Action Force and Valaverse

I’m generally disinterested in “real people” action figures; famously, I prefer non-actor/non-live action versions of characters from media properties over their live action counterparts and also tend to prefer live action characters in masks/heavy makeup to “actor likeness”. Were I to have Nazis or Nazi leadership in my collections, they wouldn’t be for “display”, but rather for play, by which I mean “having them get beaten up by the good guys”, same as how I use the Classified cops and Special Forces guys.
I do have figures, statues and other items depicting Vlad III Basarab, aka Vlad Tępęs, aka Dracula, all over my house. He was a butchering piece of shit that I do *not* admire, but I am fascinated by him. I also have a 12” Sideshow Red Skull on prominent display, and I frequently wear my t-shirt with that banned cover of Joker and Batgirl recreating Killing Joke iconography: I won’t defend it with my whole chest because it’s a nasty piece of work, but it is my favorite individual issue of a comic ever and has been since I was like ten or so.

This may be a bit of a different story for me personally, since “wallowing in the psychology of evil” is kind of my thing, personally and professionally.

I’ve also got a giant collection of occult books, objects d’art associated with black magic and demonology, and just generally a lot of way grimmer and darker shit than folks would expect of even me. I heavily censor how “into this shit” I am when I am in polite company, because no matter how Addams Family-eccentric folks perceive me to be, some of my special interests (and the depths I plunge down those rabbit holes) would definitely make most people uncomfortable without a LOT of context.
 
JakeEkiss said:
IIRC there's a whole army in Warhammer that's basically WWII Germans de-nazi-fied and with more tubes attached. So it's certainly a popular way to take things.
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The Death Korps of Krieg are very fantasy German-coded. With the name and the very general shape and style of the uniforms, as well as the gas masks and gear (trench fighters with shovels and flamethrowers and shit). But their backstory/world-building is entirely its own thing. It's not even de-Nazi-fied so much as 'has nothing do with WWII Germany except aesthetics.'

They're cool, too. Come from a miserable hellscape world where everything sucks and they aren't afraid to die so they do all the worst trench fighting and all that.
 
I think the only way I'd have a Hitler on my shelf would be if he came as a static-posed statue accessory to a Captain America figure where you could recreate the cover:

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He would have to always be in this pose, like a mini statue, so that no weirdo's could put him in better positions. I don't know if I would buy it, probably not, but this is just about the only way that I personally would ever own something that had his likeness.


AceofKnaves said:
I do have figures, statues and other items depicting Vlad III Basarab, aka Vlad Tępęs, aka Dracula, all over my house. He was a butchering piece of shit that I do *not* admire, but I am fascinated by him.
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For me personally, and only for me, stuff like Vlad doesn't bother me a bit. He was a real guy who did really atrocious things, but he's so far back in the annals of history that it almost seems ok? As if he were more fantasy than history. Maybe I'm weird like that, but guys like Vlad, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, even Billy the Kid - I'd own all of those because they seem more like comic book villains now than real-world ones. And perhaps that's because guys like Genghis killed so damn many that it just seems unfathomable, almost not-real, so I guess he gets a pass lol Also, for many of histories great bad guys we have movies and media that portray them. We don't make movies about Hitler, except for when he's portrayed as the bad guy. He doesn't get to be the protagonist, and so much of my life revolves around film that maybe that colors it a bit for me.

That's a very long-winded way to say, "I am also fascinated by these guys in ancient history." lol


AceofKnaves said:
I frequently wear my t-shirt with that banned cover of Joker and Batgirl recreating Killing Joke iconography: I won’t defend it with my whole chest because it’s a nasty piece of work, but it is my favorite individual issue of a comic ever and has been since I was like ten or so.

This may be a bit of a different story for me personally, since “wallowing in the psychology of evil” is kind of my thing, personally and professionally.
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I understand why so many are against The Killing Joke, but I don't particularly share it. I don't celebrate the "women in refrigerators" trope (ironically, that came about much later than TKJ), but the story was never meant to be canon originally so it was an "anything goes" sort of tale. At least something great came out of it (Oracle), even if DC eventually flushed it all away with the New 52.
 
TheRealSmallville said:
understand why so many are against The Killing Joke, but I don't particularly share it.
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Same.

TheRealSmallville said:
I don't celebrate the "women in refrigerators" trope (ironically, that came about much later than TKJ), but the story was never meant to be canon originally so it was an "anything goes" sort of tale.
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I love that it is canon.
😬
I definitely liked the Joker before, but my true love affair with the Clown Prince begins with TKJ. I definitely believe I would have “aged out” of comic books if my uncle wasn’t regularly bringing me stuff like TKJ, TDKR, Death in the Family, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth, etc. I definitely grew INTO liking the lighter, funnier, breezier elements of comics, but that was WAY later, like LATE teens and into my 20s. I was on my way out and into “serious” stuff like adult-ages horror and such by the time I was 9, but those more mature Bat-books in the late 80s kept me plugged into comics until I could mellow out.
It occurs to me that even the “kid” stuff I hung onto at that point, I hung onto at its darkest and most serious points: MotU? The minicomics and the good parts of the 87 film, didn’t come back to the cartoons until my 20s. GI Joe? I clung to the extra-villainous bad guys and also had gritty ninja head-canon with PTSD Snake-Eyes on solo missions; and the comic of course. Spidey? Current, McFarlanesque stuff. X-Men? Wolverine by Hama. Batman? The 90s was THE place to want “more mature” Bat-stuff, the cartoon very much included. Even horror, I was dialing back to Hammer and Argento and Romero and basically anything but the happy-meal slashers of the time, and also reading Anne Rice and Stephen King and 19th century gothic lit and turning my nose up for the most part at Goosebumps and Fear Street and such.

I think it was really hard for me to “just have fun” with kids properties until I was actually an adult. As a kid, I needed it to *matter*, probably because my mom spent so much time telling me it didn’t. Like I had to *justify* the things I loved: “this is SERIOUS!” “this is LITERATURE” “this is an ART FILM” “this is ACTUALLY FOR ADULTS!”

Sigh.

It was such a fucking relief when it was mostly “OK” to embrace Batman when I was 11. But by the time being a “nerd” became “cool” (or at least acceptable) I was already an adult who had never gone through a “hide your interests!” phase.
 
Yeah, I think the tough part is there's so many fuckin weirdos that if you happen to have something that is mostly associated with creeps, you're gonna get lumped in. And then there's the people pretending they don't see the problem. (See also: a fucking BIZARRE trend in the book world of people showing off their sprayed-edges copies of Mein Kampf. I'm not kidding, it's become a thing. So while a historian may have a copy, sure, a copy on your shelf already kinda lumps you in with the weirdos. As would a Hitler doll, I guess.

JakeEkiss said:
For a very specific definition of the word "limit" ;)
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Hey, could be worse, at least I have resisted the siren call of Games Workshop!
JakeEkiss said:
This is why I avoid Red Skull. A few cosplayers are a little too into that one.
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I've mentioned it before, but there's one guy at one convention I work every year who ALWAYS dresses up as Red Skull and it ALWAYS feels like he's telegraphing something. It's like a socially acceptable excuse to have your dick out in public or something.
 
TheRealSmallville said:
I understand why so many are against The Killing Joke
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I slice this one very finely. TKJ as a thing, a story within the larger comics history, I have no strong feelings on. It's got good points and bad points. I don't think it's as bad as Moore seems to think now, and I don't think it's as good as most other folks do. That said, the figure of that specific outfit I couldn't have on my shelf because it's a little too close to just being "sexual assault Joker'. It's not just any look for him, it's a look specific to a particular scene of violence and predation that is a lot more real world than him hitting people with laughing toxin.

And to be clear, I don't automatically make associations about anybody else with a different line on these things. I deeply loathe the idea that you can know something about someone's soul just from a toy they buy or a movie they like or whatever. This is entirely a me thing.

I think some folks you can get a vibe from them, but typically it's a lot more than what action figures they buy. Lousy people often loudly telegraph how lousy they are.
docsilence said:
Hey, could be worse, at least I have resisted the siren call of Games Workshop!
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For now... ;)
docsilence said:
I've mentioned it before, but there's one guy at one convention I work every year who ALWAYS dresses up as Red Skull and it ALWAYS feels like he's telegraphing something. It's like a socially acceptable excuse to have your dick out in public or something.
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And it was talking to you about that which made me realize that's where my Red Skull thing comes from. I've seen dudes like that as well.
 
I don't have an issue with real world people as action figures.

I don't have a big preference for them either though. If I like the person, or the character they are playing (Sgt. Slaughter, William "Refridgerator" Perry, certain wrestlers, etc.) I am fine with getting a figure of them.

However if I don't like them I am more than happy to pass on them.

Hitler is a category beyond that. I don't know of any situation where I would be willing to buy a Hitler figure, even to destroy it or use it in the most degrading ways possible.
 
The Killing Joke is definitely more nuanced than yes or no. I read it. I like Alan Moore. I have a copy of it. I don't want a toy of that version of the Joker though. And stuff like the Killing Joke - or hell, the Joker in general, or any character - there's that line between appreciating the product and making it your whole personality. And certain characters definitely have folks who lean more toward making it their whole personality.

(Like Orson Krennic is a Nazi stand-in, full stop, but I've met some Orson Krennic cosplayers and haven't felt the need to stand on the other side of the room. I have definitely met SOME Joker cosplayers I have cross the room to avoid. And Red Skulls, especially the ones who lean in on the Nazi uniform look instead of the green jumpsuit and yellow gloves. Though to be fair I I've also crossed a street to avoid certain Deadpool cosplayers too, so it's not just villains, it's people who feel creepy. Someone in a Nazi costume I would, for sure.)
 
docsilence said:
The Killing Joke is definitely more nuanced than yes or no. I read it. I like Alan Moore. I have a copy of it. I don't want a toy of that version of the Joker though. And stuff like the Killing Joke - or hell, the Joker in general, or any character - there's that line between appreciating the product and making it your whole personality. And certain characters definitely have folks who lean more toward making it their whole personality.

(Like Orson Krennic is a Nazi stand-in, full stop, but I've met some Orson Krennic cosplayers and haven't felt the need to stand on the other side of the room. I have definitely met SOME Joker cosplayers I have cross the room to avoid. And Red Skulls, especially the ones who lean in on the Nazi uniform look instead of the green jumpsuit and yellow gloves. Though to be fair I I've also crossed a street to avoid certain Deadpool cosplayers too, so it's not just villains, it's people who feel creepy. Someone in a Nazi costume I would, for sure.)
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Time also changes things as well.

I mean Disney has all but cut out the Nazi's from any Marvel media and outside of serious projects most media avoids directly showing them or their symbols.

However it wasn't that long ago that some media had no qualms about showing Nazis and the swastika openly during their productions. Granted a lot of that was comedy, but still there wasn't the same fear around the portrayals of Nazis. I mean I recently watched skits of the Carol Burnett show with full Nazi costumes (swastikas and all). Hogan's Heroes, pretty much any and all Mel Brooks productions.

So yeah time has changed our society's view about portraying Nazis in media to where they are pretty much avoided unless absolutely necessary to the story.

I guess it all depends on the people and the people involved in the production. Along with the fans. Look at the upcoming Michael Jackson movie. Is it really appropriate to do a movie based on him that covers what happened to him for sympathy, but stops well short of the time where he was involved with kids? Do we give it a pass? The list of famous people is long for which that could apply as well.

As for fictional characters it is tougher. I think fictional characters like the Joker are fine with problematic stories. However that could be said about most media from the past. I mean how many shows with reruns get trigger warnings because sensibilities have changed? I have recently been watching reruns of The Rockford Files, All in the Family and Charles in Charge. They all have trigger warnings in front of them for insensitive content (according to today's standards). Hell even the most recent of recent shows, like the Big Bang Theory, get dissected for problematic content.

I think it is tough to say something is completely off limits but I also understand that something, or someone, fictional or not can be problematic to the point of not wanting to interact with them.
 
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