Continuing my MCU rewatch

Damien said:
And only when it's relevant. I don't think Cap needs to explain why Thor didn't help him beat up Batroc, ya' know?
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I think that's a good compromise line. If it's a real big deal, the audience might deserve a "is Iron Man nearby?" question. I'm not sure exactly at what level my personal line would be at, though. There's an argument that if I thought SHIELD were compromised and they were about to murder 7,000 people, I'd call Tony, but I also didn't feel left out that he didn't do that.

I can actually only think of two times it was invoked, and both times it was used as the "reject the call" stage of the hero's journey: Ant-Man telling Hank he should call the Avengers instead of recruiting him, and Spider-Man asking Fury why he couldn't call on the Avengers in Far from Home. Because everybody else seems past that point in their journeys, it might come across as the character suggesting he can't handle it. Just spitballing why we might not have gotten those moments when, like, Tony and Rhodey had to rescue the crew of Air Force One AND the president but only had one suit of armor.

But moving forward in the Infinity Saga, I don't think that's an actual issue. Not only are the Avengers pretty much disbanded after Civil War, but the remaining movies are new heroes (Dr. Strange and Black Panther), low-stakes personal stories (Ant-Man 2), out in space (Guardians of Space and Ragnarok) or *do* invoke other Avengers (Iron Man 4 Homecoming). Looking back, I think Iron Man 3 and Winter Soldier were the only movies where calling on other Avengers even would have been consideration. Looks like I'm arguing about a non-thing.
 
Fletch said:
I think that's a good compromise line. If it's a real big deal, the audience might deserve a "is Iron Man nearby?" question. I'm not sure exactly at what level my personal line would be at, though. There's an argument that if I thought SHIELD were compromised and they were about to murder 7,000 people, I'd call Tony, but I also didn't feel left out that he didn't do that.

I can actually only think of two times it was invoked, and both times it was used as the "reject the call" stage of the hero's journey: Ant-Man telling Hank he should call the Avengers instead of recruiting him, and Spider-Man asking Fury why he couldn't call on the Avengers in Far from Home. Because everybody else seems past that point in their journeys, it might come across as the character suggesting he can't handle it. Just spitballing why we might not have gotten those moments when, like, Tony and Rhodey had to rescue the crew of Air Force One AND the president but only had one suit of armor.

But moving forward in the Infinity Saga, I don't think that's an actual issue. Not only are the Avengers pretty much disbanded after Civil War, but the remaining movies are new heroes (Dr. Strange and Black Panther), low-stakes personal stories (Ant-Man 2), out in space (Guardians of Space and Ragnarok) or *do* invoke other Avengers (Iron Man 4 Homecoming). Looking back, I think Iron Man 3 and Winter Soldier were the only movies where calling on other Avengers even would have been consideration. Looks like I'm arguing about a non-thing.
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All excellent points.

I think what is or isn't a big deal is definitely relative. I feel like the audience should be smart enough to know that, for example, maybe Daredevil can't handle the same level of threat as Thor - so Thor isn't going to run around looking for DD's help, and DD doesn't usually interact with threats that Thor can help with. We also have to be cognizant of superhero arrogance; does Tony ever really think he NEEDS anyone's help? Hell, we can even allow for time-sensitivity. If there's no time/opportunity to put out a call for help, you're probably stuck dealing with this on your own whether you want to or not.

But definitely like.. if all of New York is being attacked by an army of hyper-tech aliens, it would be weird for Spider-Man to be like 'I got this.'

Something I really liked about Winter Soldier is that I didn't really ever wonder why no one else got involved. Both because we already had a team-up going on, and because the team handling it felt like they mostly -could- handle it and were, in fact, the best people to handle it. At the same time, the movie mixed trust issues with everything moving at a good clip, and I couldn't even tell you a good time Cap would have had to call for an assist or who he should definitely trust TO help him. It was about as perfect as you can get for there being a ton of background rationale for why Steve doesn't give Tony or Hawkeye a shout.
 
It feels like we'll never get an "X-Men playing baseball on an off day" story in the MCU. I'm trying to remember - is the party in Age of Ultron the only time we see any of these characters just chilling around one another, and enjoying each other as friends/colleagues? Natasha/Steve in Endgame before Scott rings the doorbell? Maybe the GOTG Holiday Special? The short with Bruce and Thor not getting called for Civil War?
 
I think the scene with Vision making paprikash for Wanda counts. But yeah, that party scene was a master class in character presentation. It's a one-act summary of all the characters' personalities and how they deal with stress.

I'd say more writers should have that in their toolbox, but I'd fear we'd get flooded with copycat scenes like all the up-and-comers* in the 90s trying to copy Tarantino's "the thing about McDonald's" scenes without recognizing the point of them.

* like me
 
I was thinking about Wanda and Vision because so much of their relationship was added after, through WandaVision. That cooking scene is an example of a chill scene, but it's so intrinsic to the plot - of the film but also of their relationship - I didn't want to count it.

Dark World: I forgot and since no one mentioned it: the reason Hogun was barely in Dark World was because the actor wasn't available for more than a day or two. He was shooting something else. And the reason Thor's hair looked so good, as noted, was because that was all his own hair - that's when Hemsworth reached the perfect length and then chopped it off.

Another fun fact: Hemsworth's look drives me nuts in the first Thor movie for a reason that doesn't seem to bug anyone else - they dyed his eyebrows blonde. No idea why they thought that was necessary to make that natural blonde and buff man look more like Thor, but so glad they stopped that.
 
Still thinking about chill scenes in the MCU and remembered a big one - most of my favorite scenes in She-Hulk were just characters talking - Jen and Bruce, Jen and Matt, Jen and Nikki, Madisynn and Wongerz. The entire vibe of that show was just spending time with characters and exploring the situation and that's when the show really worked best.

PS: Saw Madisynn herself, Patty Guggenheim, in a show recently, and she was, not surprisingly, fantastic. :)
 
Schizm said:
a reason that doesn't seem to bug anyone else - they dyed his eyebrows blonde.
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You are not alone in this. Generously maybe they were trying for an extreme Vanir mythical look? Instead I just couldn't tell when he was surprised.
 
Doctor Strange

I guess I wasn't very impressed by this movie when I first saw it, because I don't know that I've ever gone back and watched it fully since. Turns out I didn't remember it very accurately.
  1. The opening sequence really sets the tone, starting with an attack on an ancient library that opens up into modern New York City. It's a fun contrast. The fight itself was kind of boring, once you accept the kaleidoscope buildings and sparkling karate magic, but it's a good introduction.

  2. I do roll my eyes at Strange's introduction scene, though. The idea that he'd perform brain surgery while be-bopping to music and playing music trivia games is pretty forced. Especially since it's followed by a much more exciting surgery scene where he has to manually extract a bullet while mocking the other doctor. We definitely could've done with just the one scene.

  3. I really like the modern update to Strange's car crash. Instead of driving drunk, it's the slightly more sympathetic (and certainly more relatable) driving distracted. There's even an advisory at the end of the credits saying not to do it. The sequence does double duty as a character building moment too, showing that he's both committed to his role as a surgeon, but also committed to only being a celebrity surgeon.

  4. I'm one of the millions of fans who thought this would start several years in the past, justifying why Stephen Strange was on Hydra's hit list in Winter Soldier. Even here, it seems like the Air Force colonel who'd broken his spine in an experimental robot suit could have been a reference to Justin Hammer's failed test shown in Iron Man 2. Of course, we were also just coming off of Rhodey breaking his back in Civil War, so that was a leading theory too. In any case, there's a plaque in Strange's apartment that's dated 2016 (the year this movie came out) so it's all moot. It just took him only a year to become a master sorcerer and Hydra's algorithm was *really* advanced.

  5. I appreciate the time they spend showing Strange's descent. He blames everybody but himself and spends all his money on failed experiments until he's finally lost everything and everyone. The other doctor refusing to help him to protect his own reputation was so cutting.

  6. Benedict Cumberbatch does a really good job with Dr. Strange. There's a whole rainbow of performances in his life story shown here, and he's pretty convincing in all of them. From the heights of his hubris to the depths of his despair. I'm not super-crazy for his costume. Again it feels over-designed, which I guess is kind of an MCU thing at this point, but I really do like the flourishes and asymmetry of the Cloak of Levitation. Mads Mikkelson is equally good as Kaecillius. The man gives a compelling performance in a monologue where he can't even move his body. He's pretty captivating and does a decent pitch for his motivations. I wish he'd gotten a little bit more personal, showing how losing his family drove him to find a way to stop death, rather than making me connect those dots on my own. Oh, and that cracked eye effect was so good.

  7. The Ancient One was always going to be a challenge. You're either playing into old wise Asian stereotypes or your whitewashing one of the few powerful Asian characters in the Marvel library. Tilda Swinton did a good job in the role, but I'm still not convinced they made the right choice. Chiwetel Ejiofor's Mordo was fine. Based on his comics role, I was surprised at how supportive he was of Strange joining Kamar-Taj. They didn't do a very good job of planting any seeds about future conflicts with Strange like I thought they should have, just leaving it to a final scene and an end credit scene for him to suddenly break ranks. Benedict Wong is memorable as Wong, and I think his strong, silent screen presence played really well opposite Cumberbatch. I'd thought it a nice promotion for Wong from house servant to equal wizard, but I was surprised to actually never see him do any magic in this movie. On its own, he could just be one of many non-sorcerer support staff that help Kamar-Taj function. That's obviously not the route they went, but it's interesting that I just assumed he was a sorcerer coming out of this first movie.

  8. The tour of the Ditko-verse was really great. The hand dimension being especially disturbing. I feel like it went on a little long, though. This doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should grow bored of.

  9. Lord I hate the existence of the sling rings. It's so weird that there's just this one type of magic that requires everyone carry a little, mass-produced token to do. Especially since it's clear it exists only to create plot points by taking away someone's ring. And what does "sling ring" even mean? Is it just because it rhymes? In English?

  10. They seem to call him "Mister" Strange on purpose just to needle him. I love it.

  11. Oh shit, that *was* Daniel Drumm in the foyer. Brother Voodoo confirmed.

  12. I'd remembered the magic of this movie being just sparkle karate and kaleidoscope buildings, but the astral fight in the hospital, the Mirror Dimension chase, and the reverse time fight are all great and unique set pieces. It's still a little underwhelming that all of their fights are just punching and stabbing, but at least the environments are interesting.

  13. This movie themed HARD on the idea of time. From Strange's watch collection to Kaecillius' villainizing of time to Strange using time as a weapon against Dormammu. But I also liked that Strange overcame his fear of failure enough to use that to outwit Dormammu in the end. "I can't win, but I can fail forever" was a pretty good character moment for him.
Long story short, I liked this movie way more this time through than I remember liking it in the past. I'd remembered it as a sort of Tony Stark knock-off with maybe two magical effects, but it's actually way more than that. The fights are somehow unimaginative, with just glyph shields and whatever smoke knives the zealots were using, but the settings of those fights kept them from feeling too samey. And they let Strange grow into becoming a hero, with him even trying to flee from the zealots at a couple points. There was a pretty good character story packed in there.

I think the movie doesn't quite do enough to add magic into the MCU. Thor describes Asgard as being a place where magic and science are one, and here the Ancient One uses similar comparisons to spells being programs. Magic as just another form of science feels like them taking the safe path in what has, so far, been a fully sci-fi cinematic universe.
 
No notes, really. I think I pretty much agree with all of your feelings about this film. I do enjoy it quite a bit. And, to build on a point you made in there, I think the 'final fight' with Dormmy is pretty much my favorite final fight in the MCU. I loved that 'I can fail forever' ending. So good.
 
Yeah. I loved the 3rd act fight. It was an about face on Marvel 3rd acts to that point and very welcome.
 
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2

Took me a while to make it through this one. It's not bad, much of it is very good, but I found I kind of didn't care much about it and had to keep forcing myself back to it. Not sure if that's a flaw in the movie itself or some sort of MCU burn-out in the back half, but I had to push myself to finish it.

  1. I almost forgot this was supposed to be our introduction to Baby Groot. Of course everybody had seen him in promotional material up to then, but still, him dancing around was his first scene. It never quite registered with me that this was a different character from the first Groot, though. Maybe if they'd called him Groot Jr. it would've stuck better and sold Groot Sr.'s sacrifice in the first movie.

  2. That was close. Drax almost did something useful. Imagine if he'd been hanging out the back of the ship blasting Sovereign ships the whole time instead of just the one before they get cornered by the rest of the fleet and have to be saved by Ego.

  3. What a strange place to add Stalone to the MCU. I like that they're acknowledging the original Guardians from the comics, but what was the thought here? You get Stalone and decide he's just going to cameo?

  4. I think I eventually come to like Mantis, but her introduction here is really clunky. "I was raised alone, is this what smiling is?" Bleh. Between her, Drax and Baby Groot, there are, like, three children in this group. That's half the team and it gets old super-fast. Still, I have no objection to Pom Klementieff in the role. I don't know her from anything else, though.

  5. Fun fact: The guy right there in the center? That's my buddy Thom. You've probably seen him getting shot up by Captain Archer, Jack Bauer, and Jod Na Wood. He's a cool dude.
    Screenshot-2025-06-27-03-30-10.png


  6. I really like the scene between Mantis and Drax where she senses the full depth of his sadness at losing his family. It's a shame it doesn't actually lead to anything. It was about to deliver the plot twist of Ego's true plan, but then they get interrupted by Gamora who goes on to find out on her own.

  7. They do a pretty good job of showing how vile and dangerous the mutineers are, partially by showing them deep sixing the loyal crew into space, but mostly by how they torment Baby Groot. And while I'm here, let me compliment this movie as a whole in the way it can use a gag to actually reveal character. Groot's search for a "fin" was funny and all, but it allows Kraglin's "I didn't mean to do a mutiny" moment. For the most part, the comedy doesn't interrupt the drama, it emphasizes it. I wish Taika had learned *that* lesson.

  8. Everybody gets a buddy in this movie, but the pairing I enjoy the most is Rocket and Yondu. Their similarities and contrast play so well together, and they each see through the other's public faces so easily. I enjoyed every scene they had together. Compare that to Gamora's scenes bonding with Nebula. I mentioned in my review of GotGv1 that I wasn't impressed by Karen Gillan's performance as Nebula, and she's not any better here. Especially since they're now expecting her to carry the emotional weight of a neglected sister.

  9. Everybody in that Dairy Queen? Dead.

  10. Oh, Peter's mask breaks here. I know it's key to why Yondu has to sacrifice himself at the end, but I'll have to keep it in mind for Vol. 3.

  11. Honestly, the best Drax scene is him running with the unconscious Mantis, trying to keep them from getting crushed by the toppling ship, and then holding her aloft so she isn't sucked into the ground with him. I love that moment so much it kind of redeems his whole worthless character up to now. In fact, the scene soon after where the crew struggles to accept that Quill's not making it out is a great scene for everyone involved. From Rocket's "I can only afford to lose one friend today" after zapping Gamora, to Drax repeated shouts of "Rocket, where's Quill!?!" Even Kraglin, who didn't even have any lines, acted the shit out of it. Oscars for everyone.

  12. This movie did a really good job of building to Peter and Gamora's relationship. It didn't feel shortcuted at all, had some good will they/won't they diversions, and eventually settled on the Unspoken Thing that tied back to the start of the movie. It's easy to get this kind of thing wrong and just cheat it a bit, but I'm really convinced they're a couple by the end.

  13. So many post-credit scenes. Of them all, I remember being the most excited for the promise of Adam Warlock. He was a key character in Thanos' Infinity stories that I was glad they were able to squeeze him in before the big showdown. But, well, yeah...
This is a real 50/50 movie for me. Peter's stories were great, with the discovery of who his dad was (as well as who his real dad was) and romance with Gamora being really well done. And like I said, Rocket and Yondu were amazing in every scene they shared. But then you've got Drax and Mantis just being babies at each other and a one-dimension brooding Nebula, and it just kind of breaks even.

I think if they'd given Drax some actions of consequence, like shooting down the Sovereign pursuit ships and actually seeing Mantis tell him about Ego's plan (instead of it happening off screen) it would've turned the character around for me. And I don't really hate that Gamora and Nebula had their family reunion story, I just don't think Gillan carried her side of it.
 
For me... I think the biggest issue I have with vol 1 and 2 is I don't enjoy when a character laughs excessively at something I don't find that funny. Rocket and especially Drax are guilty of it, and I sympathize with Rocket a little too much so Drax end up being my least favorite. Thankfully, IW, the Holiday Special, and vol 3 really made me love him.

But my favorite guardian across the three movies is Nebula and I sympathize with her harder in each one, as well as Endgame. I don't know what it says about me that she and Rocket are my favorites but I seriously fail to see your issue with Gillan. I know we all have our own tastes and perspectives etc, but just really surprised you have such a different reaction to her from me.
 
See, I love Gillan in Dr. Who. She played a whole range of feelings so I know she's got the talent. But maybe she's never brooded before. Her Nebula just feels kind of staged and performative. She's even doing a voice. Maybe that's it. Maybe Nebula herself is just trying to act like she thinks Thanos wants her to act. I dunno, she just comes across as ill-suited to the character.

Two scenes that happened almost back-to-back was her "I just wanted a sister" scene and Yondu's "because I AM you" scene, and it's a very unflattering contrast.
 
Right, I get you see it that way but I just do not. I watched the whole fight then argument between Nebula and Gamora with an entirely different reaction from yours.

Also, trivia! She's doing a combination of Clint Eastwood and Marilyn Monroe with the voice.
 
There's the problem. I would've gone with Peter Weller and that Holmes woman from Theranos.
 
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