery shelf -with my existing collection and I always thought the oexpansion into Disney and Simpsons and etc was risky.

Heck, even the Hasbro stuff... Transformers, G.I. Joe, Power Rangers didn't tempt me because there were better, cheaper options available.
 
Everyone regurgitates company lies when they're on camera. Because everyone needs their job more than their integrity. No slight to anyone. It's just true. Integrity doesn't feed you. I certainly wouldn't chalk it up to any kind of actual loyalty. I've spoken with enough people that work at those types of companies and let me tell you; I've never spoken to even one of them that didn't have some shit to say if they knew it couldn't get back to their employer that they said it.



I would argue that the margins on most PRODUCTS would surprise many people that have never been on the production side of consumerism. That Rubbermaid 18 Gallon tote that you can get from Walmart for like 8 dollars? It costs about 12-15 cents to manufacture, and is 'in the door' at Walmart for under 40 cents.

They'll put that thing on sale for 6 bucks and act like they're doing you a favor. And you will never get anyone whose real name you know, and whose ties to the industry cannot be denied, to admit any of this. Because no one wants to get fired. Especially not get fired AND get blacklisted.

But toys are definitely a different beast because, generally, people that buy toys are far more plugged in to the business stuff than general consumers. And even so, I agree with Rick that, even if you think you know the kinds of margins toy companies work off of - Super7 is operating on a whole other level.

I have always been completely serious when I said that I know for a FACT that Super7 can make better toys, for better prices, and still be a successful company that makes profit. They choose not to be better, because Brian Flynn knows you will buy his shit anyway as long as he's the only one that can give it to you.
That's human nature though isn't it?

I guarantee that, in private at least, there are employees talking shit about you, your company and how it is run. Again it is human nature. I was under no illusions that the same thing was happening with my employees when I was running my company. Hell some of my customers were doing it as well I'm sure considering some of the comments I would get. My favourites always centred around how much it costs to make my product (it was a catering company) and how much they thought they could make the food for based solely on what I presume was their idea of how much food costs at the store and how they make it at home. Apparently no thought given to all the other costs (overhead) like taxes, rent, utilities, payroll, etc. etc. (and of course profit so I could pay myself eventually).

As to margins, I think everyone should take what a company, and public analysts in media, say with a huge helping of salt. As you said there is no benefit for analysts to not tow the industry line lest they get blackballed, and companies have no interest in being truthful about margins because an informed customer would probably not pay the retail prices if they knew the true costs.
 
That also makes sense why I don't impulse buy junk food there.

Interesting.
It's also how the movie theatre industry works as well. Before becoming a business owner I was a manager at a movie theatre chain for 6 years. The VAST majority of profit for a theatre comes from concessions, which is why they are so ridiculously overpriced. Depending on the movie (at least back in the early 2000s) a theatre could make as little as 5%-10% of the ticket price on a new blockbuster release for the first couple weeks (month). The longer a movie went the better the deal for the theatre. Usually (not always) the best split was 50-50 on tickets at the end of a movie's run.

So where to make money when the megaplex's rent alone was hundreds of thousands of dollars a month? Food. And let me tell you back then the margin on concessions was crazy. Well at least the popcorn and pop. Paying dollars for popcorn and pop that cost us pennies (why do you think free refills was a thing?) was every capitalist's dream. The margins weren't as good for packaged stuff and cooked stuff obviously.

I remember friends, family and the general public being so excited when I would get them in for free to see a movie because I knew as long as they paid for food the theatre was making nothing but profit. Of course the free movies were recorded (but less than half the time) to make it look like we were tracking it for the distributors, but......
 
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