Doctor Who Discussion

There is some speculation that the season was planned with Ruby as the companion and the switch to Belinda came late, which kind of explains why Conrad was connected to Ruby and Belinda suddenly had Mrs. Flood as a neighbor and a few other plot points. But at the same time Ruby couldn't have been dating Conrad in the Doctor-lite episode if they couldn't get back to Earth. I am curious about that companion change as it seemed to come out of the blue.

I agree, the visual in the Eurovision episode when the arena decompressed was pretty amazing, and I do think they undercut it by saving everyone - I kind of felt as though the fury of the The Doctor would have been more justified if the audience really had perished.

I thought the whole barbershop episode was a misfire - I'm not sure the plot or motivation made too much sense.

The Rani was honestly not that interesting of a character her first two appearances I felt, so the idea of bringing he back is kind of meh. I do find the reliance on characters from the classic era really odd given it was branded as a soft reboot and it really hasn't been. Feels like they have a lot to maybe wrap up in the finale.

The future if the show really is up the air I think - I think Disney is done, if for no other reason than Doctor Who never seems to be in the banner of things to watch as a new episode anymore, not even Saturday morning when it appears. That they have given up promoting it tells me they have moved on already.
 
Schizm said:
The greatest time travel wish for Who fans is to see Tennant/Smith/Capaldi/Whittaker/Gatwa written by other writers. At least it's consistent! :)
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I find your statement of truth to be insulting and will have to ask you to step outside.
 
I did it to myself again. Finally got to Lucky Day and really liked it.
For the most part I really enjoy stories that show how normal humans handle Whovian threats or just exist in that world. Until an absorbaloff comes along, I guess. But at the very end, when the Doctor snaps Conrad back into his cell, and the old woman approaches the cell door, I very briefly got excited about the idea that he returned him to his cell 70 years in the future and that was an old Ruby coming to greet him. I had just enough time to think "hell yeah, stick it to him!" before they revealed it was Mrs. Flood who I don't care about at all. I need to stop anticipating endings, because I quickly become attached to my made up story and wind up disappointed by what actually happens.
 
Welp.

I was looking for good discussion of this season earlier this week and stupidly tried Reddit which successfully ruined most of the twists of this finale. I HATE spoilers!

I would have been really surprised to see Billie Piper at the end. Instead, it's "huh".

Did this episode make sense? I like the conceit that The Doctor isn't aware of a timeline change - but he's Timey-Wimey enough that his doubt and treatment of Ruby felt out of character. Also, the crib was still *right there*. The ever-diminishing puffer jacket was a very cool trick, though.

So he sacrificed himself to bring back a child that never actually existed? What is this weird trend in media lately - Wanda destroying reality and sacrificing a real child for fake children, the other show/movie that did the same thing that I'm blanking on right now?

Why is Ncuti done? IS he done? He's had, what, 18 episodes at this point? Two of which he was barely in? We should know this Doctor very well at this point and we barely do and now he's gone. I appreciated seeing Thirteen and her wig - doesn't make sense, but nothing in this episode did.

Speaking of - Belinda mentioned being caught in a "time explosion" and 15 went all through her life - that never happened onscreen, right? That was an off-screen adventure, or one made up for this episode?

I liked Belinda but these last two episodes felt like total retcons of her life. Sure, get that Star Certificate into the cosmos - that's the loose end that needed sewing up. But the rest of her life is WHAT?

Poppy - they should have cast a different child since she ended up having zero relation to Space Babies. And why does Belinda, who has no relation to anything in Space Babies, have a Space Baby-looking child? That was needlessly, endlessly confusing.

Also, why did we get Rose not-Tyler but not Catherine Tate?! And then Rose did nothing?

Nice to see Anita, but she did turn into a doorstop by the end. And "The Boss" - oh yay, another cryptic tease. What episode did they clip Matt Smith from? I got so excited to see his face!

I cheered when Omega ate Archie - hope she's gone for good. She was better in this episode, I'll give her that, and her plan would be good minus the genocide. Have we known Time Lords were sterile - was that in the Whittaker years? I didn't know that. Glad Flood survived. Stupid of 15 to just leave the Vindicator on the floor and how boring convenient the TARDIS was just down that corridor. No need to be clever.

Also, how did he and Ruby know to kiss the baby to be granted a wish? Ruby got a raw deal (and an interesting reshoot wig), but I still really enjoy Millie Gibson.

The plot of this episode was just bad surrounded by excellent performances (with the exception of Archie). Well, the UNIT crew had some bad lines - but the building turning into a weapon and turning is the pure fun of good Who. Not sure how elevators work in that building but timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly.
 
So what the fuck! I had NO idea Billie Piper was coming back! Is she going to be playing the Doctor now? Has the Doctor borrowed the face of an old companion? Oh my God, if so I am SO fucking happy. I love Billie Piper and Rose was my favorite modern companion and fuck me will it be wonderful to see Billie on Doctor Who, AS THE DOCTOR if that is what is happening here.
 
Disappointed Gatwa is leaving, I haven't totally liked his performance but he was getting better. Mainly disappointed because I feel like his leaving (and whatever sidelined Ruby for part of the year) possibly skuttled the overarching storyline... I really think that this was not the expected end to his run and it seemed thrown together. Like ending a trilogy after part 2 with an epilog.

The whole storyline was a little confusing - supposedly they needed reality to implode to get to Omega, but I am not sure that actually happened, and why was the world was going to blow up at midnight? And Omega/Rani resolved too easily. I feel that part seemed rushed, but then I thought the episode was going to redeem itself with Poppy disappearing (that sequence with the jacket folding to nothing was great) and then when Jodie showed up that maybe something truly interesting would happen (she was great in her few minutes), but the reason he needed to regenerate seemed really forced.

I still think this was to be about Ruby and Belinda got shoehorned in, and there would be one more season where we find out who the Boss is (could the Boss be a Foreman...?) and there is more to Ruby than meets the eye. The whole "foundling" baby (Poppy) being something Ruby would attach to makes too much sense, and I am still not sure if we are supposed to know what is real for Belinda - the apartment she lived in with roommates and seemed to be on her own, or that she is a single Mom wanting to get home to her daughter, is reality still broken. She also was there when they first met Poppy, and Ruby has been the one to do odd things like create snow and recall past realities, so this all seems to fit her better, even Flood being her neighbor.

If you told me that Ruby was going to be the wish baby and the Rani was who left her on Ruby Road, I'd believe it.

Curious if BP is actually the next Doctor or did the Bad Wolf or the Moment jump in mid-regeneration....
 
Ruby being the wish baby would make a heckuva lot more sense, if she was a sleeper agent or something, sent to distract The Doctor with a mystery. Of course, it was such a good plan it also distracted Sutekh. And then Ruby getting introduced to all of the pantheon would kinda get reverse-engineered into roping them all together/waking her up to her power? Makes a lot more sense than what we got.

And since Ruby/Conrad would need rejiggering, what could have been interesting if Ruby is switched out for Donna's child Rose. Would have given her SOMETHING to do this season.

Saw someone post a rumor that RTD may not be on good terms with Tate and Tennant - I certainly hope that's not true, but would explain some of the weirdness of what all just happened on screen. And what didn't.
 
RTD definitely had issues with Eccleston, so at some point you start to wonder who is the problem, given I also think something went down with Gibson essentially being replaced by Vethu two weeks before filming started.

RTD also mentioned he had 6 scripts written/in progress already for and S3 - more fuel I think that he expected a 3 season run and arc...
 
Which is sort of idiotic when he had a 26 episode order. And apparently used five of those episodes for the new spin-off? And if your lead is only under contract for that amount of episodes, maybe use them more wisely?

I'm shocked at how much say UK actors and producers get on their shows, sometimes. On one hand, awesome, but on the other, what?
 
It's been almost four months with no update on this show... HMMMMM...

But I did stumble upon this today: Fourteenth Doctor & The Meep

Looks great! If I felt like importing anything. And only two years late. The Meep is great, but I just want a new Donna figure. She wore the same outfit for three episodes - surely that's doable!
 
I suspect unless The spinoff does well (or is at least well received) that Who is on hiatus for awhile, and Davis will be out. Not sure if they can pull the show back to lower budget, lower stakes, and maybe a bit harder sci-fi and have it be popular.

NOTE - the following is some rambling fan fiction outline, feel free to skip...

I have a probably very bad idea which would be to do a season with Jo Martin as the Doctor set between Troughton and Pertwee with her more unscrupulous adventures as an agent in the shadow group. Have the Master also be on this team and more ruthless, and they are kind of friends but not on the same page in terms of methods. During this time, both the Doctor and the Master learn that the Master was the real Timeless Child and it is why he was driven partly insane from the forced regens and the torture and all that (and he is "the Master" as in the original template) and learning this creates/directs his hatred for the Time Lords. Have it be that The Doctor had been set up by the Timelords even as child (without knowing it) to keep an eye on him (he is "the Doctor" tasked with fixing/curing the Master), and that was why the Doctor was allowed to freely roam the universe at times, partly as a check on the Master. At the end of the series they switch the information so that if ever discovered it would seem to be the Doctor, not the Master, who was purported to be the Timeless Child in hopes of reducing the Master's wrath, and the Timelords try to manipulate their memories again (have this be on orders of someone like Rassilon, and why the Doctor never quite trusts him at times). Maybe she protect the Master and quits the shadow unit, but they capture her and force her to regenerate in Pertwee, remove her memories, and trap him on Earth with the Master for a bit.

Then the next series the new Doctor learns all of this, finds the Master, fixes the Cyber Time Lord stupidity and reinstates Galifrey/Timelords again, and gets the Master back to his/her parents and reality, making him sane and whole and happy finally, and reveals the truth to the Timelords causing a bit of a rethinking of his people's history as they have a reckoning of their behavior, how they pick Timelords, all of that, and explore some Galifrey lore and reset things a bit, so the Doctor is now free to go back to just flying around, and maybe even inspired some more Timelords to be proactive in helping out without any agenda or Timelord plan....
 
fac said:
and he is "the Master" as in the original template
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I've heard this Timeless Child theory before, but not this specific interpretation. I really like it.

I'm otherwise okay with the current status quo. I'm not normally crazy for writers just undoing previous writers' stuff just because they didn't like it.
 
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I felt it undermined the character too much to have the Doctor be that special. I know they were hinting at that at the end of the McCoy seasons, but the character works best as having rejected the norms of the Timelords to help people.

It makes a lot more sense to me that what they described - finding some poor abandoned kid, torturing the kid, generically engineering the kid, etc., - would lead to a psychopath who wants to destroy the Timelords and hates the universe. Even the idea that looking into the Time Vortex that supposedly drove the Master nuts (the constant drumming) might have been him seeing where he came from, like a call home.

That storyline of being that kid does nothing to make the Doctor who they are in my opinion.

But I get it about not retconning the writing of others - although Moffat undid the Doctor being the last of the Timelords by reinstating Galifrey, and that was a great moment.
 
@fac, yes to all of that. I only meant undoing stories only because you don't like them. The return of Galifray was a good story on its own, so Fletch-Approved. Your notes on the Timeless Master sounds like another good story.

You may have to catch me up on the CyberLords, though. I found it a clever plot point, but didn't they all die at the end? What didn't you like about them?
 
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