Marvel Legends Gamerverse

Stoopid_Sandwich said:
That was a major part of my gripes when it came to Hickman’s run is that he set up the initial stakes to be so high when he kills off the entire team thanks to the sentinels, but in the next panel we see Charles Xavier prancing around a bunch of eggs that are hatching out clones of his team like this is something out of The Wizard of Oz, and then immediately after that, all the mutants are living in a hippie commune and somehow they are prepping for the inevitable Phalanx takeover 3000 years from now.
Click to expand...
I realize this is almost certainly not what happened, but that combined with the stuff we see of Moira in those first books lead me to the assumption that the end was going to be a hard reset. You'd have this big adventure with all these wild elements, and then at some point Moira resets one last time and we come back to something with a lot of those elements, but with some (the resurrections and such) being taken out of the toybox while putting some of the old stuff back in. I assumed the story would leave off with a permanently dead Moira, revealing that in her last life she is a human because her mutant gene has burned out, and that would round out most of what we knew from previous X-Men continuity, but she'd somehow seeded info from her last however many lives that lets the current crew avoid the fate the rest of the story set up.

Like I said, I'm sure that's not actually what happened, and that's fine. My head canon is better anyway.
 
JakeEkiss said:
I realize this is almost certainly not what happened, but that combined with the stuff we see of Moira in those first books lead me to the assumption that the end was going to be a hard reset. You'd have this big adventure with all these wild elements, and then at some point Moira resets one last time and we come back to something with a lot of those elements, but with some (the resurrections and such) being taken out of the toybox while putting some of the old stuff back in. I assumed the story would leave off with a permanently dead Moira, revealing that in her last life she is a human because her mutant gene has burned out, and that would round out most of what we knew from previous X-Men continuity, but she'd somehow seeded info from her last however many lives that lets the current crew avoid the fate the rest of the story set up.

Like I said, I'm sure that's not actually what happened, and that's fine. My head canon is better anyway.
Click to expand...

I guess my original statement was incomplete but the point I was trying to make was that it felt like Hickman was a little over enthusiastic in those first few monthly comics that set up the series in the first place. And I’m sure a lot of that was editorially driven, given how successful Secret Wars was and Marvel was still riding high from that momentum. But Hox and Pox felt cursed from the beginning because they set up these massive stakes right out of the gate, to suddenly hardly any stakes since the X-Men no longer have to worry about being injured or killed, so whenever they are sent on a mission it feels like it’s just to lay the groundwork for overly involved story elements that Hickman has plans for, but might very well never come to fruition because he’s pulling too many threads at once.

When season one of X-Men 97 came out, it felt like that was a referendum on anything to do with Hickman’s X-Men and people were desperate for X-Men stories that had a more grounded feel and I can’t blame them. The X-Men are not characters from a Final Fantasy game and should not be treated as such because those types of epic stories and mythologies do not fit within the X-Men’s framework. Their books have always been an allegory for the civil rights movement and everything that encompasses. They want to be treated as equals. Writers don’t have to invent new and convoluted ways to tell those stories because you are just inviting catastrophe once you lose your core readership.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Stoopid_Sandwich said:
I guess my original statement was incomplete but the point I was trying to make was that it felt like Hickman was a little over enthusiastic in those first few monthly comics that set up the series in the first place. And I’m sure a lot of that was editorially driven, given how successful Secret Wars was and Marvel was still riding high from that momentum. But Hox and Pox felt cursed from the beginning because they set up these massive stakes right out of the gate, to suddenly hardly any stakes since the X-Men no longer have to worry about being injured or killed, so whenever they are sent on a mission it feels like it’s just to lay the groundwork for overly involved story elements that Hickman has plans for, but might very well never come to fruition because he’s pulling too many threads at once.

When season one of X-Men 97 came out, it felt like that was a referendum on anything to do with Hickman’s X-Men and people were desperate for X-Men stories that had a more grounded feel and I can’t blame them. The X-Men are not characters from a Final Fantasy game and should not be treated as such because those types of epic stories and mythologies do not fit within the X-Men’s framework. Their books have always been an allegory for the civil rights movement and everything that encompasses. They want to be treated as equals. Writers don’t have to invent new and convoluted ways to tell those stories because you are just inviting catastrophe once you lose your core readership.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Having not read the stuff that came after I can't really comment on it. I'm not surprised it couldn't deliver. All I'm saying is that I was assuming HOX/POX was an X-Men story in the vein of Phoenix Saga, Brood Saga, Inferno, or AoA. One of the more spacey, weird, supernatural stories that maybe has elements of the ground state of the mutant metaphor, but is at it's core more of a scifi or fantasy story. From that vantage point the things like resurrection didn't bother me because to me you set that stuff up so that your heroes feel stronger in the beginning when you plan to dismantle them over the course of the story.

But yeah, it was very weird, and there was a lot going on, and I'm sure trying to land that plane would have been rough. Again, not surprised it didn't go anywhere.
 
JakeEkiss said:
Having not read the stuff that came after I can't really comment on it. I'm not surprised it couldn't deliver. All I'm saying is that I was assuming HOX/POX was an X-Men story in the vein of Phoenix Saga, Brood Saga, Inferno, or AoA. One of the more spacey, weird, supernatural stories that maybe has elements of the ground state of the mutant metaphor, but is at it's core more of a scifi or fantasy story. From that vantage point the things like resurrection didn't bother me because to me you set that stuff up so that your heroes feel stronger in the beginning when you plan to dismantle them over the course of the story.

But yeah, it was very weird, and there was a lot going on, and I'm sure trying to land that plane would have been rough. Again, not surprised it didn't go anywhere.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you would be correct. and from my perspective from other X fans, they friggin loved HOX/POX cause it was shaking things up, it was breaking the status quo.

There were questions of "How does their new ethno state work" and they never got fully explored because Hickman left cause the sales were better than ever.

Like, i think most fans wanted them to fall in their own hubris, but instead, sentinels and others attacked, destroyed krakoa. Now they're back to the same old same old.
 
JakeEkiss said:
. From that vantage point the things like resurrection didn't bother me because to me you set that stuff up so that your heroes feel stronger in the beginning when you plan to dismantle them over the course of the story.
Click to expand...

They did this, but they also kept switching stakes and there was so much going on.

I think it might have been better if Hickman just had one or two titles and was left alone. The rest of the writers getting a say and exploring everything else muddied the whole saga for me.

I liked that it was shaking the status quo but there were too many status quos going on and just kept building and building without ever bringing anything home.
 
altcunningham said:
I think it might have been better if Hickman just had one or two titles and was left alone. The rest of the writers getting a say and exploring everything else muddied the whole saga for me.
Click to expand...
I will say the reason I didn't keep reading is because I decided to try Excalibur first and it seemed both trying to keep pace with Hickman's stuff while basically being off doing the mystic Avalon thing and I just wasn't into it.

Mainline Marvel/DC often have the problem of pulling too many other books into the obit of their main books for continuity and it almost always hurts every book involved.
 
Chooch555 said:
They also never really addressed that resurrection wasn't actually resurrection - it was bringing out a back-up copy. The original being is still dead.
Click to expand...
This was the bit I assumed they'd use as one of the levers for a final Moira reboot. That they were just killing new copies over and over, and that there actually was signal loss over time. A jpeg saved over and over.
 
altcunningham said:
I got in so many arguments about this in discussion that I stopped bringing it up.
Click to expand...
The thing I expected to happen at some point (again, I only read HOX/POX, maybe they did this?) was that someone would be presumed dead who wasn't, and you'd get the backup, which would make the ghoulishness of the issue apparent, necessitating the final reset.

You can see how much of this storyline I filled in just from those first two series. And if it didn't go that way I'm happy I skipped the rest. I do still think it was a super interesting setup.
 
I want to say there was an example of it, but I don't remember. I do remember - I want to say it was Pixie and Glob - having a discussion about one of them not having "popped their death cherry" and then killing themselves to have the experience. Which... just killed the original. It was gross.
 
JakeEkiss said:
The thing I expected to happen at some point (again, I only read HOX/POX, maybe they did this?) was that someone would be presumed dead who wasn't, and you'd get the backup, which would make the ghoulishness of the issue apparent, necessitating the final reset.

You can see how much of this storyline I filled in just from those first two series. And if it didn't go that way I'm happy I skipped the rest. I do still think it was a super interesting setup.
Click to expand...
Oh, this just came up in a real life convo but I had to tell you.

Re: the back up copies. It is a plot point when they want it. Beast is 80s Beast, as example. I forgot that detail.
 
There were no stakes in my opinion Mastermold/Mothermold/Nimrodtech/Robot Dominion just cranks out more sentinels of various types in a self-sustaining fashion to go up against the Mutants who get re-hatched time and again like pod people. Basically one Xerox printer fighting its biological equivalent to the death. Imagine going to a vending machine after every mission and it just spits out another copy of your dead teammate you just lost. Then there was evil Beast with his army of Wolverine copies.

Basically the only stakes were if the mutants were to lose their "server" storing all the "copies" of their "essences."

Fine if people liked/loved it. It just was very contrary to everything I loved about X-Men, including their individual personalities being markedly different in many cases. Mostly why it never resonated with me. Between that time period and Marvel's self sabotage of the X-Books (shoehorning the Inhumans) during Disney's embargo during the film rights battle, I think editorial has spent a lot of time wandering in the wilderness (if in fact they still care and don't just focus on other properties instead).
 
yeah, for me the resurrection protocols never bothered me cause i mean. Death was never the stakes in marvel comics. It made explicit what has been a joke for years, that death is a revolving door, and I think that's both fun and funny.

And like, yeah technically it's printing out copies, but it's not like a multiplicity situation. It's more of a reloading a save file.

Then it was funny in the AXE event, which was pretty good, when the mutants had to reveal "Okay, yes, we can bring humans back to life"

sadly there wasn't much enough of a fallout from that
 
I’m gonna be that guy. None of this comic talk is remotely relevant to the discussion of Gamerverse figures. I get that conversations drift, but we also have topics and subforums for a reason, right? As someone who loves the toys but rarely reads comics, this all feels like a slog to scroll past trying to see what’s up. Anyway, back to lurking, now!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top