Marvel Legends Gamerverse

[PantherCult]

I get that, not all tastes are the same but the company has to decide who to cater to more... if there are more universe builders like me than , specific scene guys like you, or even if its the same number, they make more money appealing to me because I buld the entire universe rather than specific snap shots.

Still, I think there is room for some artist specific stuff for characters we will get in the line dozens more times,. Iron Man, Spider-Man, Wolverine - go artist specific, no sweat.

The conflict comes in when say you want a very artist specific Calypso to go with artist specific Spidey, but that maybe alienates a bunch of people who want un-stylized Calypso for their broader display... they likely have to do the thing that appeals to the most customers.

 

[hmmberto]

This is a good way to put it. The Marvel Legends line contains the breadth of Mattel's wrestling lines—or at least what I understand of those lines. You have your budget releases (retro cards), the mid-tier offerings (BAF waves), and then a range of more expensive stuff (deluxe, Maximum, Gamerverse, MCU, etc.).

I like the Vulcan body, but I completely agree with you otherwise. Marvel Legends has lagged behind its competition (Classified, Jada, and third parties) for years. The articulation is antiquated. Of the ladies they showed off yesterday, Lady Deadpool is impressive. Maybe Luna Snow. But Marrinna and Psylocke hardly move better than a female Marvel Legend did in 2014. I think the only improvement is double-jointed elbows. Where are the butterfly joints? Double torso articulation?

You can't tell me one of these figures is significantly more posable than the other:

100%, and that's a great comparison. There are other non-articulation things about Marrina that are an improvement over that Carol, but the articulation comparison is a shame. Proper torso articulation and butterflies should be mandatory on every figure barring something in the design that prevents them being implemented.

 

[cmoney]

I fell out of ML pretty much completely on account of all the exclusives and re-dos and two-packs and whatnot. The comics are my first love, and I just got bored with all the uninspired re-use and increasing costs for figures that weren't wowing me. But these Rivals sculpts are honestly tempting me as just a fun one-off kind of interpretive take on these characters without the baggage of wanting every costume/variant/etc. Most likely the price will turn me off though, and I have no need for half of the characters in the two-packs already.

 

[Alt]

I get that, not all tastes are the same but the company has to decide who to cater to more...

I collect the line, so I can work with it either way. Like anything, If they did do it, people could just choose not to buy it. Or I'll personally come to people's houses and piss in their Cheerios if they want to be upset. Let me know how much to hydrate.

I will say that whatever the current house style is Hasbro has going on, is less interesting to me than what it was a couple years ago. I never got an answer as to who's doing the portraits now. It's not Mayshelf these days, is it? There's just something aggressively Greg Land Tapioca about much of it.

 

[nik]

I collect the line, so I can work with it either way. Like anything, If they did do it, people could just choose not to buy it. Or I'll personally come to people's houses and piss in their Cheerios if they want to be upset. Let me know how much to hydrate.

I will say that whatever the current house style is Hasbro has going on, is less interesting to me than what it was a couple years ago. I never got an answer as to who's doing the portraits now. It's not Mayshelf these days, is it? There's just something aggressively Greg Land Tapioca about much of it.

I know Paul Harding still does a fair amount of sculpting for Legends. He's also doing the sculpts for the NECA McDonald's and Muppets lines. He tends to post on social media which head sculpts are his. I think Evil Hawkeye is his most recent.

 

[Alt]

I know Paul Harding still does a fair amount of sculpting for Legends. He's also doing the sculpts for the NECA McDonald's and Muppets lines. He tends to post on social media which head sculpts are his. I think Evil Hawkeye is his most recent.

I know the name. I like most of the head sculpts. I think he makes the ones I like.

Between the head sculpts and where they have landed with digital print and the way they keep improving, I think they're actually a market leader.

But it's the bodies. Obviously that's where the budget gets cut as far as details and extra kit. But there's something about a lot of the new male bodies that feels off to my proportional desires. Like if it was a video game character Creator, I would just be nudging things over two or four notches. Never three though, because being audhd makes that impossible.

And I thought we were getting somewhere with that Phoenix body for the ladies but I guess we only roll that out for special occasions.

We get good product when they can.

Admittedly a lot of this is me, I'm just over hyper real with my video games and toys and comic art. I love a good figure that looks ripped from the source material. Domestically, McFarlane has issues, but I appreciate the figures that look torn from panels and homaging keystone artists.

 

[Alt]

Still, I think there is room for some artist specific stuff for characters we will get in the line dozens more times,. Iron Man, Spider-Man, Wolverine - go artist specific, no sweat.

Thinking on it more, we're also in a different reality as far as industry and the economy go.

As much as I loved the stylized old figures, those came with ridiculous bases and props. Remember all the Spider-Man artist figures that came a JJJ and desk, or a window, or a whole sidewalk corner?

They were getting original sculpts. They were probably going to repaint like once, in addition to all that.

And that was almost the whole industry at that point.

Someone in the know needs to tell me what happened across the board, because I'm just not familiar with that history and how we got here.

 

[hmmberto]

Significantly higher manufacturing costs (labor), rising materials costs, higher licensing fees, unfettered corporate greed. Just a guess.

 

[Misfit]

I know the name. I like most of the head sculpts. I think he makes the ones I like.

Between the head sculpts and where they have landed with digital print and the way they keep improving, I think they're actually a market leader.

But it's the bodies. Obviously that's where the budget gets cut as far as details and extra kit. But there's something about a lot of the new male bodies that feels off to my proportional desires. Like if it was a video game character Creator, I would just be nudging things over two or four notches. Never three though, because being audhd makes that impossible.

And I thought we were getting somewhere with that Phoenix body for the ladies but I guess we only roll that out for special occasions.

We get good product when they can.

Admittedly a lot of this is me, I'm just over hyper real with my video games and toys and comic art. I love a good figure that looks ripped from the source material. Domestically, McFarlane has issues, but I appreciate the figures that look torn from panels and homaging keystone artists.

I think most of the sculptors are freelance like Harding. In his case, it was years ago in response to his sculpt for the Morph portraits that came with the VHS box release that he referenced a Legends "House" style as his goal for the sculpt. He phrased it in such a way that it was ludicrous to think he'd do it any other way as I'm guessing fans were complaining online that it didn't look like the cartoon. I don't know if such an edict comes from Hasbro when they commission these things or if that's just his approach. Given the size of the company and cohesiveness of the line, I'm guessing it's what Hasbro wants though for a guy who's been around the block like Harding they may know they don't even have to tell him that and he's just going to give them what they're looking for.

 

[JRoug]

Thinking on it more, we're also in a different reality as far as industry and the economy go.

As much as I loved the stylized old figures, those came with ridiculous bases and props. Remember all the Spider-Man artist figures that came a JJJ and desk, or a window, or a whole sidewalk corner?

They were getting original sculpts. They were probably going to repaint like once, in addition to all that.

And that was almost the whole industry at that point.

Someone in the know needs to tell me what happened across the board, because I'm just not familiar with that history and how we got here.

Rising costs and corporate greed have something to do with it, but here are some other factors:

ToyBiz was a small mobile unit - they didn't have a ton of overhead and didn't need to worry about cutting into Marvel product origination to making up for sales shortcomings of other lines they produced. Very different at Hasbro.

The relationship with Marvel & ToyBiz was entirely different. The current Hasbro / Disney deal is both financially and contractually onerous in Disney's favor. It's Hasbro's to lose, but they're chickenshit, especially about Star wars, which has been part of their DNA so long they can't imagine letting it go, even as it drags down their bottom line. Disney hasn't delivered content that's meaningfully driven sales for either brand since Mando. They could've had DC and cut Disney loose, which IMO, would've been smarter even if it killed Marvel Legends and SW Black - because the opportunity to get it back after a rest would've come around again.

2000's retail environment vs today. The loss of sales to TRU and Kay-Bee has not been recaptured online and neither target or Wal-mart GAF about these lines. They do NOTHING to market Pulse to normal human beings, a huge mistake since the big boxes are very likely to cut back on what they're carrying as prices rise and other, more saleable and profitable products can take that real estate.

Neverending stream of bad leadership at top of Hasbro for over a decade. They are not hiring experts, they're hiring guys from P&G - typical corporate nonsense "let's reconfigure the paradigm" - FEH. How about "let's sell some toys"?

 

[TheSameIdiot]

The relationship with Marvel & ToyBiz was entirely different. The current Hasbro / Disney deal is both financially and contractually onerous in Disney's favor. It's Hasbro's to lose, but they're chickenshit, especially about Star wars, which has been part of their DNA so long they can't imagine letting it go, even as it drags down their bottom line. Disney hasn't delivered content that's meaningfully driven sales for either brand since Mando. They could've had DC and cut Disney loose, which IMO, would've been smarter even if it killed Marvel Legends and SW Black - because the opportunity to get it back after a rest would've come around again.

I'm not sure I fully agree with you, but you raise some interesting questions.

If Hasbro had given up Marvel and Star Wars around the same time Mattel lost the DC license, they probably could've gotten it back at a discount, especially because Mattel was still shit at making toys then.

Star Wars isn't the brand it was 10, 20, or 40 years ago. You're right that Disney has done little to increase its profile. I might argue it's worth less today than at any point since 1977.

I think The Mandalorian was a goldmine for Hasbro, though. How many Mandos have they released? How much Grogu merch?

2000's retail environment vs today. The loss of sales to TRU and Kay-Bee has not been recaptured online and neither target or Wal-mart GAF about these lines. They do NOTHING to market Pulse to normal human beings, a huge mistake since the big boxes are very likely to cut back on what they're carrying as prices rise and other, more saleable and profitable products can take that real estate.

You're not wrong, but I'm not sure how much control Hasbro has over the situation. TRU and KB went out of business because the toy industry became niche. Toys were replaced by video games, social media, and constant parental attention. (I could go on a real Old Guy Rant™ about how the average kid has almost no alone time compared to previous generations. Even in the '90s, my parents gave me a Batman toy and expected me to entertain myself for the evening. Today, people consider that tantamount to neglect.)

Action figures are an old guy hobby now. In the past, I compared it to model trains. I don't think any amount of marketing would change that. You can't force people to buy action figures any more than a prescription drug commercial can force me to have the condition it's treating.

 

[Alt]

Don't forget there used to be avenues with Suncoast and Tower, etc, for the smaller (then) companies like NECA and Mezco and Moore Action, in addition to the big dogs.

 

[Hbhf]

Thinking on it more, we're also in a different reality as far as industry and the economy go.

As much as I loved the stylized old figures, those came with ridiculous bases and props. Remember all the Spider-Man artist figures that came a JJJ and desk, or a window, or a whole sidewalk corner?

They were getting original sculpts. They were probably going to repaint like once, in addition to all that.

And that was almost the whole industry at that point.

Someone in the know needs to tell me what happened across the board, because I'm just not familiar with that history and how we got here.

Others mentioned the poor leadership at Hasbro and problems with Disney, but on the economic front it’s a few different things.

China was at one point known for being an extremely cheap place to manufacture products, but as they became an economic powerhouse wages for Chinese workers began to rise.

The price of oil has also risen since then, making plastic more expensive to produce and is probably a major reason why we no longer get things like ornate display bases or giant BAFs.

And of course, good ole fashioned inflation.

Many of these changes were starting to become apparent even in the final year or two of ToyBiz. You started seeing more body reuse not just across Legends, but also the sister lines like Spider-Man and X-Men Classics.

 

[Chooch555]

I think number of units produced due to demand (and hence more stores carrying them) is the big factor. I would easily believe that they sold 10x Spider-Man Classics as they do say the next Secret Wars Spider-Man. You can spread the cost of a screaming JJJ over 100s of thousands rather than 10s of thousands.

 

[hmmberto]

Finally got Marvel Cosmic Invasion in the mail - a Christmas gift from my wife, but I'm stubborn and wanted to wait for the physical release. Haven't played it yet but I'd like to reiterate that this seems as good a reason as any to get new figures of Annihilus, Phyla-Vell, Beta Ray Bill, hippie Nova, etc. Not looking for Rivals-level accuracy - I don't think this game was big enough to warrant that, and I don't want 16-bit Marvel Legends anyway - just some new characters with a good tie-in.